Church meeting with minister - can you help?

[Maria Billingsley]

But see I dont see it as derailing. How is a woman supposed to, and according to you,


If the change is leadership based and so far your only answer is to become a leader themselves. So my question is very much relevant. If a woman has these issues, what do they do? I can only guess based off your last reply that you mean they say nothing? Because that's not scriptural when we are all called to hold each other accountable.

Go to the Pastor's wife and to the elders wives. They can certainly pass the message.

Other than that, I don't know. I didn't write the proper rules of engagement in a congregational setting, Paul did, for that matter, Jesus Christ of Nazareth didn't either.
Thanks for engaging !

 

[ChubbyCherub]

I mean no disrespect in this comment, but it sounds like you have misgivings about the church you were raised in yet you then joined another just like it. While it is admirable that you are going to share your concerns with your church leadership, perhaps you would be well served to look for a church that is not like the one you were raised in, which you didn't like so much in the first place. We naturally tend to gravitate to the familiar. Sometimes it is useful to step out of familiar territory and our comfort zone. Best wishes.

Thank you so much! No offense taken at all!

For context, I was raised in US and I now live in England. I didn't attend church for many years, for a variety of reasons, and researched many before attending, finally. England vs US churches are two entirely different ballgames, IMO, but maybe the whole thing is a different ballgame from how I was raised?

The first church I went to, a number of times, was very small <20 total people. They were nice but they were also very low energy. By this, I mean that the sermons seemed to lack conviction and the congregation literally fell asleep throughout the sermon and woke up towards the end at the promise of cake! Many of the women knitted during the sermon and, with the exception of one elder, they did not feel very welcoming after we had attended a number of times. We found ourselves trying to mingle with really socially awkward people who seemed very insular. They, by no means, seemed rude or anything but we just didn't feel like we were a good fit given our personality types, professions, age etc. This was a non-demon church, btw.

So, we sought another church with the same Statement of Faith which was larger thinking there may be a different or more varied demographic e.g. mix of ages, backgrounds, etc. This larger church definitely marks those boxes which is why I would be reluctant to just bail out if I feel there is truly good will on their part.

 

[ChubbyCherub]

I have heard good, biblical sermons which are short, medium length, and long. I would say that whether the sermon is biblical or not is far more important than its length.

None of the churches I have been a member of has an altar, or a call to an altar. I agree that unsaved people should be given clear information on how to find out more about the way of salvation. The preacher could say, "Have a word with me after the service," or "My contact details are on the notice board/service sheet (or where ever)." Altar calls tend to be associated with the idea of "going to the front" and repeating the "sinner's prayer." Many churches would say that such a practice is not described in the bible.

I do wish you all the best for your meeting, and may God guide you as to where you should be in membership in he future.

Thank you so much for this information. Maybe there is a difference in US/UK churches and I will ensure that I take cultural differences into account during our discussion. Really appreciated!

 

[ChubbyCherub]

But see I dont see it as derailing. How is a woman supposed to, and according to you,


If the change is leadership based and so far your only answer is to become a leader themselves. So my question is very much relevant. If a woman has these issues, what do they do? I can only guess based off your last reply that you mean they say nothing? Because that's not scriptural when we are all called to hold each other accountable.

I don't know if it helps or not but I can only say what I did, bearing in mind that I have never done anything like this before, so wouldn't like to say if the approach was right or wrong.

I emailed the church secretary, who is a woman and who has been very, very kind to me. She was not raised in England and came from a Pentecostal background in her country so we had a lot in common from the beginning.

I laid out my concerns about what was/was not being addressed during sermons, why I thought it was important, asked if I had the wrong end of the stick, if there was miscommunication or misunderstanding, who (if anyone) I should speak to about it since the elder who I was very close to and had baptized me earlier this year had retired due to health reasons, if I was breaching etiquette in any way and was it okay to address things with a church or just quietly leave?

I also asked if I was expecting too much from the main sermon and if there were any extracurricular activities in the church I could attend that would further my understanding or any studies outside of the church which they could recommend.

I explained it was all very important for me to approach this correctly out of respect for the church, the individuals within and the fact that moving may affect my husband and adult child who attend with me but are not yet believers.

