Trump pardons Giuliani, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, all fake electors for their attempt to overturn 2020 election, pardon official says

[MarkSB]

We keep trying to do this .... however the corruption is wide and deep. Government is way way too big ... the bigger something gets the more difficult it is to manage and/or have proper oversight. The only way corrupt practices will be curtailed is if the people involved in them are actually prosecuted for their dastardly deeds and so far that hasn't come into fruition.

While I agree that absolute pardon power is something presidents should not have, and that there is a long list of pardons from Biden that appear questionable - most of them appear to be much more petty crimes. At face value, they also don’t appear to be pardons that Biden would have benefited from politically (though digging deeper might reveal otherwise).

The pardons being issued by Trump are high profile cases. We’re talking elections interference here - something that should be one of the most serious crimes.

The false equivalencies that Trump likes to dabble in are dangerous, and we should not buy into them. If you want pardon power taken away, then fine - but don’t let “they are all corrupt” be an excuse for every immoral action.

 

[A2SG]

No ... just saying they both gave pardons and that some on both sides are questionable ... at least Trumps pardons weren't signed with an auto pen ... to me that fact is highly suspicious

Couple things...first, you don't know the autopen wasn't used, even if by Trump himself. Second, of course, you also don't know that President Biden did not know or at least approve of the use of the autopen, assuming it was used in those cases. You'd have to prove it in either case, or it's just speculation and nothing more.

Further, as to the questionability of the respective pardons, Trump clearly pardoned people who acted illegally on his behalf, explicitly or implicitly, in his attempt to overturn the 2020 election. This includes his legal teams, those who engineered or participated in the fake elector scheme, and those who stormed the Capitol on January 6. The evidence for corruption in those cases is pretty clear and very blatant, considering the fact that, had he not approved of their illegal actions, he would have no reason to pardon them.

If there is any evidence that President Biden used his power of pardon to reward those who acted illegal on his behalf, that remains to be seen. Nothing has yet been put forth as evidence for this claim. Even in the case of his son, the fact that it's his son is enough to explain his reasoning without political corruption being involved.

But, that said, if anyone wishes to make the case that President Biden corruptly used the power of the pardon (or someone did so without his knowledge via autopen), then they need to make the case with evidence, not speculation or rumors. I wonder if anyone can.

-- A2SG, so far, speculation and rumor seems to be all anyone's got....

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Are you saying that Biden't corrupt pardons justify Trump's corrupt pardons?

I disagree.

I don't think most folks would say that one justifies the other...

I do, however, think that if a person sat quietly for one set of pardons (and didn't appear to be all that bothered by them), that would preclude them from feigning outrage and and getting all "hot & bothered" about another set of pardons.

So it's really the perceived hypocrisy that people are providing a rebuttal against.


Speaking personally, I have a love/hate relationship with pardons.

I understand why that power exists (as it's pretty much the only "check" on the judicial branch that comes from an external branch -- every other "check" on a judicial ruling comes from within the judicial branch itself)

But I would like to see that power refined just a bit... so that it exists less within the realm of "yeah, the did it, but meh, they're a close friend and family member, so I'm letting them off the hook" and bring it back more into the realm of "correct a mistake or overstep by the judicial branch".

 

[iluvatar5150]

No ... just saying they both gave pardons and that some on both sides are questionable ... at least Trumps pardons weren't signed with an auto pen ... to me that fact is highly suspicious

While I agree that absolute pardon power is something presidents should not have, and that there is a long list of pardons from Biden that appear questionable

You guys keep saying that some of Biden's pardons are sketchy, but you haven't named a single one.

Why not? Is it easier to just make claims rather than to do any actual reading?

The list has already been posted and it isn't big. It only took me a couple minutes to look over. The vast majority are for offenses that occurred 15+ years ago. The only recent-ish one that got me to raise an eyebrow was Geral Lundgarden. The other recent-ish ones were blanket pardons for people likely to be punitatively targeted by the incoming Trump administration (e.g. Biden family members, Mark Milley, Dr Fauci). You could probably argue that the pardons for his son and brother are questionable, but that's all I'm seeing. How is this in any way comparable to what Trump's done?

 

[Yttrium]

You guys keep saying that some of Biden's pardons are sketchy, but you haven't named a single one.

Well, I've named one before, namely pardoning his son. I haven't forgiven him for that.