Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

[eclipsenow]

Who cares what some leftist medical health experts said when they have never examined him. We have no idea who these people are or their prejudices or bias.

If you're going to resort to a Bulverism - please provide comprehensive data that these mental health experts are all registered Socialists.

Trump has NPD. This is known.

I suppose its along the same lines as a bunch of leftist doctors proclaiming it was good to have kids medicalized for gender transitioning. Only to find they have been wrong and with the WPATH files we discovered they knew they were wrong.

Logical error - "Tainting the pool". AKA The association fallacy.

This happens when someone argues that because A is associated with B, then A must share some relevant property of B — even though the association is irrelevant to the claim.

So pardon me

I won't pardon logical errors and sarcasm.

Also - you might think of me as 'radical left' - but Americans are binary in a world of nuance.

Bernie Sanders really would be in Australia's far right!

I've also never made a claim that illegals commit more crime than American citizens so the second study is irrelevant.

Then I don't know WHAT your claim against them is as you keep calling them criminals etc - and sound just like Trump and all his demagoguery.

And Ive also said, even IF illegals committed less crime, its irrelevant. We shouldn't have to put up with ANY crime feom them, because THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE PERIOD.

You don't know that. You assert that because "the other" is what demagogues create so much FUD about.
But you don't know that.
You don't know them. You don't know what they are fleeing. You don't know what percentage of them are actually REFUGEES!
You have been conditioned by the culture wars to believe certain things about them.

IF they are making your country richer, and...
IF they are MORE law abiding than the average American-born citizen...
WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT?

Can YOU trace your family tree back 10,000 years in the America's?
Aren't MOST of you immigrants?

 

[rjs330]

If you're going to resort to a Bulverism - please provide comprehensive data that these mental health experts are all registered Socialists.

Trump has NPD. This is known.

I don't have to. I don't trust them or believe them.

He has never been officially diagnosed with that. Some random, leftist psych doctors don't count.

Logical error - "Tainting the pool". AKA The association fallacy.

I dont care what you call it. As has been proven over and over again individual "experts" are often extremely biased and unreliable.

Bernie Sanders really would be in Australia's far right!

I dont know it thats true, but if it is true, then you definitely are a far left country that has lost its sense of what really is the center and the right. Therefore everything that one says must be taken in the light of far left thought.

Then I don't know WHAT your claim against them is as you keep calling them criminals etc - and sound just like Trump and all his demagoguery.

Rhey are 100% criminals. When you come here illegally you are a criminal. It doesn't mean you are violent or will do horrific things. Once here I'm not saying they will commit more crime than a US citizen. But I also don't believe they commit less crime per capita either.

You don't know them. You don't know what they are fleeing. You don't know what percentage of them are actually REFUGEES!
You have been conditioned by the culture wars to believe certain things about them.

I don't care. Its because they have been allowed to flood into this country illegally that we have allowed really bad people to.come with them. We do know how many claim asylum and how many dont meet rhe criteria. 60% of seekers are denied asylum. The illegals are not all claiming asylum. That means the VAST majority aren't legit.

The only thing I believe about illegals is rhat they do NOT have a right to be here. Period. Every single one of them should be sent back home. Every one. Then they can apply and return legally. That's how it should be done. Otherwise we should have no immigration law at all and just have an open border.

Anyway. I'm done talking with you about this. When you start complaining about your own country as often as you complain about mine I will re-engage cause yours is worse than mine.

 

[rjs330]

Can YOU trace your family tree back 10,000 years in the America's?

No I can't. I'm an immigrant. But guess what. We came legally. We wanted to come and become Americans and join the American culture and assimilate.

So I have no problem with illegals who want to come and assimilate and become Americans and join the American culture. We did.

 

[eclipsenow]

I don't have to. I don't trust them or believe them.

I know - actually reading outside your comfort zone and trying to disprove something like an adult is hard. Better to do some magic handwaving and assertive words and try and dress up your own political bias as self-evident fact.

Except - the only facts contributed to this point were mine.
There REALLY ARE over 230 mental health experts in whose professional opinion and diagnoses from decades of public behaviour and thousands of hours of footage REALLY DO diagnose him with a permanent, incurable Personality Disorder.

Which is self-evident if you are informed enough to discern that disorder.
I only have an intro to Psych course as a part of my Advanced Diploma in Social Sciences - so I don't count myself as an expert. But those experts I respect?

