So.....did your insurance premium go up?

[wing2000]

So even paying out each year you still have to pay per medical intervention?

Yes, unless it's considered preventative care, we still pay a portion. With some plans it's a percentage while others, it's a co-pay.

 

[wing2000]

What is the better Republican plan?

Let's not mention at the moment that Obamacare was a Republican plan.

Oh, but the Speaker of the House assures us they are on it....

"....Louisiana Republican Steve Scalise, Johnson relayed, “has been working with the chairman of our three committees of jurisdiction . . . grabbing the best ideas that we’ve had for years, to put it on paper and make it work,” But, he added, “we know we’re going to have to arm-wrestle with Democrats over that.”

If this all sounds vaguely familiar, that’s because it is."

The Republican Health Care Trap, Episode 78

As the shutdown drags on, the GOP croons its old tune: replacing Obamacare.

www.thebulwark.com

Have we even seen the "concepts of a plan"?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Its gone up, every year. Nothing new here. Ever since the promises of Obama care its continued to climb. Still going up.

People have short memories. Before Obamacare, insurance was very expensive, always increasing, and a large amount of people didn't have any, nor medicaid. Hospitals had been problems because so many without insurance came for things like bad injuries from a car accident, and they had to treat it. Rural hospitals were closing then too because of all the care they had to give to uninsured folks.

Plus insurance companies turned down people with pre-existing illnesses.
Republicans want to take us back to that.

 

[wing2000]

Come Nov 1st, if the current GOP legislation stands:

Article by KFF, outlining the impact by state...and age and poverty level:

"Without the enhanced tax credits, the out-of-pocket premium for an individual, age 40, with an annual income of $32,000, would rise by $122 per month, or about three times the premium payment with enhanced tax credits. This increase will happen in most congressional districts, except Alaska and Hawaii due to their different poverty level guidelines. In Alaska, monthly premium payments would increase from $15 out-of-pocket to $129 if the enhanced tax credits expire, a similar dollar increase but a jump of nearly 800%."

For a 60-year-old couple making $85,000, the congressional districts with the greatest increases per month:

• WY: 693% ($602 to $4,777)
• WV01: 654% ($602 to $4,540)
• WV02: 599% ($602 to $4,210)
• CT04: 537% ($602 to $3,833)
• IL12: 535% ($602 to $3,823)

The congressional districts with the smallest increases in the continental U.S. are all in New York, which uses community rated premiums:

• NY26: 110% ($602 to $1,265)
• NY23: 119% ($602 to $1,317)
• NY24: 142% ($602 to $1,457)
• NY22: 143% ($602 to $1,461)
• NY20: 150% ($602 to $1,505)

Which Congressional Districts Could See the Greatest ACA Premium Payment Increases?

If the enhanced premium tax credits expire this year, the impact on ACA enrollees’ premium payments will vary by income, age, and geography. Among the five congressional districts with the highest premium increases, premiums will increase by over 500%.

www.kff.org

P.S. 60 year-old people tend to vote.

 

[rjs330]

What is the better Republican plan?

Let's not mention at the moment that Obamacare was a Republican plan.

I dont think there is one. No one has a real plan because I dont think anyone really knows what to do. I dont care a wit about who's plan it was. Obama is the one who created what we have and it caused everything to go up in cost.

When it passed tge Republicans all voted against it. So if it was their plan they decided it wasn't a good one after all.

As of today I haven't heard anything from anyone that will help lower the costs except for getting rid of Ovamacare. And I have no idea if that would do it either.

 

[MarkSB]

I didn't say anything about tax cuts - frankly have no clue how you even got that idea.

You were abundantly unclear as to why you thought the ACA was "unaffordable". I assumed that you were saying it was unaffordable from a federal budget perspective, not from a personal budget perspective.

My point is that before the Unaffordable Care Act caused premiums to rise 105% and completely eliminated health care plans for hundreds of thousands of Americans (of which I was one) that were working for us. Then fining us $3,000.00 a year for not having the coverage we could no longer afford was draconian and authoritarian in scope.

At the time I had five of six children living at home - when my health insurance DOUBLED, there was little room left for the necessities of life, so I dropped the coverage and went with a cash plan my primary care provider had. Then I get hit with a $3,000 penalty for not subscribing to a health insurance plan that was double the cost of my previous one.

Thank God he stopped the $3,000.00 penalty.

Yeah, that stinks. And I didn't know that the ACA impacted some people that drastically. I went back to school in my late twenties, and left my job to finish my degree (full time) shortly after the ACA was implemented. In all honesty, I could not easily afford the market coverage, so did not get it. But I managed to avoid the penalty.

The thing is... how is eliminating the ACA subsidies going to change all that? It just seems like you will be putting a bunch of people in the same situation that you faced. How will that right the ship? If you think that the ACA is a bad plan, that's fine - and maybe you're right. But where's the better plan that will replace it? Don't you think this different / better plan should be in place before pulling out the rug out from underneath a bunch of people?

