Hamas now executing Palestinians who tried to help peace.

[ThatRobGuy]

"Just War Theory" is nice on paper, and works if both sets of belligerents are civil.

However, it ignores a couple of key human elements

A) the fact that if both had that level of civility in the first place, it probably wouldn't have escalated to war.
B) when there's still an element within a nation (post-war) that has intentions to re-escalate, making big concessions to them doesn't appease them, it just gives them the leeway they need to regroup and restart the war machine again.


That's why, for instance, making concessions to "ease tensions" hasn't ever really worked with nations like Russia. It may avert acute hostilities, but if the underlying sentiments are still there, you just end up in a repeating pattern of ebbs and flows between feigned cooperation and hostility just below the boiling point.

 

[Always in His Presence]

"Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine"

That is not their stated purpose - from their own mouths - their purpose is to eliminate the Jews.

 

[BCP1928]

That is not their stated purpose - from their own mouths - their purpose is to eliminate the Jews.

That may be, but you were referring to their charter, which I quoted.

 

[Always in His Presence]

That may be, but you were referring to their charter, which I quoted.

They have refused every two state solution they have been offered - why? They don't want a two state - they want one - with all the Jews dead -

They say this - Their mission is not to free Palestine, but to eliminate the Jews - period

Kill ‘all’ Jews, Hamas TV host urges kids​

A children’s show on Al-Aqsa TV, the official Hamas-run television channel broadcasting from Gaza, broadcast a segment calling for the mass killing of Jews.

In a clip of the kids’ TV show “The Pioneers of Tomorrow,” broadcast on May 2 and uploaded Thursday by the MEMRI media watchdog, the host of the program, a young girl in a hijab, interviews two very young children, one of whom says she hopes to be a police officer like her uncle Ahmad.

The host asks what policemen do, and, after establishing that they catch criminals, adds that “they shoot Jews, right?” and stresses to her young guest that “you want to be like him.”

How Hamas arms children for terrorism: previously unseen images revealed by IDF​

Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) presented previously unseen images on Wednesday, shedding light on how terrorist organizations, primarily Hamas and Islamic Jihad, exploit children in the Gaza Strip for military activities and indoctrinate them with hatred towards Israel and Jews.

The IDF statement emphasized that children in Gaza are subjected to early education in animosity, both in schools and through youth movements and camps.

"Children receive military training from a young age, both theoretical and practical," the IDF statement noted. Even during times of relative calm, Hamas organizes summer camps where children are taught various military skills, including shooting guns, navigating tunnels, confronting tanks, and even engaging in simulated soldier kidnappings. These camps serve as initial training grounds for the military wing of Hamas.

Hamas exists for one purpose - to kill Jews

 

[Fantine]

They have refused every two state solution they have been offered - why? They don't want a two state - they want one - with all the Jews dead -

They say this - Their mission is not to free Palestine, but to eliminate the Jews - period

Kill ‘all’ Jews, Hamas TV host urges kids​

How Hamas arms children for terrorism: previously unseen images revealed by IDF​

Hamas exists for one purpose - to kill Jews

During the two years that the US financed Israel's slaughter and starvation of the Palestinians in Gaza, I would listen to news shows and learn that it was virtually impossible to get news directly from Gaza because of the danger, disruption, and chaos they were in.

So what does that mean? That means for the most part Israel controlled the narrative, filling the airwaves with attempt to justify the unjustifiable, an your comments showed that in some cases it worked.

 

[BCP1928]

They have refused every two state solution they have been offered - why?

Why should they accept a two-state solution?

They don't want a two state - they want one - with all the Jews dead

Yet they lived together with Jews for four hundred years in Ottoman Palestine. What changed?

-

They say this - Their mission is not to free Palestine, but to eliminate the Jews - period

Kill ‘all’ Jews, Hamas TV host urges kids​

How Hamas arms children for terrorism: previously unseen images revealed by IDF​

Hamas exists for one purpose - to kill Jews

Right. They should stick to what it says in their charter. But Hamas is a radical terrorist group and really can't be trusted to stick to it.

 

[Say it aint so]

Making excuses for atrocities is synonymous with defending them

One more time. No one is defending Hamas's actions, and btw come defending atrocities, that cuts both ways doesn't it?

 

[Desk trauma]

One more time. No one is defending Hamas's actions

Yes they are:

If their own people collaborated with an enemy that murdered 75,000 of them and starved and displaced 3 million,l those people were treasonous.
Ideally there would be a trial, but:
Jails were razed.
Courthouses were razed.
The landscape would make a good set for apocalyptic movies.
How could the victims have done that?