They say it's a slam dunk!

I dont care what you call it.

You should - because that's the logical error your political biases and general attitude made you prone to.

I dont know it thats true, but if it is true, then you definitely are a far left country that has lost its sense of what really is the center and the right.

Incorrect! You're SO FAR to the right you don't have a CLUE what is killing your economy!
The answer to healthcare is just SO UNIMAGINABLE to you!
But to those of us who enjoy SIMPLE, EASY TO ACCESS UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE... we just laugh. We laugh at the USA asserting it's dominance in the world in all things - when it can't solve something as basic as healthcare.

We're sad for the poor, and it breaks out hearts to see another 10 to 16 million Americans kicked off welfare. But we laugh at your right-wing nutters going on about how impossible true, easy to access UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE is. We really do!

And to think - we achieve this at half the cost!

All your pampered health business CEO's must really deserve their second yacht and Swiss chalet for their ski trips - because they're bankrupting your country and robbing the poor of healthcare to get those toys!

When you come here illegally you are a criminal.

Sorry - but America has signed up to the international charter for human rights and refugee rights.

They're not "illegal" until thorough and due process has determined that they do NOT have refugee status!

So no matter how much you want to rant ILLEGAL! ILLEGAL!
It's just not technically true.

I don't care.

I know you don't care - but it's sad to see so many American Christians this filled with culture-war HATE for the outsider and vulnerable. It's distorting American Christianity.

You are victims of Trump's NPD and associated demagoguery - and don't even know it.

60% of seekers are denied asylum.

Aren't you the guy who magic handwaves social sciences statistics?
So how do you come to "Believe" this one?
Is it because it's convenient to your worldview?

And - assuming I go with your numbers just for the sake of the argument - doesn't that mean that 40% ARE LEGITIMATE REFUGEES UNDER AMERICAN LAW and therefore NOT CRIMINALS!?

Do you want to revise the statement that they are ALL criminals - if in the next paragraph you're telling me just under half are not?

 

[rjs330]

Do you want to revise the statement that they are ALL criminals - if in the next paragraph you're telling me just under half are not?

No all of them have committed the crime of crossing illegally. Once they claim refugee status then they have to be adjudicated. Eventually they can be found to have asylum status. The only way to come here legally is to present yourself to a border guard at a proper border crossing and claim asylum. If you cross the border illegally you still have committed a crime.

 

[eclipsenow]

You need to look up the terms of the refugee convention. Actually going into another country to claim asylum is what is legal, not hovering at the border begging while the enemy comes to kill you.

 

[rjs330]

You need to look up the terms of the refugee convention. Actually going into another country to claim asylum is what is legal, not hovering at the border begging while the enemy comes to kill you.

You now what its not? Its not crossing the border illegally and getting picked up months later then claiming asylum. Thats why they did it wrong. Only 5% of illegals who are caught crossing illegally in 2022 asylum seekers. Also of the 1 million who stopped at the border the right way claiming asylum, only 40,000 were granted it.

Anyway Ive lost interest now. Time to move on.

 

[eclipsenow]

What does the law say? What does the convention that America signed up to say?

You can sit there thumping the arm of your armchair, and asserting your opinion with all your might, but it doesn't mean it's grounded in fact.

Meanwhile - getting back to the OP - I'm so glad Trump is on it!

This Portland warzone rebellion is getting wild!

 

[rjs330]

We become what we allow. The protestors who are blocking roads, blocking ICE facilities, attacking agents are the lowest common denominator and as long as we as a society allow this then we become this.

I've been actively watching as many videos as I can and I have to say I believe ICE is doing this wrong. Part of the reason is all they do is drive the protestors back so they can get in and out. My belief is that this doea not create law and order because they just come back. What should be done is that they should come in with trucks and then start arresting everyone they can who refuses to move. Put em in the trucks and haul them away to the nearest federal security facility and book them in. Then do that every single time. Have body cameras going have other employees filming and documenting when they were told to leave and their refusal to do so. Tell them twice we and when they refuse you arrest them.

This is a way for the guard to be used without actually having to police anyone. They are the logistics and transportation mechanism for arrests.

I'm sure people will come back after being bailed out, but they could be arrested again and again for all I care. This in NOT protesting, this is obstructionist and Disorderly and if they push an agent like I saw then its assault.

