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Nobel peace prize nominee restarts nuclear testing

rambot

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rambot

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Novel ... from one of the people who love to make fun of Trump's verbal gaffs.
Zing. I guess missing a letter by pressing the key beside it is just as insane as restarting nuclear testing.

Touche
 
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Desk trauma

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Bob Crowley

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ThatRobGuy

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Him wanting to start up nuclear testing or give some "show of strength" again wouldn't be a disqualifier for a Nobel peace prize (if prior winners are any indicator of the "caliber of peacemakers" they give it to)

Yasser Arafat
Henry Kissinger
Gorbachev
Aung San Suu Kyi

...are all former winners if memory serves

I can see where if there'd always been a high bar for peacefulness, decorum, and pacifism from the time of inception through present day, the prospect of Trump's name getting floated for the award would be out of sorts.

However, the awards been given to people who've been notoriously famous for leading terrorist orgs (that committed hijackings and the terrorist attack at the Olympics) and rejecting peace deals like Arafat, and people like Kyi who supported a literal genocide, and end up getting charged by the ICC for that debacle as well as prosecution of journalists.

And then you have others like Al Gore - who didn't necessarily do anything "bad", but whose nomination was a tad puzzling... while one may attach a certain level of virtue to climate advocacy and raising climate awareness, it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that it had much (if anything?) to do with "peace".



Just as an honest assessment, Trump wanting a Nobel for the "Gaza Ceasefire and Israel/Palestine Peace" would place it somewhere in the realm of Kissinger's win. (meaning, a very premature victory)

Kissinger received the Nobel in 1973 for "negotiating peace and a ceasefire in Vietnam"...but the conflict kept chugging along for another 2-3 years after he won -- including several US bombing campaigns. (and the war was finally ended when the bad guys won and Vietnam was re-unified under communist control)


We kind of have to pick our poison here...

Either the award means something, and as much as he's disliked, he's eligible based on the precedents set by prior winners.

Or we just acknowledge that the award itself is kind of a joke...at which point, we can simply say "who cares who won it"
 
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rambot

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Him wanting to start up nuclear testing or give some "show of strength" again wouldn't be a disqualifier for a Nobel peace prize (if prior winners are any indicator of the "caliber of peacemakers" they give it to)

Yasser Arafat
Henry Kissinger
Gorbachev
Aung San Suu Kyi

...are all former winners if memory serves

I can see where if there'd always been a high bar for peacefulness, decorum, and pacifism from the time of inception through present day, the prospect of Trump's name getting floated for the award would be out of sorts.

However, the awards been given to people who've been notoriously famous for leading terrorist orgs (that committed hijackings and the terrorist attack at the Olympics) and rejecting peace deals like Arafat, and people like Kyi who supported a literal genocide, and end up getting charged by the ICC for that debacle as well as prosecution of journalists.

And then you have others like Al Gore - who didn't necessarily do anything "bad", but whose nomination was a tad puzzling... while one may attach a certain level of virtue to climate advocacy and raising climate awareness, it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that it had much (if anything?) to do with "peace".



Just as an honest assessment, Trump wanting a Nobel for the "Gaza Ceasefire and Israel/Palestine Peace" would place it somewhere in the realm of Kissinger's win. (meaning, a very premature victory)

Kissinger received the Nobel in 1973 for "negotiating peace and a ceasefire in Vietnam"...but the conflict kept chugging along for another 2-3 years after he won -- including several US bombing campaigns. (and the war was finally ended when the bad guys won and Vietnam was re-unified under communist control)


We kind of have to pick our poison here...

Either the award means something, and as much as he's disliked, he's eligible based on the precedents set by prior winners.

Or we just acknowledge that the award itself is kind of a joke...at which point, we can simply say "who cares who won it"
Or, and here me out, maybe the award is almost always given to really great and worthwhile individuals and they've made a few decisions people disagree with.

