Church meeting with minister - can you help?

[ChubbyCherub]

Hi all,

I've secured a meeting with the minister and director of ministries at my church to go over some of the issues I have regarding their teachings or, rather, lack of with regards to sin, in the main.

I have tried to be very diplomatic and understanding in our email correspondence, so I hope that they will see that I am acting in good faith as a concerned member of the congregation.

Further to this, I just wanted some advice from you with regards on how/if to address certain points.

My issues are as follows:

1. Sin, the definition, how it pertains to our world, avoidance of, engagement in and why Jesus was/is needed to save us from sin, is and has not been addressed in the year I have been attending
2. Sermons are only about 'love' and historical information in the Bible with no mention of how any of it pertains to modern life
3. Sermons are 20-30 minutes long following 30-45 minutes of torturous 'praise worship' sprinkled throughout requests for donations, volunteering, charity and 'upcoming events'. I liken this time to the trailers before a movie starts
4. There is no call to the alter. People who want to talk about being saved are invited to 'find a member' to discuss this with after the sermon concludes. How can a new person find people they don't know?
5. The format for services seems to follow a US theme so is very commercial in nature. I was raised in 'megachurches' where the pastors ran the church like a business instead of like a church and I feel this church is using the same trainers. I did, in fact, mention to this in passing to the lead minister who didn't confirm or deny that there was an influence from the US
6. The 'lead' pastor didn't respond to my initial email to the office regarding above and has instead, I assume, asked another minister to deal with my emails and raise a meeting request. I find this offensive. I intend to clarify why this is with the attendees but does this seem strange to anyone else? Happy to reconsider being baffled or offended in light of alternate views
7. The church continually references being multi-national but I feel like the sermons are watered down due to English not being the first language of many so I am missing out on learning, spiritual growth, as a result

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.

I want to ensure that the discussion I have with those in attendance is Christ led. I am praying about this, almost daily, as meeting with a church to question their approach is not something I have ever done. I would value advice on how/if to address the points above.

If I am not convinced of their sincerity/motives, it will mean that I will leave the church and seek a new one but I wanted to make sure that the current church had a chance to address some of these things before I abandoned ship.

Many thanks for your help in advance and God bless.

 

[Delvianna]

I first want to say, Good on you trying to keep leadership accountable for how they run the church and what they preach!

The 'lead' pastor didn't respond to my initial email to the office regarding above and has instead, I assume, asked another minister to deal with my emails and raise a meeting request. I find this offensive. I intend to clarify why this is with the attendees but does this seem strange to anyone else?

Strange? No... Rude? Yes. I've noticed that senior or lead pastors send to get a really swelled head where they don't want to be involved in anything that they deem is beneath them or not a proper use of their time. It's like they forgot the point of what a pastor is supposed to be.

I want to ensure that the discussion I have with those in attendance is Christ led. I am praying about this, almost daily, as meeting with a church to question their approach is not something I have ever done. I would value advice on how/if to address the points above.

Just keep in mind that they might just flat out reject you. Be nice, be sincere, make your points but I wouldn't argue them. If they're set in their ways and aren't interesting in listening (which is probable), then there is no point in pressing a point or debating. Nod, thank them for their time and then decide what you as an individual is going to do. Stay, or leave. Present an opportunity for correction, but that is all you can do. I do pray that they are open and receptive to what you have to say and not just defensive. May God bless your endeavors!

 

[ChubbyCherub]

I first want to say, Good on you trying to keep leadership accountable for how they run the church and what they preach!



Strange? No... Rude? Yes. I've noticed that senior or lead pastors send to get a really swelled head where they don't want to be involved in anything that they deem is beneath them or not a proper use of their time. It's like they forgot the point of what a pastor is supposed to be.


Just keep in mind that they might just flat out reject you. Be nice, be sincere, make your points but I wouldn't argue them. If they're set in their ways and aren't interesting in listening (which is probable), then there is no point in pressing a point or debating. Nod, thank them for their time and then decide what you as an individual is going to do. Stay, or leave. Present an opportunity for correction, but that is all you can do. I do pray that they are open and receptive to what you have to say and not just defensive. May God bless your endeavors!

Thanks so much for this...I wasn't sure how or if to approach them at all so I just prayed on it and decided to ask them if people ever have a conversation or just quietly leave? To my surprise, they responded with a meeting request so I feel obliged to attend and lay things out for them to address. At least they are willing to go this far, I guess?

I'm sorry to learn that lead pastors fail to 'lead' but I see this a lot in business so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I think this is part of the issue regarding how the church is currently being operated but TBC.

 

[Delvianna]

Thanks so much for this...I wasn't sure how or if to approach them at all so I just prayed on it and decided to ask them if people ever have a conversation or just quietly leave? To my surprise, they responded with a meeting request so I feel obliged to attend and lay things out for them to address. At least they are willing to go this far, I guess?

