What would have happened to Adam and Eve and Cain after death?

[Tigger Boy]

Again, there is no recent hermeneutical evidence or scholarly evidence to change the comma. I’m sorry that it doesn’t agree with your doctrine but you can’t use the “it shouldn’t be there” error to justify it.

I have presented to you evidence in the words of Christ, as recorded in Jh. 20:17, that Christ did not go to heaven/paradise the day of His death, but two days latter. I have also shared with you in my first post (Ezekiel 18:20, and Rev. 16:3) which states that souls die, which I assume you don't believe. (John 5:28,29; Acts 2:29,34; Job 17:13) that the saved do not go to heaven when they die, nor the lost to hell, which i assume you believe. And Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10; Psalms 115:17) that the dead know nothing, nor do they praise the Lord. All of these Biblical texts and others I have not mentioned prove that the thief could not have gone to paradise along with Christ the day Christ was crucified.

You need not apologize for not agreeing with me, as you are free to believe whatever you choose to believe. But certainly my previous posts show that I have given Biblical support for why the comma in Lk.23:43, has been placed in the wrong place, since it contradicts what the Bible clearly teaches on death. So no, I haven't relied on "it shouldn't be there to justify it

 

[Hentenza]

I have presented to you evidence in the words of Christ, as recorded in Jh. 20:17, that Christ did not go to heaven/paradise the day of His death, but two days latter. I have also shared with you in my first post (Ezekiel 18:20, and Rev. 16:3) which states that souls die, which I assume you don't believe. (John 5:28,29; Acts 2:29,34; Job 17:13) that the saved do not go to heaven when they die, nor the lost to hell, which i assume you believe. And Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10; Psalms 115:17) that the dead know nothing, nor do they praise the Lord. All of these Biblical texts and others I have not mentioned prove that the thief could not have gone to paradise along with Christ the day Christ was crucified.

You need not apologize for not agreeing with me, as you are free to believe whatever you choose to believe. But certainly my previous posts show that I have given Biblical support for why the comma in Lk.23:43, has been placed in the wrong place, since it contradicts what the Bible clearly teaches on death. So no, I haven't relied on "it shouldn't be there to justify it

It is no difference than the poor man in Abraham bosom depicted in Luke 16. Paradise is the third heaven as Paul describes in 2 Cor. 12. This heaven is not the same as where Jesus explains He has not been to in John 20:17. In fact, Paul and Jesus call the third heaven paradise.

Ezekiel 18:20 teaches that the soul that sins will die which they will indeed at the end of times. The soul of the sinner will go to hades just like the soul of the rich man in Luke 16 did. Rev. 20 describes how hades and death will be thrown in the lake of fire at the end of times (Rev. 20:14).

Rev. 16:3, John 5:28-29, has no teaching about the soul.

Acts 2:29 only talks about David’s grave not about his soul.

Acts 2:34 is a quote from Psalm 110:1 which is a prophesy about the messiah. Also read, Luke 20:23 and Heb. 1:13.

Job 17:13 Sheol and Hades are the same place. This is where the rich man in Luke 16 is.

ECC. 9: 5-6,10. The first two verses refer to the body not the soul. Verse 10 is also not talking about the soul otherwise it would be in tension with Luke 16 where the rich man was talking and needed water. When an interpretation causes tension between parts of scripture then is best to examine one’s interpretation rather than force an interpretation.

Psalm 115:17 the dead bodies do not praise the Lord but the souls do including the souls of the martyrs (Rev. 6:9).

I have now addressed every verse that you have posted and added a couple of my own.

Be blessed.

 

[Tigger Boy]

It is no difference than the poor man in Abraham bosom depicted in Luke 16. Paradise is the third heaven as Paul describes in 2 Cor. 12. This heaven is not the same as where Jesus explains He has not been to in John 20:17. In fact, Paul and Jesus call the third heaven paradise.

Ezekiel 18:20 teaches that the soul that sins will die which they will indeed at the end of times. The soul of the sinner will go to hades just like the soul of the rich man in Luke 16 did. Rev. 20 describes how hades and death will be thrown in the lake of fire at the end of times (Rev. 20:14).

Rev. 16:3, John 5:28-29, has no teaching about the soul.

Acts 2:29 only talks about David’s grave not about his soul.

Acts 2:34 is a quote from Psalm 110:1 which is a prophesy about the messiah. Also read, Luke 20:23 and Heb. 1:13.

Job 17:13 Sheol and Hades are the same place. This is where the rich man in Luke 16 is.

