Cursed is the heart of this people

[jonojim1337]

The archtypical Pharisee is everywhere around us. It’s interesting that Christ did spend a good part of his ministry exposing these people, explaining their doom. And just like Abraham said, if they do not believe the words of Moses, neither will they believe if one rises from the dead.

They’re good at trying one’s patience and faith. Is that the only reason why they’re here?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The archtypical Pharisee is everywhere around us. It’s interesting that Christ did spend a good part of his ministry exposing these people, explaining their doom. And just like Abraham said, if they do not believe the words of Moses, neither will they believe if one rises from the dead.

They’re good at trying one’s patience and faith. Is that the only reason why they’re here?

Depends on how one defines the characteristics and teachings of a modern day Pharisee. I would define them as religious, powerful, political, influential, legalist, tradition driven, self righteous and most of all hypocritical. Fortunately, none of these characteristics describe a Christian. That said, why would one come even close to trying your patience and faith?
Perhaps one is being tested. Stay, the course and put on the full armor of God.

Be blessed.

 

[jonojim1337]

Depends on how one defines the characteristics and teachings of a modern day Pharisee. I would define them as religious, powerful, political, influential, legalist, tradition driven, self righteous and most of all hypocritical. Fortunately, none of these characteristics describe a Christian. That said, why would one come even close to trying your patience and faith?
Perhaps one is being tested. Stay, the course and put on the full armor of God.

Be blessed.

I didn’t say modern day, I said archetypical. It’s someone who, for instance, would let the poor and lame beg at their doorstep and walk by them each day.

 

[partinobodycular]

I didn’t say modern day, I said archetypical. It’s someone who, for instance, would let the poor and lame beg at their doorstep and walk by them each day.

I'm pretty sure @Maria Billingsley understood what you were saying. She was simply conjecturing as to what that 'archetypical' Pharisee would look like in the modern day. In the U.S. at least, they'd almost certainly present themselves as a Christian. In fact I'm pretty sure that I've had conversations with a few here on CF.

 

[Robban]

The archtypical Pharisee is everywhere around us. It’s interesting that Christ did spend a good part of his ministry exposing these people, explaining their doom. And just like Abraham said, if they do not believe the words of Moses, neither will they believe if one rises from the dead.

They’re good at trying one’s patience and faith. Is that the only reason why they’re here?

From an artcle entitled, "The factions of the second Temple era."

Four, mainly, Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots and Sicari.

Pharisee from the Hebrew word Perushim "Separatist",

one explanation is that they seperated thenselves from the follies and pleasure of the world.

Ours Sages attribute the destruction of the second Temple to the baseless hate that prevailed among the Jews.

If the Jews had been united they would have merited G-d`s protection.

 

[jonojim1337]

I'm pretty sure @Maria Billingsley understood what you were saying. She was simply conjecturing as to what that 'archetypical' Pharisee would look like in the modern day. In the U.S. at least, they'd almost certainly present themselves as a Christian. In fact I'm pretty sure that I've had conversations with a few here on CF.

Ah yes, this reminds me of Christians who steal from Caesar, even under the guise of humility.

But going beyond just the religious pretext, I think we can see a personality from all walks of life, but showing the same traits.

 

[jonojim1337]

From an artcle entitled, "The factions of the second Temple era."

Four, mainly, Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots and Sicari.

Pharisee from the Hebrew word Perushim "Separatist",

one explanation is that they seperated thenselves from the follies and pleasure of the world.

Ours Sages attribute the destruction of the second Temple to the baseless hate that prevailed among the Jews.

If the Jews had been united they would have merited G-d`s protection.

From Wikipedia:

“No excavations are allowed on the Temple Mount, and no positively identified remains of the destroyed temple have been found.”

May I suggest to you the First temple was never in Palestine.

 

[Robban]

From Wikipedia:

“No excavations are allowed on the Temple Mount, and no positively identified remains of the destroyed temple have been found.”

May I suggest to you the First temple was never in Palestine.

That is not what the thread is about, it is about Pharisees.

And I myself never use wiki.

 

[jonojim1337]

That is not what the thread is about, it is about Pharisees.

It’s my thread

And I myself never use wiki.

Sure come back when you have the proof

 

[Robban]

It’s my thread


Sure come back when you have the proof

I wrote, I never use Wiki, because i never use wIki, do you understand?

 

[jonojim1337]

I wrote, I never use Wiki, because i never use wIki, do you understand?

Use whatever you want, just bring some proof of your claim

 

[Robban]

Use whatever you want, just bring some proof of your claim

What claim do you mean?

The article I quoted from is from Chabad.org, I could not see any author, probably because it is so well known.

Under the article were comments, one recieved a reply from Rabbi Shmary Brownstein.

So it is not my claim, it just is.

 

[partinobodycular]

But going beyond just the religious pretext, I think we can see a personality from all walks of life, but showing the same traits.

Can you tell me which traits you're referring to?

Also, can't this concept be extended to any set of traits? In that we can find people with these traits everywhere, not just in one specific subset of the population. For example, can we find Sadducees everywhere, or Zealots, or Samaritans?

And following this line of reasoning, should we really expect to find Christians only among the members of a specific religious group? Are we really to distinguish them solely by their adherence to a specific set of religious dogma? Or are there Christians everywhere? Even among the Gentiles, be they Muslims, or Buddhists, or agnostics, or atheists?

In other words, if we define people solely by their traits, i.e humility, honesty, patience, and mercy... who then are the Christians?

 

[jonojim1337]

What claim do you mean?

The article I quoted from is from Chabad.org, I could not see any author, probably because it is so well known.

Under the article were comments, one recieved a reply from Rabbi Shmary Brownstein.

So it is not my claim, it just is.

The claim about, the second temple being destroyed. It’s not destroyed. The first one suffered an attack. But it’s not in Palestine.

 

[jonojim1337]

Can you tell me which traits you're referring to?

Also, can't this concept be extended to any set of traits? In that we can find people with these traits everywhere, not just in one specific subset of the population. For example, can we find Sadducees everywhere, or Zealots, or Samaritans?

And following this line of reasoning, should we really expect to find Christians only among the members of a specific religious group? Are we really to distinguish them solely by their adherence to a specific set of religious dogma? Or are there Christians everywhere? Even among the Gentiles, be they Muslims, or Buddhists, or agnostics, or atheists?

Christ singled out the Pharisees a lot and the traits associated with them.

In other words, if we define people solely by their traits, i.e humility, honesty, patience, and mercy... who then are the Christians?

Sounds like fruits to me.

 

[partinobodycular]

Sounds like fruits to me.

Me too, except sometimes fruits are hard to recognize. Either because we, in our proclivity for what's socially acceptable overlook them... or because life in its indifference to our struggles does its best to hide them. But in judging the fruits of others leniency tends to be the best policy.

It's hard to judge a person who's shoes you've never walked in.

Nor is this to say that the fruits are the cause of one's status as a Christian, rather that they're simply a reflection thereof. I'm not the product of what I do, what I do is a product of what I am.

 

[Robban]

The claim about, the second temple being destroyed. It’s not destroyed. The first one suffered an attack. But it’s not in Palestine.

From Chabad.org knowledge base,

Destruction of the Temple.

According to Josephus, Titus did not want the Temple to be burnt, apparently because a standing Temple would reflect more on Rome`s glory.

It was a Roman soldier acting on his own initiative who, hoisted on the shoulders of another soldier,
threw a firebrand into the Temple.

Titus tried to put a stop to the fire, but in the chaos, his soldiers did not hear him.

(Other historians contradict this account of Titus`s enlightened perspective and report that Titus ordered the Temple destroyed.)