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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

sjastro

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According to the nonsense spouted by UnchartedX and others, the Roman Lycurgus Cup is an example of the Romans possessing nanotechnology which then vanished only to reappear in the 1950s.

When the story however is conveyed by an archaeologist and historian it is not as fantastic sounding when testing, peer review, archaeological and historical research paints a more conventional picture.
Fast forward to around the 5 minute mark if you are not interested in the background details.

 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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According to the nonsense spouted by UnchartedX and others, the Roman Lycurgus Cup is an example of the Romans possessing nanotechnology which then vanished only to reappear in the 1950s.

When the story however is conveyed by an archaeologist and historian it is not as fantastic sounding when testing, peer review, archaeological and historical research paints a more conventional picture.
Fast forward to around the 5 minute mark if you are not interested in the background details.


This sort of thinking bugs me: why is it, that in a society where the artisans were their own separate pseudo-class and were given the patronage of the upper nobility and allowed to spend virtually their entire time making things, that it would be impossible for someone to make something like that?

People talk about all sorts of 'pilled' as a pejorative, but I have another one: modern-pilled. People too obsessed with thinking everything was like it was today that it has to be done the same way.
 
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stevevw

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I'm not reading 42 pages of this, but is the TL;DR of it that SteveVW still refuses to accept mainstream archaeological evidence on the ancient Egyptians for crackpot theories that cannot be actually supported by anything except conspiracy theories?
No thats a simplification and even logical fallacy. This is coming from Stevevw lol. The person who created the thread.
 
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stevevw

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And again, if the technology existed that people like stevevw claims existed... THEN WHERE IS IT?
Where is the tech full stop. Show me the tech that created the precision vases in the Naqada archeology. Show me the tool that cut the large blocks some 20 feet or more in width. Show me the tools and mechanisms that lifted 1500 ton blocks 500 miles over mountains. Or apparently shaved cuts from massive planers or cutting wheel that shaved, cut or planed into the hardest stones with ease.

Even the traditional methods are missing in the evidence. We have a few small saws, hemp rope, a wooden sled around 15 feel long and 4 foot wide. We have lots of spectulation claiming that somehow this was done. But no evidence of the tools and equipment for many works in the pre and early dynasties. Or other sites around the world.

The Baalbek blocks are a prime example. Said to be made by the Romans around the 1st century. They had no cranes that could life 1,000 tons out of quarries and up 30 feet into place perfectly aligned. Their biggest crane could only life 100 ton.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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No thats a simplification and even logical fallacy. This is coming from Stevevw lol. The person who created the thread.

That's why I asked, and that 100% is what I read it as.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Where is the tech full stop. Show me the tech that created the precision vases in the Naqada archeology. Show me the tool that cut the large blocks some 20 feet or more in width. Show me the tools and mechanisms that lifted 1500 ton blocks 500 miles over mountains.

Even the traditional methods are missing in the evidence. We have a few small saws, hemp rope, a wooden sled around 15 feel long and 4 foot wide. We have lots of spectulation claiming that somehow this was done. But no evidence of the tools and equipment for many works.

The Baalbek blocks are a prime example. Said to be made by the Romans around the 1st century. They had no cranes that could life 1,000 tons out of quarries and up 30 feet into place perfectly aligned.

We have the tech that archaeologists say is used. There have been images aplenty of it, you just go "NU-UH! THAT'S NOT IT! WHERE'S THE REAL TECH?"

You're the one making the claim that they used tech apart from what we know about them, so the onus is 100% on you to present that evidence. You have repeatedly failed to do so, and continue to fail to do so.

Also: have you never heard of raw manpower? Work gangs? Lots of people pulling and pushing things at the same time?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I am not sure what you mean by "read it as".

That you still refuse to accept mainstream archaeological evidence on the ancient Egyptians for crackpot theories that cannot be actually supported by anything except conspiracy theories.
 
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sjastro

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This sort of thinking bugs me: why is it, that in a society where the artisans were their own separate pseudo-class and were given the patronage of the upper nobility and allowed to spend virtually their entire time making things, that it would be impossible for someone to make something like that?

People talk about all sorts of 'pilled' as a pejorative, but I have another one: modern-pilled. People too obsessed with thinking everything was like it was today that it has to be done the same way.
Yes it is a modern day prejudice.