ECC. 9: 5-6,10. The first two verses refer to the body not the soul. Verse 10 is also not talking about the soul otherwise it would be in tension with Luke 16 where the rich man was talking and needed water. When an interpretation causes tension between parts of scripture then is best to examine one’s interpretation rather than force an interpretation.

Psalm 115:17 the dead bodies do not praise the Lord but the souls do including the souls of the martyrs (Rev. 6:9).

I have now addressed every verse that you have posted and added a couple of my own.

Be blessed.

Yes indeed both Paul and Jesus called the third heaven paradise because it’s farther out, than the first heaven in which birds and plans fly and the law of gravity is in play. The second is where the planets are suspended beyond the laws of gravity. The third heaven is beyond all that which we can’t see into and where God and angels reside and New Jerusalem. Neither you or I have ever heard of a forth heaven. Thus logic would lead one to believe that the third heaven is Paradise since it obviously is neither the first or second. You state, “Paradise is the third heaven as Paul describes in 2 Cor. 12. This heaven is not the same as where Jesus explains He has not been in John 20:17.” That statement is true, except, “This heaven is not the same as where Jesus explains He has not been to in John 20:17,” for the reasoning given.Your error in reasoning does not lesson the fact that Jesus never left his tomb before Sunday morning to return to His Father in the third heaven/paradise as both Paul and Jesus refer to it, supporting the fact that the comma in Lk 23:43 should have been placed after the word “today” not in front of it.

The remainder of your post deals with your understanding of a soul. I explained to you the very essence of a soul in my first post to you, but you have not grasped its true meaning so l will explain again what the Bible reveals. Look again at (Genesis 2:7) One must understand that man was formed from two elements, dust of the earth, and the breath of life from Jesus our creator. It is only when these “Two elements” come together that a “living soul” is created, thus man became a living soul/ person/being. Please realize that Jesus did not put a living soul in man, but rather man became a “living soul” only when those two elements were combined. Now let’s give thought to death. Based on Gen. 2:7 description of a living soul, does it not make sense that death would occur when the body and breath are separated? If that makes sense to you, then we also must understand that the living soul ceases to exist, thus a living soul dies,
( Ez.18;20) and the living soul/ person/ being knows nothing (Ecc. 9: 5,6, 10) This is the first death of mankind, and is the consequences of sin, and Jesus refers to this first death as sleep,(Jn 11:11-14) because all who experience the first death will latter be called forth from the grave in either the first of second resurrection, after the seven last plagues, not at death. (Jn. 5:28, 29)

Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.” You state, “Acts 2:29 only talks about David’s grave not about his soul.” When a sole is correctly understood as a living being/person, then it would not make sense in this verse to talk about his soul since David was a living soul and is mentioned by name. Luke drives home the fact that David is nowhere, other than in his tomb since his death, and his soul is not in paradise/the third heaven.

Psalms 115:17, “The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence”. This texts makes perfect sense just as it reads when one understands the correct understanding of a iiving sole/ person/being when they die. They are silent/asleep in their grave, in the first death, therefore they cannot praise the Lord, until they are resurrected. Please note in this texts no mention of any living souls going to paradise/third heaven. With respect to this verse you claim, “the dead bodies do not praise the Lord but the souls do … ) Yes, common sense leads one to believe that bodies do not praise the Lord, but you inject the idea that the souls of those dead bodies do, when it is never mentioned in this text. Why, because the souls of these dead do not exist since the “body and breath ” has been separated upon their death, therefore the living soul does not exist, thus incapable of giving praise to God.

(Ecc 9:5,6, 10) “5) For the living[souls/persons/beings] know that they will die; But the dead know nothing,[because they are no longer living souls/ persons/being] And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. 6) Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun. 10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

Note again in these texts no mention of living souls going to paradise/third heaven, why, because the "body and breath" are separated at death and the soul ceases to exist. Note also in the brackets my words adder for clarity, and how much sense the texts makes just as it reads when one understands what makes up a living soul.

You state, “the first two verses refer to the body not the soul. Verse 10 is also not talking about the soul …”. This statement again proves your lack of understanding as to what a soul is. You believe that a soul can exist outside the body. Wrong, a soul consists of two elements body and the breath of life. (Gen. 2:7) without a body a living soul does not exist.

Do not continue to let the devil deceive you on this very important subject. Pleas give all that I have conveyed to you prayerful consideration. Most likely you are defending your religions teaching on "Death". As you know religions are very diverse on their teaching. They all teach some truths and some error. Each of us should place our faith in God's word should we find our religion teachings are wrong on some issues. Would yor agree?