She responded by saying that maybe God led me there to challenge the way they do things and thanked me for doing so. She said she'd refer me to the lead pastor. After a few weeks, I got an email from a different pastor and the director of ministry (who is a woman) and they invited me to meet with them to discuss why they do what they do etc.

I hope that helps in case you ever find yourself in a similar position and want to discuss things before considering a change.

God bless!

 

[ChubbyCherub]

So, an update. Not sure if anyone ever updates, after seeking advice, but it seems like the right thing to do?

The meeting was ok? Weirdly, the 2 I met with seemed very, very nervous and kind of hinted that they thought I was there to verbally beat them up, or criticize them or something antagonist rather than seeking guidance, help and common ground as per the bible? I don't know if they regularly are confronted, harshly or inappropriately or what, but it was a very strange vibe!! Because of their demeanour, I was thrown off and the meeting didn't seem as productive as I imagined it would be but I guess time will tell.

They initially said they didn't want to be defensive, but admitted they were, because they do feel like they preach about sin. I explained they use the word but they aren't explicit about what sin is and how it pertains to modern life, why we should care to be saved from it and why we should care that Jesus died etc. They continued to defend their position but I think, eventually, they understood where I was coming from after they realized I was there in a caring way? I don't know 100%?

They also said that the UK churches don't like to preach in extremes so no 'hellfire and brimstone' and no 'we're all God's perfect angels' but seek to be somewhere in the middle? They also said they don't like to use the word 'hell' even though they all believe in it but, instead, prefer to use the word 'judgment'.

I didn't point out that the reluctance to talk about sin and hell was the whole reason I was there...I'm just not sure they were understanding, wanted to understand or were too nervous to do anything but react. Maybe God will talk to them and show them what I was trying to say so that they can reflect and I hope the same for me?

The conclusion was that they heard me, appreciated my courage for discussing it with them instead of just leaving and confirmed that our beliefs aligned. They want me to stay, believed that there was no reason for me to leave since our beliefs and goals aren't in opposition and prayed.

I don't know. It was all a bit odd!!!!

Anyway, thank you all for your assistance. I have prayed so much about this matter and will continue to do so........God bless.

 

[rebornfree]

It sounds like a cultural difference between the UK and the USA. I've had it the other way around.

Being English and loving Jesus throughout my childhood I was deeply distressed, at age 15, when I heard an American evangelist tell us that if we died that night we would go to hell. He also offered an altar call, which I had never heard of and had not seen in the Bible. I wrongly thought that even good things were sin and it made my life miserable, but didn't save me. That happened five years later with an older Christian lady (I'm female) who asked me if I had done anything wrong and when the Holy Spirit brought something to mind, and I accepted that Jesus had died for it, I was born again and the Bible became more alive to me. In fairness though I do have a friend who likes altar calls as it helped him when hearing the gospel.

I think we British are more impressed by good works than hellfire preaching. Churches tend to preach the whole Bible, as it is the Word of God to us, and many will evangelise through service to the community and building friendships. At times they will run courses for enquires or new believers. I think this fits with Jesus's ministry to people and His many parables about the Kingdim of Heaven. Yes, there are warnings about hell, but it feels that the history of the Lord's goodness to the human race and Jesus's love and compassion can be overlooked with too much emphasis on hell. Of course we do need to be certain that people understand that they need to accept Jesus as their Saviour in order to receive Eternal Life.

To me it seems like your meeting went well. We are not used to confrontation. which may account for their nervousness, but I'm think most leaders would prefer people to air their anxieties rather than just leave the Church.

 

[ChubbyCherub]

It sounds like a cultural difference between the UK and the USA. I've had it the other way around.

Being English and loving Jesus throughout my childhood I was deeply distressed, at age 15, when I heard an American evangelist tell us that if we died that night we would go to hell. He also offered an altar call, which I had never heard of and had not seen in the Bible. I wrongly thought that even good things were sin and it made my life miserable, but didn't save me. That happened five years later with an older Christian lady (I'm female) who asked me if I had done anything wrong and when the Holy Spirit brought something to mind, and I accepted that Jesus had died for it, I was born again and the Bible became more alive to me. In fairness though I do have a friend who likes altar calls as it helped him when hearing the gospel.