This is not a modern day phenomenon, in the early 19th century when Egyptian hieroglyphs were deciphered the name Haschetput was found on temples, obelisks and statues indicating a pharoah of immense influence.

When it was found Haschetput was a female name she was thought of as a Queen consort as it considered impossible for the Egyptians to be led by a female pharoah.
The conclusion was probably a reflection of 19th century attitudes towards women.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Yes it is a modern day prejudice.

This is not a modern day phenomenon, in the early 19th century when Egyptian hieroglyphs were deciphered the name Haschetput was found on temples, obelisks and statues indicating a pharoah of immense influence

When it was found Haschetput was a female name she was thought of as a Queen consort as it considered impossible for the Egyptians to be led by a female pharoah.
The conclusion was probably a reflection of 19th century attitudes towards women.

Which is ironic considering... well... QUEEN Victoria...
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Given at the time Egyptology was dominated by the French they probably found the monarchy equally perplexing.:)

That is actually a very good point. I often forget about the French.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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Then why did they say they were measuring electromagnetism.

Study Reveals Electromagnetic Properties of the Great Pyramid of Giza
The Great Pyramids are able to focus electromagnetic energy, particularly electromagnetic waves of the radio frequency range. Researchers discovered resonant features associated with the Pyramid’s electromagnetic dipole and quadrupole moments. Specifically, mathematical analysis indicated that the structure’s inner spaces and foundation resonate when hit by external radio waves with a wavelength of 200 to 600 meters, and can control the propagation, scattering, and concentration of this electromagnetic energy. Under these resonant conditions electromagnetic field distributions inside the Pyramid are found to be channeled and concentrated into the Pyramid’s chambers.

Scientists uncover how Egypt’s Great Pyramid manipulates electromagnetic waves.
In a groundbreaking discovery, researchers have found that the Great Pyramid of Giza can focus electromagnetic energy. This revelation significantly impacts our understanding of ancient engineering and potential modern applications. This article delves into the details of this historic discovery and its potential impact on future technologies.

They didn't measure electromagnetism (or anything for that matter)! Both popular articles reference the same SIMULATION study, yes I have read it (see the abstract below). No one has measured anything. They haven't shown it to be true, outside of their calculations that it is possible if the assumptions of the simulations are true. Which they might well be, radiowaves with wavelengths of 200-600 meters can perhaps interact with a pyramid shaped object if the properties of the material is of certain type. Maybe the ancient egyptians were preparing to listen to Japanese medium wave transmitters.

Don't get your news from sensationalistic ad mills.


Skärmbild 2025-10-24 104514.png
 
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stevevw

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We have the tech that archaeologists say is used. There have been images aplenty of it, you just go "NU-UH! THAT'S NOT IT! WHERE'S THE REAL TECH?"
First you have not shown this evidence aplenty. Second if the evidence does not show it then of course people are going to speculate. Especially when the tools don't match whats seen into the works lol.

For example the precision vases from predyanstic Egypt are from around 3600BC or earlier. The Naqada people were a neolithic culture with simple tech. They did not have the potters wheel or later Bore stick the Egyptians used to make soft stone vases.

But we know from the precise symmetry and roundness (though some dispute the level). But precise enough to say they were lathed somehow. This is the classic orthodoxy that high levels of circularity are the result of lathing or the potters wheel.

So where is the potters wheel or lathe that made these vases. So we spectulate that if the signatures show a lathe or wheel of some sort was involved we scratch our heads and wonder how this could be when no such tech was around.
You're the one making the claim that they used tech apart from what we know about them,
Because when we know about them from the evidence does not match the end results. If you found a watch on a beach in 1,000 AD in the archeology. You would either say its a kafe from modern times or wonder how they could make this when the tech was not yet developed.
so the onus is 100% on you to present that evidence. You have repeatedly failed to do so, and continue to fail to do so.
I already have. The evidence that these out of place works required a certain level of knowledge and tech beyond what was available and capable has already been linked. I don't need to do anything else. I don't need to say how it was achieved. Only that it could not be achieved by the orthodox methods in the archeological records and barratives.

