Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

[rjs330]

Why is it necessary? If Trump isn't specifically forbidden from doing this, it's legal isn't it?

Why not do it then. It removes the argument I've heard that "Congress hasnt authorized this."

That argument would then be removed from the discussion. If it is, what would the next one be I wonder.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Why not do it then. It removes the argument I've heard that "Congress hasnt authorized this."

Congress hasn't authorized this. And it can't be authorized ex post facto.

Congress may indeed abdicate responsibility.

 

[RDKirk]

Congress hasn't authorized this. And it can't be authorized ex post facto.

Sure, it can. You just identified in the War Powers Act that Congress has 60+ days to authorize it ex post facto.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Was all these people on the boats proven to be criminals? And I believe it's illegal to blow criminals up.

 

[RDKirk]

Was all these people on the boats proven to be criminals? And I believe it's illegal to blow criminals up.

Someone should have told the police that when they were destroying the houses different groups of radicals occupied in the 70s.

 

[essentialsaltes]

US is engaged in formal 'armed conflict' with 'terrorist' drug cartels deemed unlawful combatants, Trump says​

 

[Aryeh Jay]

US is engaged in formal 'armed conflict' with 'terrorist' drug cartels deemed unlawful combatants, Trump says​

Well I guess I know where I'm going.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Well I guess I know where I'm going.

Bring me back a banana?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Well I guess I know where I'm going.

Stay safe, and try not to make any naked human pyramids... on camera

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Bring me back a banana?

I was in the Caribbean earlier this year and toured several banana and coffee plantations. There are so many good bananas that people will never eat because they don't ship well.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Stay safe, and try not to make any naked human pyramids... on camera

Not an National Guard MP.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Hegseth announces another US attack on alleged drug boat off Venezuelan coast​

The defense secretary alleged that four "narco-terrorists" were killed.

Earlier this week, the Trump administration told Congress that it believes it's engaged in "armed conflict" with drug cartels and that it believes anyone smuggling illegal drugs should be considered "unlawful combatants." The term is a legal one used during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars by the government to justify lethal force by military troops as well as indefinite detention.

Putting drug runners in the same camp as al-Qaida fighters on the battlefield has prompted skepticism among legal experts who say the legal rationale is a stretch. It's also unclear which groups are being targeted.

One official on Capitol Hill told ABC News this week that lawmakers were interpreting the latest notice on the strikes as the administration "essentially waging a secret war against secret enemies, without the consent of Congress."

 

[RDKirk]

Hegseth announces another US attack on alleged drug boat off Venezuelan coast​

The defense secretary alleged that four "narco-terrorists" were killed.

Earlier this week, the Trump administration told Congress that it believes it's engaged in "armed conflict" with drug cartels and that it believes anyone smuggling illegal drugs should be considered "unlawful combatants." The term is a legal one used during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars by the government to justify lethal force by military troops as well as indefinite detention.

Putting drug runners in the same camp as al-Qaida fighters on the battlefield has prompted skepticism among legal experts who say the legal rationale is a stretch. It's also unclear which groups are being targeted.

One official on Capitol Hill told ABC News this week that lawmakers were interpreting the latest notice on the strikes as the administration "essentially waging a secret war against secret enemies, without the consent of Congress."

Congress and the Supreme Court aren't going to do anything about, so Trump can effectively call them whatever he wants.

Why even bother nattering about what's legal or what's not legal?

The nation voted for this.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Colombian president says US military struck Colombian boat, killed his citizens​

White House called the allegation "baseless."

The last boat struck by the U.S. military in the Caribbean Sea was Colombian with Colombian citizens inside, Colombian President Gustavo Petro said on Wednesday.

A U.S. person familiar with the details confirmed to ABC News that at least one of the boats hit by the military in the Caribbean Sea was believed to be from Colombia.

In a statement, however, the White House pushed back, calling the assertion "baseless" and said Colombia remained an "essential strategic partner."

Hegseth and Trump both posted a video of the strike showing a boat engulfed in flames, but did not provide additional details about who was on the boat, what kinds of drugs they were carrying, where they were headed exactly, or their nationalities.