 

[RDKirk]

I dont think there is one. No one has a real plan because I dont think anyone really knows what to do. I dont care a wit about who's plan it was. Obama is the one who created what we have and it caused everything to go up in cost.

When it passed tge Republicans all voted against it. So if it was their plan they decided it wasn't a good one after all.

As of today I haven't heard anything from anyone that will help lower the costs except for getting rid of Ovamacare. And I have no idea if that would do it either.

You honestly believe that of all things in the American economy, health care costs would not have risen anyway?

 

[camille70]

We ware addressing the costs in total - subsidized and unsubsidized parts.

The country currently spends 1.7 Trillion dollars on Health care - Church and his friends are asking for 1.5 trillion more and saying it is for health care -

They say a picture is worth 1,000 words:

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61181

View attachment 372255

You really think we can bring medical up 1,5 trillion over the 1.48 trillion already being spent - where does the money come from?

This is not related to the earlier discussion.

If I'm not mistaken it was determined that insurance both via the ACA and employer insurance was about 26-27k. Your question was why is the rates going up 6% for insurance through employers, but more than that for insurance via the ACA. The answer is the employer is still subsidizing most of the insurance, and the ACA is cutting the subsidies if dems can't get the GOP to walk back the cuts.

 

[camille70]

Its gone up, every year. Nothing new here. Ever since the promises of Obama care its continued to climb. Still going up.

The increases have been slower since the ACA passed than the years preceding. If Marco Rubio hadn't destroyed the risk corridors they would have probably been even more affordable.

 

[camille70]

So even paying out each year you still have to pay per medical intervention?

Yes,

 

[camille70]

People have short memories. Before Obamacare, insurance was very expensive, always increasing, and a large amount of people didn't have any, nor medicaid. Hospitals had been problems because so many without insurance came for things like bad injuries from a car accident, and they had to treat it. Rural hospitals were closing then too because of all the care they had to give to uninsured folks.

Plus insurance companies turned down people with pre-existing illnesses.
Republicans want to take us back to that.

Just to add to the discussion:

From 2015:

5 years later, 'Obamacare' critics can't believe their lying eyes

On the ACA's fifth anniversary, it's worth acknowledging those who told Americans exactly what to expect from the law - and who got the story backwards.

www.msnbc.com

How Does the Federal Government Subsidize Healthcare Under the ACA — and What Does It Cost?

In 2025, the expansions of the premium tax credit under the Affordable Care Act will expire, and lawmakers will have to decide whether to extend them.

www.pgpf.org

How the ACA changed health insurance in the U.S.

Find out how the Affordable Care Act (ACA) dramatically improved nearly the entire U.S. health insurance system.

healthjournalism.org

Affordable Care Act (ACA): What It Is, Key Features, and Updates

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/affordable-care-act.asp

 

[rjs330]

You honestly believe that of all things in the American economy, health care costs would not have risen anyway?

Oh I think they would have. But its my underatanding that its outpaced rest of the economy. And there are those who believe that Obama care resulted in a greater increase than would have happened without it.

 

[RDKirk]

Oh I think they would have. But its my underatanding that its outpaced rest of the economy.

The cost of healthcare began outpacing the rest of the economy when health insurance companies were permitted to be for-profit entities in the early 70s.

And there are those who believe that Obama care resulted in a greater increase than would have happened without it.

There are also those who believe the world is flat and the Apollo 11 mission was a hoax.

 

[rjs330]

There are also those who believe the world is flat and the Apollo 11 mission was a hoax.

Except that experts have said it did. Insurance premiums jumped. Its proven by the data.

Data on how much Americans actually paid for their health insurance confirm that the ACA’s mandates and regulations dramatically increased the cost of individual market health insurance in almost all states.

The good news is that costs can fall if policymakers provide regulatory relief to allow states to redirect subsidies according to the unique needs of the citizens in their states. The initial data from states that implemented Section 1332 waiver programs show that permitting states to apply alternative approaches enabled them to reduce premiums, expand coverage options, and do a better job of focusing available resources on helping sick patients with high health care costs.

Because waiver programs are time-limited and temporary, the next step should be for Congress to build on the success by expanding the state flexibility granted during the past Administration, and making this flexibility permanent.7

Obamacare Has Doubled the Cost of Individual Health Insurance

The Affordable Care Act (ACA), known as Obamacare, produced major dislocations in the individual (non-group) health insurance market by imposing a raft of new mandates and regulations, coupled with new income-related coverage subsidies. The results have been not only reduced insurer choice and...

www.heritage.org

 

[rambot]

It's better than the Canadian MAID system. Just saying...

No it's not. Some things are faster usually (but not always).

That said I actually have to laugh outloud. Some of the numbers that I see here are like, 80% of my income tax as a Canadian per month.


That's perverse guys. Like....wow. You complain about the socialist hellscape....I dunno man.

Know someone, an American retiree, who had a leg wound that quickly went bad. After a nurse happened to see it, he was in a specialist's office the next day, and surgery the next or the day after.

Three times my father, a farmer and blue-collar worker, was found with a life-threatening condition, and each time he had specialist help right then or the day after.