It is up to the skeptics to show how these signatures could be achieved with conventional tools and tech. Like show evidence of that the Naqada people could achieve modern machine levels without a lathe or machine. Or how the traditional methods could achieve such signatures that look like modern routers, circular saws, and planers. Or life weights we struggle with today with modern logistics.
Also: have you never heard of raw manpower? Work gangs? Lots of people pulling and pushing things at the same time?
Good old manpower, its almost magical that it can mimick modern machining. Why would they even want to make a signature look like a modern planer did it. Its just a cut. If it was done simply by grinding and abrasion it would not leave such signatures.

You tell me how manpower and simple copper saws and abrasions would create such signatures that look exactly like modern machines.So much so that skeptics are forced to say they are modern forgeries that someone put much later.

1761297321974.png
1761297493729.png
1761301016127.png

Like this granite box saw cut which goes crooked well before its stopped. Tests have shown that cutting with copper saws and abrasion will only cut around an 1nch every 6 hours. So its hard to believe that a mistake could continue for weeks without being spotted. More likely the cutter was fast and suddenly went off course.

1761296814313.png
1761297053017.png

This Ancient Egyptian Saw-Cut Proves They Had a Lost ...

As the short video mentions there have been no copper saws found that are big enough, no inscriptions showing the cutting of granite with big saws. Only small saws cutting wood.

Or this amazing slab at AbuSir that looks like a giant planer shaved off the granite and left a sharp arc. Even leaving sharp steps here and there like it dug in a bit deeper in places.

1761301948322.png
1761302068374.png


These signatures sort of lend weight to the precision of the granite vase tech. They are also precise as in sharp straight lines, cuts and arcs ect that show machined level signatures. Together they build a strong case.

You can't keep saying they are all the result of hard work, pounding, abraising and rubbing that just happened to end up looking exactly like modern signatures.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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First you have not shown this evidence aplenty. Second if the evidence does not show it then of course people are going to speculate. Especially when the tools don't match whats seen into the works lol.

For example the precision vases from predyanstic Egypt are from around 3600BC or earlier. The Naqada people were a neolithic culture with simple tech. They did not have the potters wheel or later Bore stick the Egyptians used to make soft stone vases.

But we know from the precise symmetry and roundness (though some dispute the level). But precise enough to say they were lathed somehow. This is the classic orthodoxy that high levels of circularity are the result of lathing or the potters wheel.

So where is the potters wheel or lathe that made these vases. So we spectulate that if the signatures show a lathe or wheel of some sort was involved we scratch our heads and wonder how this could be when no such tech was around.

All claims from you and not a shred of evidence.

Because when we know about them from the evidence does not match the end results. If you found a watch on a beach in 1,000 AD in the archeology. You would either say its a kafe from modern times or wonder how they could make this when the tech was not yet developed.

A strawman fallacy.

I already have. The evidence that these out of place works required a certain level of knowledge and tech beyond what was available and capable has already been linked. I don't need to do anything else. I don't need to say how it was achieved. Only that it could not be achieved by the orthodox methods in the archeological records and barratives.

It is up to the skeptics to show how these signatures could be achieved with conventional tools and tech. Like show evidence of that the Naqada people could achieve modern machine levels without a lathe or machine. Or how the traditional methods could achieve such signatures that look like modern routers, circular saws, and planers. Or life weights we struggle with today with modern logistics.

It is up to the skeptics, sure. But you can't show a single thing to dispute anything from what the archaeologists, the people who actually study the ancient histories and the people, say. All you have is just claims.

Good old manpower, its almost magical that it can mimick modern machining. Why would they even want to make a signature look like a modern planer did it. Its just a cut. If it was done simply by grinding and abrasion it would not leave such signatures.

You tell me how manpower and simple copper saws and abrasions would create such signatures that look exactly like modern machines.So much so that skeptics are forced to say they are modern forgeries that someone put much later.

1761297321974.png
1761297493729.png
1761301016127.png

Like this granite box saw cut which goes crooked well before its stopped. Tests have shown that cutting with copper saws and abrasion will only cut around an 1nch every 6 hours. So its hard to believe that a mistake could continue for weeks without being spotted. More likely the cutter was fast and suddenly went off course.

1761296814313.png
1761297053017.png

This Ancient Egyptian Saw-Cut Proves They Had a Lost ...

As the short video mentions there have been no copper saws found that are big enough, no inscriptions showing the cutting of granite with big saws. Only small saws cutting wood.

