He’s a citizen with a Real ID. ICE detained him anyway. Twice.

[ThatRobGuy]

In the case of a John Doe summons, per the articles you linked, this is incorrect:

However, in the other ones I posted...

If my brother were suspected of tax shenanigans, and they used an administrative summons (not through the courts), they could pull my info as well without any sort of court involvement.

...but just to clarify, is focusing on the minutia of whatever minute differences may exist really a sincere procedural concern? Or is that just to have a reason why "well, this is different"?

Had a Trump appointed, Trump-friendly judge signed off on a some sort of "official" warrant for ICE to raid that particular worksite, would that have changed perceptions about this at all? Or would the complaints have just pivoted toward some sort of racism rationale?

Because in cases where they have obtained warrants, the rhetoric seems to shift towards critiques of "Blackie's warrants"

ICE’s Use of Blackie’s Warrants in Worksite Enforcement: What Employers Need to Know

Learn how employers should respond when ICE agents present a civil search warrant—known as a Blackie’s warrant—at the workplace. Discover the differences between civil, criminal, and administrative warrants, recent legal challenges, and practical steps to protect your business and employee...

www.gtlaw-insidebusinessimmigration.com

So my curious mind wonders, is the procedural complaint a front for a gripe that would exist even if the procedural circumstances were different?


"This is wrong because you didn't get a warrant!"

Only matters if the positions haven't been

"Well, this warrant is bogus because it comes from a judge we don't like"
or
"Well, this kind of warrant is bogus because we don't think it passes constitutional muster"


To use the best analogy my tired brain can think of after a 14-hour work day...

If the Westboro Baptist Church was complaining about a Gay pride rally on the grounds of them not getting the proper public permit.

"Would you have been cool with the rally if they'd gotten the right permit?"
"No, we still think it's evil and would have pivoted to a different type of objection and challenged it on public indecency grounds and pulled every legal lever we could to get it shut down"
"Okay, so why even bring up the permit stuff???"


Because that's basically where we're at with the ICE/Illegal immigration conversation.

Had ICE rolled into that work site with a dozen judicial warrants, there still would've been complaints about it being racist and xenophobic etc... The lack of the specific kind of warrant is just the low hanging fruit people are grasping at to justify their outrage over the thing they're actually mad about...which is, the deportation of Latino/Hispanic undocumented individuals in the country.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

"This is wrong because you didn't get a warrant!"

Only matters if the positions haven't been

"Well, this warrant is bogus because it comes from a judge we don't like"
or
"Well, this kind of warrant is bogus because we don't think it passes constitutional muster"

I don't believe I've ever made this argument.

 

[rjs330]

So you didn't bother to read the link I provided you in post #69 that you quoted and replied to

Yes I did read it. It doesn't answer the questions I posed. How many were deported that were here illegally? How many were deported due to their visas being expired, How many were deported who had visas that didn't allow them to work?

It's unclear how/if those with "business visas" were violating those visas. Unfortunately, the government often issues statements that don't comport with reality as shown by videos, subsequent statements, etc.

So you don't know.

Americans also do NOT feel that way. A LOT of them. Your question is unanswerable as the premise is flawed and not applicable.

Yes and its probably all the liberals. Why do you want illegals here so badly? Why dont you want them to go home and come legally?

Now that they do understand, even you have admitted that support has waned, so maybe don't claim that unmodified "Americans" support whatever you believe when unmodified "Americans" also do not.

So? At the time of the election the majority of Americans DID want it done. Americans, 50% now still want it. So yes Ameticans support it. And in fact over 50% STILL support it. When you take all the variables the majority still support it. Its still the minority that don't want it. You are still in the minority.

Okay, then it is a meaningful appeal to emotion.

Thats exactly what you, the mainstream media and a lot of social.media are doing. Appealing to emotion. I support the law and rhe reasons for the laws in place. You support emotional appeals.

This is in dispute.

Not according to the story you posted. He wasnt a citizen, natural born OR naturalized.

 

[rjs330]

So what was the deal? Those technicians were not just illegal immigrants sneaking in to work. They were here to help build a plant for Americans to work in. Their employer thought they were legal, their government though they were legal and they thought they were legal and when they had finished the plant they intended to go home. They were actually doing us a favor so we shackle them like criminals?

Look you can question tactics or procedures all you want. I've actually got no issues with that. I dont agree with some of their procedures. But I don't have any issues with them enforcing the laws. Should they have been shackled? Maybe not. I don't know why they were. Should handcuffs been good enough. Maybe so. I'm not going to argue whether or they should have or should have not be shackled or if handcuffed should.have been enough.