"Life-threatenning condition". If it's immediate you get care the right day. If the impact is significant, unpredictable or likely immediate, you get seen FAST. During COVID my mom was diagnosed with colon cancer. Saw a specialist within a few days and was receiving treatment with 2 weeks.
I mean, if your appendix explodes, they take it our right away.

For relatively benign things (nonalcoholic fatty liver disease) I was able to see a specialist in about 2 months.

If you have a heart attack, pulminary care is as immediate as it gets.

My serious question for those who are on health care in other countries: How long would the retiree I know and my father would have had to wait to see a specialist?

It truly would depend on how imminent the "life threatenning" was.
I know people that are having to wait 2 years for MRIs because our current conservative government is enriching their friends in the private medicare sector (to the detriment of the public system) and the govt. is not investing in bottleneck areas.

Our system in Canada is FAAAAR from perfect, we are very aware of that. And we ABSOLUTELY have people who have been affected by slow service (which sadly, includes people dying). There are quite a few nonemergent interventions that do take a LONG time.



However, the ONLY people asking for American style health care, are the rich (who often will just fly somewhere else anyways). SEveral people in my family have flown down to mexico for dental work (to get TWO crowns put in in my home town costs the SAME as flying down with your partner, spending a week in Mexico AND getting your crowns put in).

If you truly are curious about whether they'd have to wait (or how long) you'd probably need to share what their specific affliction was)

 

[rambot]

Except that experts have said it did. Insurance premiums jumped. Its proven by the data.

Data on how much Americans actually paid for their health insurance confirm that the ACA’s mandates and regulations dramatically increased the cost of individual market health insurance in almost all states.

The good news is that costs can fall if policymakers provide regulatory relief to allow states to redirect subsidies according to the unique needs of the citizens in their states. The initial data from states that implemented Section 1332 waiver programs show that permitting states to apply alternative approaches enabled them to reduce premiums, expand coverage options, and do a better job of focusing available resources on helping sick patients with high health care costs.

Because waiver programs are time-limited and temporary, the next step should be for Congress to build on the success by expanding the state flexibility granted during the past Administration, and making this flexibility permanent.7

Obamacare Has Doubled the Cost of Individual Health Insurance

The Affordable Care Act (ACA), known as Obamacare, produced major dislocations in the individual (non-group) health insurance market by imposing a raft of new mandates and regulations, coupled with new income-related coverage subsidies. The results have been not only reduced insurer choice and...

www.heritage.org

pssst!
The ACA Is Making Health Insurers Much Richer
Correlation does not equal causation.
The fact that premiums jumped did not mean that costs increased...and wouldn't you know that health care companies profits have been skyrocketing. So what if they simply raised rates after the ACA was implemented even though it was was unnecessary (if profits are going up, we could guess where it is coming from).

Because they know exactly how to lobby the government to enrich themselves (at the expense of Americans).

Regardless, it seems that the spirit of the ACA is pretty much dead and buried anyways.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Heritage.org is a very biased site. I wouldn't go by them.

Fact Check: Have healthcare costs risen faster since the Affordable Care Act was passed? | Econofact

econofact.org

Fact Check: Have healthcare costs risen faster since the Affordable Care Act was passed?​

While health care costs have continued to increase since President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act into law in 2010, they’ve done so at a slower rate than in the years before the law was passed.​

​

A 2021 study published in JAMA found that out-of-pocket healthcare expenses increased at an average of 3.4% a year from 2000-2009 and 1.9% a year from 2010-2018, after the ACA.​

​

Per AI overview:

While health care costs have continued to increase since President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act into law in 2010, they’ve done so at a slower rate than in the years before the law was passed.​

​

A 2021 study published in JAMA found that out-of-pocket healthcare expenses increased at an average of 3.4% a year from 2000-2009 and 1.9% a year from 2010-2018, after the ACA.​

The big thing with Obamacare and the increased medicaid help in the past 10 years or so was that people had insurance as a result of those programs/plans. Instead of using the ER as a their primary care, they had a primary doctor or group of doctors. It helped dramatically with OB units in AZ, as there were way more paying customers. Rural hospitals were able to stay open. Insurance premiums at my husband's workplace dropped a bunch after Obamacare passed.

 

[RDKirk]

Except that experts have said it did. Insurance premiums jumped. Its proven by the data.

Oh, "experts" say that cost rose, but reputable experts are not testifying that costs wouldn't have risen as much otherwise.

 

[rjs330]

pssst!
The ACA Is Making Health Insurers Much Richer

Lol, that is supposed to show tge benefits of the ACA? Yes this something folks were warning of. It will increase costs.

Look I'm no cheer leader for insurance companies. I think they are in WAY too much control of our medical system.

 

[rambot]

Lol, that is supposed to show tge benefits of the ACA? Yes this something folks were warning of. It will increase costs.

No. IT has been "lobbied" into something it was not intended to be.
That is not an ACA problem; that's a legislative problem.

Look I'm no cheer leader for insurance companies. I think they are in WAY too much control of our medical system.

That's good.

I truly I wish I could convince Americans to not be so scared of public health.