The KYI one was fascinating to me. Not because she didn't deserve it before she got it (which I don't recall their being very much complaint over), but because of her behaviour AFTER she won it. Talk about trying to undercut a legacy......
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Or, and here me out, maybe the award is almost always given to really great and worthwhile individuals and they've made a few decisions people disagree with.

The KYI one was fascinating to me. Not because she didn't deserve it before she got it (which I don't recall their being very much complaint over), but because of her behaviour AFTER she won it. Talk about trying to undercut a legacy......
I don't know that we can sum up the legacies of Arafat, Kissinger, and Gorbachev as being that of "great individuals who just made a few bad decisions, but other than that, they were really great folks"

In the case of Kyi, I think that one is a case that would highlight of some of the short-sighted thinking along the lines of "anyone who represents resistance against a bad guy, must be one of the good guys/gals".

That's not always the case. e.g. Castro wasn't a "good guy" despite fighting against Batista (who was a "bad guy")

Anyone affiliated with a revolutionary movement/party that engages in "uprisings", coups, etc... is always going to have the propensity to be a little bit of a loose cannon.
 
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Trump is way behind where he needs to be. So mere testing is a joke.

In 2008, most people were checked out over the housing market. Everybody knew it was solid but nobody bothered to look. The few who did look freaked out, and we got the Big Short movie.

Welcome to the nuclear age where you didn't bother to look.

In the Bible it mentions the hell of wailing and gnashing of teeth that is associated with the return of Jesus. Now the return of Jesus is near. Funny how that looks a lot like the effect of radiation.

What radiation does to the human body | HBO's Chernobyl - YouTube
 
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Chesterton

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Or we just acknowledge that the award itself is kind of a joke...at which point, we can simply say "who cares who won it"
I think apart from the science awards, the Nobels are a joke, these days anyway. I don't know why you didn't mention Obama getting an award really just for having an abundance of melanin, and Dylan getting the literature prize for song lyrics.

And to all the naysayers in the thread who question this announcement shortly before a trip to China, I'll just paraphrase Richard Roma from Glengarry Glen Ross: "Where did you learn your trade? Who ever told you that you could work with men? You never open your mouth till you know what the shot is."

:)
 
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Desk trauma

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Now the return of Jesus is near.
Said every generation of Christians from 31CE or so onwards. However they were all clearly mistaken, unlike the current crop.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Really bringing out the big guns to try and distract from the Epstein scandal.
I don't think Trump cares about the Epstein stuff. Trump thinks he can just claim Liberal hoax. And tell the reporters, that they don't know what they are talking about. I think it more, Trump has access to nuclear testing. Kinda Trump like has a toy he can watch.
 
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essentialsaltes

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It's all probably just another endearing mistake, but an order's an order.

Trump orders Pentagon to start testing nuclear weapons 'on an equal basis' with other countries

China’s last known testing of a nuclear weapon was in 1996, and Russia’s recent weapons testing did not detonate a nuclear weapon, just the delivery technology.

Trump, who has lately sharpened his rhetoric about U.S. military capabilities, said the decision to resume testing was about reaching parity with Moscow and Beijing.

Trump later told reporters aboard Air Force One that his order “had to do with others,” adding that “they seem to all be nuclear testing.”

“We don’t do testing. We’ve halted it years, many years ago. But with others doing testing, I think it’s appropriate that we do also,” Trump said after his meeting with Xi.

Asked about Trump’s announcement, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov noted the moratorium on nuclear testing and told reporters, “Until now, we were not aware that anyone was testing anything.”

“But I want to recall President Putin’s statement, which has been repeated many times: that, of course, if someone abandons the moratorium, Russia will act accordingly,” he said.
 
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rambot

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I don't know that we can sum up the legacies of Arafat, Kissinger, and Gorbachev as being that of "great individuals who just made a few bad decisions, but other than that, they were really great folks"
No.
They would be examples of the times when we disagree with the committee, sure. I'm not sure why you'd include Gorbachev on the list though perhaps you're more familiar with his legacy?