Or this amazing slab at AbuSir that looks like a giant planer shaved off the granite and left a sharp arc. Even leaving sharp steps here and there like it dug in a bit deeper in places.

1761301948322.png
1761302068374.png


These signatures sort of lend weight to the precision of the granite vase tech. They are also precise as in sharp straight lines, cuts and arcs ect that show machined level signatures. Together they build a strong case.

You can't keep saying they are all the result of hard work, pounding, abraising and rubbing that just happened to end up looking exactly like modern signatures.

100% and utter modern-pilled. Stop thinking of everything was as the same as it is today and try, actually TRY, and use your intelligence to think on how it would have been done without electronic tools, modern machining, or anything we have today. Because it was done without those sorts of things, and we have evidence for it. You have NOTHING to dispute such findings and you have NOTHING except "Because I say so" claims to try and back yourself up.
 
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stevevw

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That you still refuse to accept mainstream archaeological evidence on the ancient Egyptians for crackpot theories that cannot be actually supported by anything except conspiracy theories.
First, what crackpot theories have I suggested.

Second the evidence that the mainstream or orthodoxy on the tools and methods don't match the signatures that I am pointing out. You have not addressed this and really doubling down that it was the orthodoxy is inadequate as we can see the gap in tools and methods that don't match. It is at least questionable.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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First, what crackpot theories have I suggested.

You 100% know what I'm talking about. It's the same claim you made on the Egyptian technology thread.

Second the evidence that the mainstream or orthodoxy on the tools and methods don't match the signatures that I am pointing out. You have not addressed this and really doubling down that it was the orthodoxy is inadequate as we can see the gap in tools and methods that don't match. It is at least questionable.

No, what's questionable is that you think that your claims are simply the be-all-end-all of anything regarding ancient tech and that you think that we shouldn't question you when we point out that you have no evidence except claims and incredulity from you.
 
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stevevw

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All claims from you and not a shred of evidence.



A strawman fallacy.



It is up to the skeptics, sure. But you can't show a single thing to dispute anything from what the archaeologists, the people who actually study the ancient histories and the people, say. All you have is just claims.



100% and utter modern-pilled. Stop thinking of everything was as the same as it is today and try, actually TRY, and use your intelligence to think on how it would have been done without electronic tools, modern machining, or anything we have today. Because it was done without those sorts of things, and we have evidence for it. You have NOTHING to dispute such findings and you have NOTHING except "Because I say so" claims to try and back yourself up.
I never said anything about electronic tools. You are the one creating the conspiracies. I don't know how they did it. But they did it and it cannot be explained by the tools they claim.

A copper saw first is not big enough. Some of these cuts are well beyond a hand saw. A copper saw is grinding and abrasion out the granite and not sharply cutting it. Its not sharp and narrow. Saws cannot cut arcs or leave router marks dug into the surface. Nor can they plunge into a granite surface from abobe and cut deep into it as its a back and forth motion cutting across the suface.

Nor would anyone cslowly cut a box off course for days and weeks and not realise they were off course. Considering the near perfect straight lines they cut in other examples.

THis needs to be explained and not assumed of fobbed off as conspiracy.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I never said anything about electronic tools. You are the one creating the conspiracies. I don't know how they did it. But they did it and it cannot be explained by the tools they claim.

A copper saw first is not big enough. Some of these cuts are well beyond a hand saw. A copper saw is grinding and abrasion out the granite and not sharply cutting it. Its not sharp and narrow. Saws cannot cut arcs or leave router marks dug into the surface. Nor can they plunge into a granite surface from abobe and cut deep into it as its a back and forth motion cutting across the suface.

Nor would anyone cslowly cut a box off course for days and weeks and not realise they were off course. Considering the near perfect straight lines they cut in other examples.

THis needs to be explained and not assumed of fobbed off as conspiracy.

Oh you didn't say anything about electronic tools, but when you use the word 'modern', then I and others have no other reason to not assume that you're talking about electronic tools.

So look up traditional stone masonry then. Look up how they do things without modern tools. It can be done, easily and handily, especially when a person's entire job is simply to cut stone into shapes for a living.

You want to be a skeptic, that's fine, but actually make the attempt to learn the basics about what you're skeptical about first. Otherwise you look like a fool.
 
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