Gallup: Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World

[Hans Blaster]

I've had a discussion like this with you before. Your position basically boils down to saying you don't know anything about the subject, you're not interested in finding out, but you're going to give your opinions anyway.

No. What my position is that given what I do know about critical theory and the ways people complain about it, I find "anti-CT" rantings to be overblown and bordering on paranoia. The secondary position I made here was that it doesn't impact me and I don't use it.

 

[BCP1928]

To an extent, but it's been a long, slow, process towards an increasingly fractured society.

Yeah, we're seeing a shift towards more peer-based control systems and a shame-paradigm rather than a guilt one that traditional authorities made their bread and butter. In regard to religiosity, Christianity in particular, it calls for a re-contextualization of the gospel message away from the traditional guilt and punishment, to one that emphasizes the freedom from shame and the endurance of public humiliation Jesus went through on the cross. But too many of the religious authorities are either trying to abandon all principles and bend to public sentiments, or embracing a self-image that explains public irrelevance and dwindling church attendance as part of the cost of dicipleship.

Well, that certainly is explanatory. I wonder if you can see why?

 

[Fervent]

Well, that certainly is explanatory. I wonder if you can see why?

I have no idea what shadows that suspicious mind of yours is jumping at.

 

[BCP1928]

No. What my position is that given what I do know about critical theory and the ways people complain about it, I find "anti-CT" rantings to be overblown and bordering on paranoia. The secondary position I made here was that it doesn't impact me and I don't use it.

So far I have been unable to find out how anybody uses it. It's a theory and like all theories is descriptive rather than proscriptive. I want to see some applied Critical Theory.

 

[BCP1928]

I have no idea what shadows that suspicious mind of yours is jumping at.

Shadows? It's as clear as day. If religion is supposed to be about guilt and punishment and obedience to earthy authority why are you surprised that people are walking away from it?

 

[Fervent]

Shadows? It's as clear as day. If religion is supposed to be about guilt and punishment and obedience to earthy authority why are you surprised that people are walking away from it?

Yeah, you're misunderstanding what I've said. My statement is about the current gospel messaging that is dominant in Western culture with its focus on guilt of penal violations and an absolution of that guilt based on Jesus' death. It's an issue of social context, not what religion is "supposed to be about."

 

[BCP1928]

Yeah, you're misunderstanding what I've said. My statement is about the current gospel messaging that is dominant in Western culture with its focus on guilt of penal violations and an absolution of that guilt based on Jesus' death. It's an issue of social context, not what religion is "supposed to be about."

OK, and "current Gospel messaging" is what people are currently walking away from.

 

[Fervent]

OK, and "current Gospel messaging" is what people are currently walking away from.

Yeah, which is why I suggested a need for contextualization that is sensitive to the cultural paradigm that dominates our culture, i.e. emphasizing the elements that are important to people dealing with shame and social censure.

 

[Larniavc]

Most are somewhere between stage 1 and stage 2. We already see blasphemy laws starting to be enforced in the UK covertly...won't be long until Islam has a privileged status there, and then they'll start pressing towards stage 3.

SO nowhere, What a surprise.

 

[Larniavc]

Good question...Taft?

That and the fact that everyone believes congress sucks, but keep sending the same people back year after year because they don't think its their guys doing it.

It's like grocery stores where 5 companies are responsible for like 90% of the available food...the illusion of choice.

That's capitalism.

 

[Fervent]

That's capitalism.

Not really, because it is government interference that has facilitated the situation and enforced it not pure market forces.

 

[Larniavc]

Which 'idea' are you referring to? Nietzsche's concept of ressentiment ?

No; Christianity.

 

[Fervent]

SO nowhere, What a surprise.

You can ignore the canary if you'd like, but that doesn't remove the danger.

 

[Larniavc]

Yet the malevolent force that the decline in religiosity is being attributed to is painted as being uniquely embodied in Democrats and the Democratic party.

I does seem that sometimes people have to accept that the thing they value so much is not valued by everyone else, doesn't it?

 

[Larniavc]

You can ignore the canary if you'd like, but that doesn't remove the danger.

We don't have a canary because there is no gas.

 

[Fervent]

We don't have a canary because there is no gas.

Denial doesn't address the issue. By the time Western democracies start to fall, it'll be too late. But you are free to ignore the historical patterns and warning signs.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It was bound to happen. The internal contradictions in American society are coming to a head and the old consensus is dying- the center cannot hold. Fascists are awful, but the liberal consensus also was overbearing with its own brand of hollow moralism.

I don't think things bode well for America, but I also admit that might be a little too pessimistic. As long as social inequality continues to grow in the US, people will naturally gravitate towards these kinds of extremist movements and demagogues.

American government has been secularized for 200 years. American society has been rapidly secularizing for the last 50-60 years. The American *people* have been secularizing for the last 20 years. With that, church attendance and religiosity has declined in America.

In the late 20th century, the "ultras" who reacted most strongly to those trends could at least feel comforted that the large portion of the American people were Christians of some religiosity that were preferred politicians referencing their religion and being inspired by it in law and policy. The base assumption of the US as a "Christian nation" held even as their vision of America slowly faded from reality. They built their defensive institutions (religious schools and homeschooling, etc.) often with legal backing from politicians. (School vouchers, etc.)

Here in the 21st century, the ultras (many now Christian nationalists) and their allies dominate the GOP, but (to connect to the topic of the thread), the fading of religiosity in America makes their chance of gaining any power increasingly less likely. They had a chance to make their move with MAGA. Trump attracted a lot of non-involved voters, most of whom were at least not hostile to the Christian nationalists aims. For the second time around, They organized their Project 2025 to do not only the conservative wishlist of the last 40 years, but all of the Christian nationalist things.

If they don't act now, they'll never get the chance again given the decline of Christianity.

 

[Larniavc]

Denial doesn't address the issue.

Imagining gas where there is none does nobody any good. Christians having to tolerate other faiths is a good lesson.

 

[Larniavc]

But you are free to ignore the historical patterns and warning signs.

Please illuminate them for me? In your own words if you could?

 

[BCP1928]

Not really, because it is government interference that has facilitated the situation and enforced it not pure market forces.

Exactly. It's not capitalism, not free market capitalism anyway. The technical term is Neoliberalism.