 

[Say it aint so]

Yes they are:

I can't speak for the poster. I just people wouldn't be so shortsighted thinking Oct 7th was the start of a holy war that has been going on for about a thousand years.

 

[Nithavela]

I can't speak for the poster.

When you say that "nobody says x", you kinda speak for everybody.

 

[Always in His Presence]

During the two years that the US financed Israel's slaughter and starvation of the Palestinians in Gaza, I would listen to news shows and learn that it was virtually impossible to get news directly from Gaza because of the danger, disruption, and chaos they were in.

So what does that mean? That means for the most part Israel controlled the narrative, filling the airwaves with attempt to justify the unjustifiable, an your comments showed that in some cases it worked.

If you are going to quote me - please at least address my post -

Your exposure to news shows has ZERO to do with the plainly stated goals of Hamas to kill the Jews.

Remember, we are talking about Hamas

• Hamas the internationally recognized terrorist organization
• Hamas the group that beat women in public squares
• Hamas who uses children as human shields
• Hamas who executed homosexuals
• Hamas who has the eradication of the Jews in their charter
• Hamas who mutilate babies
• Hamas who kidnapped over 200 people who were doing NOTHING to them, but hey, they were Jews
• Hamas who fired thousands of rockets into civilian markets, schools and hospitals
• Hamas who slaughter children in front of their parents
• Hamas who the world has condemned for their violence
• Hamas who fired on their own citizens trying to get food.
• Hamas the ones who have been offered two state solutions three times - turned them down each time

 

[mark46]

The writing is on the wall for what the plan is, and Hamas doesn't have a seat at the table in it, so they're trying desperately to see if they can seize upon a temporary power vacuum as a last-ditch effort.

In reading up on the plan proposals...

Egypt and Jordan are slated to be a temporary "authority" during a transitional phase (with advisors from US and other Arab states - and perhaps some peacekeeping forces from Indonesia and Pakistan), then ultimately, transfer the leadership back over to the Palestinian Authority along with a technocratic Palestinian committee.

Agreed.

I would note that this is still open to some negotiation.

The compromise is for the new Palestinian government to NOT be the PA. BTW, the group working out all of this has a list of 15 names of Palestinians that Israel has worked with before.

 

[Always in His Presence]

A quick history lesson:

With the exception of one time in 78 years of offering peace, including numerous two state solutions - only one side has resisted peace time and time again.

How many times has Israel given land to promote peace?

Gaza Strip (2005)

• Event: Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza.
• Details: Israel dismantled all settlements and withdrew military forces from the Gaza Strip.
• Outcome: Control was transferred to the Palestinian Authority, but Hamas later took over in 2007. Israel still controls Gaza’s borders, airspace, and maritime access.

2. West Bank (Oslo Accords, 1990s)

• Event: Oslo I (1993) and Oslo II (1995) agreements.
• Details: Israel agreed to phased withdrawals from parts of the West Bank and transferred limited administrative control to the newly formed Palestinian Authority.
• Outcome: The West Bank was divided into Areas A, B, and C:
• Area A: Full Palestinian civil and security control.
• Area B: Palestinian civil control, Israeli security control.
• Area C: Full Israeli control (still about 60% of the West Bank).

 

[BCP1928]

How many times has Israel given land to promote peace?

It doesn't matter to the Palestinians. They don't think the land was legitimately Israel's land to give in the first place.

 

[Say it aint so]

When you say that "nobody says x", you kinda speak for everybody.

...or, I will let that person speak for themselves.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

During the two years that the US financed Israel's slaughter and starvation of the Palestinians in Gaza, I would listen to news shows and learn that it was virtually impossible to get news directly from Gaza because of the danger, disruption, and chaos they were in.

So what does that mean? That means for the most part Israel controlled the narrative, filling the airwaves with attempt to justify the unjustifiable, an your comments showed that in some cases it worked.

Israel is not controlling the airwave today.

Hamss is killing their own citizens. Lining them up and putting bullets in the head of those they deemed enemy.

Why haven't world leaders and advocates condemned Hamas for harming innocent Palestinians? Where is the outrage over these lives lost? Why aren't college students demanding an end to aid sent to Hamas?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

It doesn't matter to the Palestinians. They don't think the land was legitimately Israel's land to give in the first place.

So what do they want ?

 

[Say it aint so]

 

[BCP1928]

So what do they want ?

The former Ottoman Palestine.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

The former Ottoman Palestine.

How will it be achieved?