I think we British are more impressed by
good works than hellfire preaching. Churches tend to preach the whole Bible, as it is the Word of God to us, and many will evangelise through service to the community and building friendships. At times they will run courses for enquires or new believers. I think this fits with Jesus's ministry to people and His many parables about the Kingdim of Heaven. Yes, there are warnings about hell, but it feels that the history of the Lord's goodness to the human race and Jesus's love and compassion can be overlooked with too much emphasis on hell. Of course we do need to be certain that people understand that they need to accept Jesus as their Saviour in order to receive Eternal Life.

To me it seems like your meeting went well. We are not used to confrontation. which may account for their nervousness, but I'm think most leaders would prefer people to air their anxieties rather than just leave the Church.

Thank you very much for your perspective! I think it went ok, too? I keep praying so that all evolves as is God's will. I don't mind there not being altar calls, since @David Lamb and my husband also brought to my attention that this is not the norm, so not a problem there, personally.

I just want to make sure I am in the right place for spiritual growth, appropriate praise and biblical teachings which are sound. It's important for me and my family.

Thanks so much and God bless!

 

[ChubbyCherub]

Another update: the sermon on Sunday was built around my email to the elders and subsequent discussion. I was amazed that I was in the presence of God answering my prayers!

1. I prayed for months about what to do because I wasn't sure if the church was where I should be
2. I prayed months before sending my email to the church
3. I came here for advice
4. I prayed after sending my email re: how to handle the meeting e.g. how to communicate, how to respond, how to show that all my feedback and questions were Christ led

Then, I watched in real time, as the church listened and honored God by delivering a sermon which was biblical, powerful and wholesome

Praise God!

 

[rebornfree]

Another update: the sermon on Sunday was built around my email to the elders and subsequent discussion. I was amazed that I was in the presence of God answering my prayers!

1. I prayed for months about what to do because I wasn't sure if the church was where I should be
2. I prayed months before sending my email to the church
3. I came here for advice
4. I prayed after sending my email re: how to handle the meeting e.g. how to communicate, how to respond, how to show that all my feedback and questions were Christ led

Then, I watched in real time, as the church listened and honored God by delivering a sermon which was biblical, powerful and wholesome

Praise God!

Praise God indeed, and your trust in Him was rewarded.

 

[com7fy8]

the sermon on Sunday was built around my email to the elders and subsequent discussion.

You might thank them, and clearly say they have done well.

If the secretary is Pentecostal . . . may be she is hired from another church. I know a church that required that a secretary not be a member of the church. Perhaps, this is a rule for hiring a secretary at your church. If she is not a member there, may be she is not acquainted with how things are done there during a service; but she was able to see what you were offering that needs correction and was able to support you and even honor you.

And, of course, I think you should share with the secretary now to let her know how things have gone. And she can help you to communicate your appreciation to the one who gave the sermon.

And possibly your church needs to find out who are the members/visitors there who are maturing in Jesus and qualified to have small groups where they can minister.

You say there are ones of different language backgrounds? They could have groups that make sure the ones of each native language are understanding the messages. And you could learn some Hispanic, at least, maybe, and even have one or more who you are helping with their English > this could get organized, but by personal friendship this could be better.

And yes you could talk with the pastor's wife and see how you find her to be able to lead a group or maybe not. And you could support her that you would be in the group and even help her.

 

[com7fy8]

Smaller churches can do what bigger churches do. People are human.

So, while you may notice things the leaders are doing, I think you do well to personally connect with ones who are into Jesus and the word and prayer. And share with these people, so you can grow in Christ and relating as God's family.

And support the leadership to get more into how to mature in Jesus. Possibly, if they have been honorable with you, they are on their way to maturing into more genuine leadership. But you can reach and minister personally, and discover who else is doing this. And perhaps leadership people will turn out to be doing this, too > after all, the Holy Spirit is able to have you and leaders getting the same things.

My opinion now is that God's focus of ministry and how He manages things of this world is He is conforming us to the image of His own Son Jesus. This is His main focus >

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

And I consider that Colossians 1:28-29 shows how Paul therefore had this main focus.