I'm sorry to learn that lead pastors fail to 'lead' but I see this a lot in business so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I think this is part of the issue regarding how the church is currently being operated but TBC.

Welcome! I definitely think you should because it gives them an opportunity to change and I am glad they are taking the time to sit down with you at least. So hopefully, good things come out of it!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi all,

I've secured a meeting with the minister and director of ministries at my church to go over some of the issues I have regarding their teachings or, rather, lack of with regards to sin, in the main.

I have tried to be very diplomatic and understanding in our email correspondence, so I hope that they will see that I am acting in good faith as a concerned member of the congregation.

Further to this, I just wanted some advice from you with regards on how/if to address certain points.

My issues are as follows:

1. Sin, the definition, how it pertains to our world, avoidance of, engagement in and why Jesus was/is needed to save us from sin, is and has not been addressed in the year I have been attending
2. Sermons are only about 'love' and historical information in the Bible with no mention of how any of it pertains to modern life
3. Sermons are 20-30 minutes long following 30-45 minutes of torturous 'praise worship' sprinkled throughout requests for donations, volunteering, charity and 'upcoming events'. I liken this time to the trailers before a movie starts
4. There is no call to the alter. People who want to talk about being saved are invited to 'find a member' to discuss this with after the sermon concludes. How can a new person find people they don't know?
5. The format for services seems to follow a US theme so is very commercial in nature. I was raised in 'megachurches' where the pastors ran the church like a business instead of like a church and I feel this church is using the same trainers. I did, in fact, mention to this in passing to the lead minister who didn't confirm or deny that there was an influence from the US
6. The 'lead' pastor didn't respond to my initial email to the office regarding above and has instead, I assume, asked another minister to deal with my emails and raise a meeting request. I find this offensive. I intend to clarify why this is with the attendees but does this seem strange to anyone else? Happy to reconsider being baffled or offended in light of alternate views
7. The church continually references being multi-national but I feel like the sermons are watered down due to English not being the first language of many so I am missing out on learning, spiritual growth, as a result

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.

I want to ensure that the discussion I have with those in attendance is Christ led. I am praying about this, almost daily, as meeting with a church to question their approach is not something I have ever done. I would value advice on how/if to address the points above.

If I am not convinced of their sincerity/motives, it will mean that I will leave the church and seek a new one but I wanted to make sure that the current church had a chance to address some of these things before I abandoned ship.

Many thanks for your help in advance and God bless.

It sounds like these issues are fundamental, so in my humble opinion, I would consider looking for another church that more aligns with your fundamental beliefs. We should be looking for a church that aligns with what the Bible says. Be like the Bereans and search the Scriptures to see whether these thing were so.

Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.



God bless!

 

[ChubbyCherub]

It sounds like these issues are fundamental, so in my humble opinion, I would consider looking for another church that more aligns with your fundamental beliefs. We should be looking for a churches that aligns with what the Bible says. Be like the Bereans and search the Scriptures to see whether these thing were so.

Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.



God bless!

Thanks! Their statement of Faith is fundamental which is why I joined in the first place. It's helpful to know that I took the right approach, initially!

 

[ChubbyCherub]

It sounds like these issues are fundamental, so in my humble opinion, I would consider looking for another church that more aligns with your fundamental beliefs. We should be looking for a church that aligns with what the Bible says. Be like the Bereans and search the Scriptures to see whether these thing were so.

Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.



God bless!

Beliefs - FIEC

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thanks! Their statement of Faith is fundamental which is why I joined in the first place. It's helpful to know that I took the right approach, initially

Good for you to holding them accountable to their statements of faith. Keep praying and He will guide you.

 

[DragonFox91]

I am so happy you are doing this. #1 would be a huge problem for me, & #2 & #7 are tied to it. What you are doing takes a lot of courage.

I think it's okay you're doing this b/c you're part of that 'flock.' If the shepherd is leading the sheep astray, then you have every right to at least mention it.

A reminder to be pleasant & courteous. I don't want to say 'try to see his point of view' like he should win you over, but remember he is a human being.

Also remember: we might not get the results it sounds like the church needs, & that's okay. They are ultimately free of what we think they should do to do how they please.

Also: remember your Sword: go w/ a verse or 2 backing where we think there's error.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi all,

I've secured a meeting with the minister and director of ministries at my church to go over some of the issues I have regarding their teachings or, rather, lack of with regards to sin, in the main.

I have tried to be very diplomatic and understanding in our email correspondence, so I hope that they will see that I am acting in good faith as a concerned member of the congregation.

Further to this, I just wanted some advice from you with regards on how/if to address certain points.