In the case of Kyi, I think that one is a case that would highlight of some of the short-sighted thinking along the lines of "anyone who represents resistance against a bad guy, must be one of the good guys/gals".
Pray, BEFORE she was given teh award, what exactly did she do that was so awful?



That's not always the case. e.g. Castro wasn't a "good guy" despite fighting against Batista (who was a "bad guy")
If Castro didn't get teh award, I'm not sure why he'd be brought up.


Anyone affiliated with a revolutionary movement/party that engages in "uprisings", coups, etc... is always going to have the propensity to be a little bit of a loose cannon.
Careful...that's kind of...you know....United States of America.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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No.
They would be examples of the times when we disagree with the committee, sure. I'm not sure why you'd include Gorbachev on the list though perhaps you're more familiar with his legacy?
In the case of Arafat, it's not a "disagreement with the committee", they were just flat out wrong (or serving an agenda other than the stated mission). If it's called the "peace prize", I don't see any objective metric in which we can conclude that a guy who made a career out of rejecting peace deals, orchestrating terrorist attacks like hijackings and the Munich Olympics attack, and running the PLO, should have even been part of the conversation.

It's tantamount to the Nobel committee giving the physics prize to a flat-earther or a chemistry prize to someone who believes in homeopathy.

It's not just a "different strokes, to each their own" opinion-based thing at that point.


To your other question:
It's a mixed legacy that Gorbachev had.

While there were some very "western friendly" narratives about him. (citing the cooling of the arms race with the US, and the "easing of tensions" with western powers)... there's also the things like the deadly crackdowns in the Baltics, operating a surveillance state, and continuing throwing Russian bodies into the woodchipper that was the Soviet-Afghan war for 4 years.

Ultimately, he was a failing leader who was presiding over a crumbling empire, and threw in some last minute, half-hearted "reforms" to save some face on the world's stage before the final bell rang.

If you recall, the Soviet Union collapsed (and not intentionally or voluntarily) not long after he was given that award.
Pray, BEFORE she was given teh award, what exactly did she do that was so awful?
Before, nothing, but that was my point... if someone is affiliated with revolutionary movements, there's a much higher likelihood that some of that erratic behavior will appear later (especially once they're in a position of power)

She'd be somewhat in the same category of Abiy Ahmed in that regard.
If Castro didn't get teh award, I'm not sure why he'd be brought up.
That was just an example that highlights that if a person has that "radical revolutionary spirit", even if they haven't done anything bad "yet", if they're on a trajectory that's pointed at becoming a head of state or some other powerful position, the risk of erratic or oppressive behavior is higher than that of a "normie"

Radical revolutionary types are nothing if not rabidly idealistic, and that level of idealism + power seems to always trend toward some heavy-handed measures aimed at squashing opposing ideologies. At least that's been the pattern up until now.
Careful...that's kind of...you know....United States of America.
Where I'd draw a slight distinction is between a revolution to break free from another country, vs. a revolution to try to take over your own country.

"I want to build my own thing, and just want you to stay out of the way when I do it" vs. "I want to forcibly take over this thing that you built, but use it for my own purposes" typically comes from two different kinds of mentalities.


Sort of a:
"I want to start my own store so I don't have to deal with the likes of Walmart, I'll fight them harshly if they try to use their power/influence to prevent me from doing so"
vs.
"Me and a bunch of my friends are going to violently storm the local Walmart, change the name, take it over, and use their existing building, inventory, employees, cash registers, etc... to run a store the way we see fit"


But I take your point. There were some radical revolutionaries who formed America... and they certainly had the propensity for some impulsive, irrational (and sometimes violent) endeavors. A group thinking a piece of land is theirs by divine providence is the same kind of group that comes up with "gems" like the Scalp Acts.
 
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BPPLEE

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Said every generation of Christians from 31CE or so onwards. However they were all clearly mistaken, unlike the current crop.
You can say "It's closer than ever " and you'll always be right
 
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