But bottom line the Agents MUST do a better job of doing their job to document and record their interactions and reasoning for arrests. What they are doing now, just isn't working.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

How much is this costing our government? While we our in a shutdown.

 

[eclipsenow]

We become what we allow. The protestors who are blocking roads, blocking ICE facilities, attacking agents are the lowest common denominator and as long as we as a society allow this then we become this.

Um - lowest COMMON denominator?

If you count the 7 million peaceful "No Kings" protestors - and the many congratulation and thank you announcements from Police Chief's in various cities - I think you'll find the behaviour of the COMMON denominator is higher than at Trump's MAGA rallies!

I've been actively watching as many videos as I can and I have to say I believe ICE is doing this wrong. Part of the reason is all they do is drive the protestors back so they can get in and out. My belief is that this doea not create law and order because they just come back. What should be done is that they should come in with trucks and then start arresting everyone they can who refuses to move.

Ice are not trained in policing. They should not do anything of the sort.

Let the police do the policing - or does EVERY ROLE in MAGALAND have to be utterly twisted by Trump?

This is a way for the guard to be used without actually having to police anyone.

Nope. The moment they start doing this - it's going to escalate and go horribly wrong!
They are not trained for this - and it's not their roel!

Their role? Actual REBELLION against the government. As in people who want to end the USA!
Peaceful protesters who want to see DEMOCRACY and the rule of law applied to the treatment of immigrants - many of whom you have admitted are legitimate refugees lawfully there - are NOT REBELS!

Got it?

 

[rjs330]

How much is this costing our government? While we our in a shutdown.

I'm sure its costing a lot. But it wouldn't have to cost anything if the protestors weren't obstructing and being violent toward ICE. If they quit trying to obstruct and act violent we wouldn't have to worry about cost because the agents would just do their jobs.

 

[eclipsenow]

I'm sure its costing a lot. But it wouldn't have to cost anything if the protestors weren't obstructing and being violent toward ICE. If they quit trying to obstruct and act violent we wouldn't have to worry about cost because the agents would just do their jobs.

The money Trump has poured into CRUELTY and suddenly expanding ICE without the proper police training is enormous - and if it were a national military it would be the 17th largest in the world. (Equivalent to Canada.) It's the largest Federal Department now - and is a particularly bad look given he let the world's richest man cut all those other departments!

Soon people will realise that Trump's economic delusions (like tariffs) and lies (about immigrants) and cruelty (against minorities and immigrants) are not sustainable government policies. Imagine if, instead of ICE, he had put the money into less punitive forms of immigrant processing so that the many valid refugees could be automatically given greencards and even some of the economic migrants might have a better chance of becoming citizens?

The statistics show they are half as likely to commit violent crime, and a quarter as likely to commit property crime (theft).

 

[BCP1928]

The money Trump has poured into CRUELTY and suddenly expanding ICE without the proper police training is enormous - and if it were a national military it would be the 17th largest in the world. (Equivalent to Canada.) It's the largest Federal Department now - and is a particularly bad look given he let the world's richest man cut all those other departments!

Soon people will realise that Trump's economic delusions (like tariffs) and lies (about immigrants) and cruelty (against minorities and immigrants) are not sustainable government policies. Imagine if, instead of ICE, he had put the money into less punitive forms of immigrant processing so that the many valid refugees could be automatically given greencards and even some of the economic migrants might have a better chance of becoming citizens?

The statistics show they are half as likely to commit violent crime, and a quarter as likely to commit property crime (theft).

But they still would be committing the worst crime of all--contaminating the purity of our cultural heritage. How are you going to stop them from doing that?

 

[Servus]

The money Trump has poured into CRUELTY and suddenly expanding ICE without the proper police training is enormous - and if it were a national military it would be the 17th largest in the world. (Equivalent to Canada.) It's the largest Federal Department now - and is a particularly bad look given he let the world's richest man cut all those other departments!

Soon people will realise that Trump's economic delusions (like tariffs) and lies (about immigrants) and cruelty (against minorities and immigrants) are not sustainable government policies. Imagine if, instead of ICE, he had put the money into less punitive forms of immigrant processing so that the many valid refugees could be automatically given greencards and even some of the economic migrants might have a better chance of becoming citizens?

The statistics show they are half as likely to commit violent crime, and a quarter as likely to commit property crime (theft).

ICE wouldn't need to be so large of a force if Biden and Harris had maintained border control.