 

[Hentenza]

Yes indeed both Paul and Jesus called the third heaven paradise because it’s farther out, than the first heaven in which birds and plans fly and the law of gravity is in play. The second is where the planets are suspended beyond the laws of gravity. The third heaven is beyond all that which we can’t see into and where God and angels reside and New Jerusalem. Neither you or I have ever heard of a forth heaven. Thus logic would lead one to believe that the third heaven is Paradise since it obviously is neither the first or second. You state, “Paradise is the third heaven as Paul describes in 2 Cor. 12. This heaven is not the same as where Jesus explains He has not been in John 20:17.” That statement is true, except, “This heaven is not the same as where Jesus explains He has not been to in John 20:17,” for the reasoning given.Your error in reasoning does not lesson the fact that Jesus never left his tomb before Sunday morning to return to His Father in the third heaven/paradise as both Paul and Jesus refer to it, supporting the fact that the comma in Lk 23:43 should have been placed after the word “today” not in front of it.

1. I never mentioned a fourth heaven do not sure where you go that from.

2. Jesus body remained in the tomb for three days but His divine self did not. 1 Peter 3 tells us that He ministered to the spirits in “prison” and that He went to paradise as He told the thief. This has been Christian teaching since the beginning.

The remainder of your post deals with your understanding of a soul. I explained to you the very essence of a soul in my first post to you, but you have not grasped its true meaning so l will explain again what the Bible reveals. Look again at (Genesis 2:7) One must understand that man was formed from two elements, dust of the earth, and the breath of life from Jesus our creator. It is only when these “Two elements” come together that a “living soul” is created, thus man became a living soul/ person/being. Please realize that Jesus did not put a living soul in man, but rather man became a “living soul” only when those two elements were combined. Now let’s give thought to death. Based on Gen. 2:7 description of a living soul, does it not make sense that death would occur when the body and breath are separated? If that makes sense to you, then we also must understand that the living soul ceases to exist, thus a living soul dies,
( Ez.18;20) and the living soul/ person/ being knows nothing (Ecc. 9: 5,6, 10) This is the first death of mankind, and is the consequences of sin, and Jesus refers to this first death as sleep,(Jn 11:11-14) because all who experience the first death will latter be called forth from the grave in either the first of second resurrection, after the seven last plagues, not at death. (Jn. 5:28, 29)

Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.” You state, “Acts 2:29 only talks about David’s grave not about his soul.” When a sole is correctly understood as a living being/person, then it would not make sense in this verse to talk about his soul since David was a living soul and is mentioned by name. Luke drives home the fact that David is nowhere, other than in his tomb since his death, and his soul is not in paradise/the third heaven.

Psalms 115:17, “The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence”. This texts makes perfect sense just as it reads when one understands the correct understanding of a iiving sole/ person/being when they die. They are silent/asleep in their grave, in the first death, therefore they cannot praise the Lord, until they are resurrected. Please note in this texts no mention of any living souls going to paradise/third heaven. With respect to this verse you claim, “the dead bodies do not praise the Lord but the souls do … ) Yes, common sense leads one to believe that bodies do not praise the Lord, but you inject the idea that the souls of those dead bodies do, when it is never mentioned in this text. Why, because the souls of these dead do not exist since the “body and breath ” has been separated upon their death, therefore the living soul does not exist, thus incapable of giving praise to God.

(Ecc 9:5,6, 10) “5) For the living[souls/persons/beings] know that they will die; But the dead know nothing,[because they are no longer living souls/ persons/being] And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. 6) Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun. 10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

I already responded to the verses you quoted here in my last post. My response is not going to change.

Secondly why do you ignore verses that do not agree with you?

“then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

bible.com

This is about as clear as it gets. The body returns to dust and to the earth while the spirit (soul) returns to God. You can’t deny the plain reading.

Do not continue to let the devil deceive you on this very important subject. Pleas give all that I have conveyed to you prayerful consideration. Most likely you are defending your religions teaching on "Death". As you know religions are very diverse on their teaching. They all teach some truths and some error. Each of us should place our faith in God's word should we find our religion teachings are wrong on some issues. Would yor agree?

Why is it that folks that promote non mainstream doctrines always accuse others as being deceived by the devil? This view is promoted by sects like SDAs, JW’s and Chiristadelphians, of which two reject the Trinity. Soul sleep is not a mainstream teaching for the very simple reason that it is not biblical. I’m going to return your warning to you to consider.