"The United States looks forward to President Petro publicly retracting his baseless and reprehensible statement so that we can return to a productive dialogue on building a strong, prosperous future for the people of United States and Colombia. Despite policy differences with the current government, Colombia remains an essential strategic partner."

 

[RDKirk]

Colombian president says US military struck Colombian boat, killed his citizens​

White House called the allegation "baseless."

The last boat struck by the U.S. military in the Caribbean Sea was Colombian with Colombian citizens inside, Colombian President Gustavo Petro said on Wednesday.

A U.S. person familiar with the details confirmed to ABC News that at least one of the boats hit by the military in the Caribbean Sea was believed to be from Colombia.

In a statement, however, the White House pushed back, calling the assertion "baseless" and said Colombia remained an "essential strategic partner."

Hegseth and Trump both posted a video of the strike showing a boat engulfed in flames, but did not provide additional details about who was on the boat, what kinds of drugs they were carrying, where they were headed exactly, or their nationalities.

"The United States looks forward to President Petro publicly retracting his baseless and reprehensible statement so that we can return to a productive dialogue on building a strong, prosperous future for the people of United States and Colombia. Despite policy differences with the current government, Colombia remains an essential strategic partner."

"We have no real intelligence of who we struck, but it couldn't have been Columbian because we like Columbia."

 

[ranunculus]

Ecuador says it has no evidence that survivor of a US strike in the Caribbean committed any crime​

U.S. military personnel rescued both men after destroying the submersible on Thursday. Trump said on social media that U.S. intelligence confirmed the vessel was carrying “mostly fentanyl and other illegal drugs.”

There is little evidence to indicate that fentanyl is produced in the Andes, as the vast majority of it flows into the U.S. through Mexico.

Trump has justified the actions, saying the United States is engaged in an “armed conflict” against drug cartels.

He has relied on the same legal reasoning used by the George W. Bush administration when it declared war on terrorism after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. It includes the authority to capture and detain combatants and use lethal force to eliminate their leaders.

 

[ranunculus]

I haven't been following this situation too closely but is the gist of this thread that the US military is in the process of conducting a plurality of extrajudicial killings of non US citizens in foreign territory or international waters for alleged crimes that don't carry the death penalty even if they were found guilty of said crimes?

And that the pretext for this being lawful is that they're being designated members of a terrorist group so that no evidence needs to be presented, no trial needs to occur and human rights don't matter? Is that in the ballpark of what's happening? Just so that I'm understanding.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I haven't been following this situation too closely but is the gist of this thread that the US military is in the process of conducting a plurality of extrajudicial killings of non US citizens in foreign territory or international waters for alleged crimes that don't carry the death penalty even if they were found guilty of said crimes?

And that the pretext for this being lawful is that they're being designated members of a terrorist group so that no evidence needs to be presented, no trial needs to occur and human rights don't matter? Is that in the ballpark of what's happening? Just so that I'm understanding.

Yep, that's the gist

 

[iluvatar5150]

Ecuador says it has no evidence that survivor of a US strike in the Caribbean committed any crime​

While I trust Trump about as far as I can throw him, there are really only a few types of people tooling around the Caribbean in submersibles:

1.) Rich guys
2.) Tourists/divers
3.) Drug smugglers

A 4+-person craft can easily run into the 7 figures (assuming this wasn't a DIY thing), and given how few people (esp in Central America) can afford a million-dollar toy like that, it ought to be pretty easy to identify the operators if they were on the up-and-up.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

While I trust Trump about as far as I can throw him, there are really only a few types of people tooling around the Caribbean in submersibles:

1.) Rich guys
2.) Tourists/divers
3.) Drug smugglers

A 4+-person craft can easily run into the 7 figures (assuming this wasn't a DIY thing), and given how few people (esp in Central America) can afford a million-dollar toy like that, it ought to be pretty easy to identify the operators if they were on the up-and-up.

While this is probably correct, drone striking someone because it looks like they're doing something illegal is not okay. Especially when the law that they're hypothetically breaking does not carry the death penalty.