My issues are as follows:

1. Sin, the definition, how it pertains to our world, avoidance of, engagement in and why Jesus was/is needed to save us from sin, is and has not been addressed in the year I have been attending
2. Sermons are only about 'love' and historical information in the Bible with no mention of how any of it pertains to modern life
3. Sermons are 20-30 minutes long following 30-45 minutes of torturous 'praise worship' sprinkled throughout requests for donations, volunteering, charity and 'upcoming events'. I liken this time to the trailers before a movie starts
4. There is no call to the alter. People who want to talk about being saved are invited to 'find a member' to discuss this with after the sermon concludes. How can a new person find people they don't know?
5. The format for services seems to follow a US theme so is very commercial in nature. I was raised in 'megachurches' where the pastors ran the church like a business instead of like a church and I feel this church is using the same trainers. I did, in fact, mention to this in passing to the lead minister who didn't confirm or deny that there was an influence from the US
6. The 'lead' pastor didn't respond to my initial email to the office regarding above and has instead, I assume, asked another minister to deal with my emails and raise a meeting request. I find this offensive. I intend to clarify why this is with the attendees but does this seem strange to anyone else? Happy to reconsider being baffled or offended in light of alternate views
7. The church continually references being multi-national but I feel like the sermons are watered down due to English not being the first language of many so I am missing out on learning, spiritual growth, as a result

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.

I want to ensure that the discussion I have with those in attendance is Christ led. I am praying about this, almost daily, as meeting with a church to question their approach is not something I have ever done. I would value advice on how/if to address the points above.

If I am not convinced of their sincerity/motives, it will mean that I will leave the church and seek a new one but I wanted to make sure that the current church had a chance to address some of these things before I abandoned ship.

Many thanks for your help in advance and God bless.

A more loving approach to making changes in a congregation involves starting with positive conversations, offering to help implement solutions, and demonstrating the desired changes through your actions. Focus on shared goals and collaboration rather than criticism.
Blessings


-

 

[Delvianna]

A more loving approach to making changes in a congregation involves starting with positive conversations, offering to help implement solutions, and demonstrating the desired changes through your actions. Focus on shared goals and collaboration rather than criticism.
Blessings


-

I'm curious how OP can be the change through actions, when all their points is leadership problem based and they're not a leader in the church? I'm legitimately curious.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I was raised in 'megachurches' where the pastors ran the church like a business instead of like a church and I feel this church is using the same trainers

I mean no disrespect in this comment, but it sounds like you have misgivings about the church you were raised in yet you then joined another just like it. While it is admirable that you are going to share your concerns with your church leadership, perhaps you would be well served to look for a church that is not like the one you were raised in, which you didn't like so much in the first place. We naturally tend to gravitate to the familiar. Sometimes it is useful to step out of familiar territory and our comfort zone. Best wishes.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hi all,

I've secured a meeting with the minister and director of ministries at my church to go over some of the issues I have regarding their teachings or, rather, lack of with regards to sin, in the main.

I have tried to be very diplomatic and understanding in our email correspondence, so I hope that they will see that I am acting in good faith as a concerned member of the congregation.

Further to this, I just wanted some advice from you with regards on how/if to address certain points.

My issues are as follows:

1. Sin, the definition, how it pertains to our world, avoidance of, engagement in and why Jesus was/is needed to save us from sin, is and has not been addressed in the year I have been attending
2. Sermons are only about 'love' and historical information in the Bible with no mention of how any of it pertains to modern life
3. Sermons are 20-30 minutes long following 30-45 minutes of torturous 'praise worship' sprinkled throughout requests for donations, volunteering, charity and 'upcoming events'. I liken this time to the trailers before a movie starts
4. There is no call to the alter. People who want to talk about being saved are invited to 'find a member' to discuss this with after the sermon concludes. How can a new person find people they don't know?
5. The format for services seems to follow a US theme so is very commercial in nature. I was raised in 'megachurches' where the pastors ran the church like a business instead of like a church and I feel this church is using the same trainers. I did, in fact, mention to this in passing to the lead minister who didn't confirm or deny that there was an influence from the US
6. The 'lead' pastor didn't respond to my initial email to the office regarding above and has instead, I assume, asked another minister to deal with my emails and raise a meeting request. I find this offensive. I intend to clarify why this is with the attendees but does this seem strange to anyone else? Happy to reconsider being baffled or offended in light of alternate views
7. The church continually references being multi-national but I feel like the sermons are watered down due to English not being the first language of many so I am missing out on learning, spiritual growth, as a result

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.

I want to ensure that the discussion I have with those in attendance is Christ led. I am praying about this, almost daily, as meeting with a church to question their approach is not something I have ever done. I would value advice on how/if to address the points above.

If I am not convinced of their sincerity/motives, it will mean that I will leave the church and seek a new one but I wanted to make sure that the current church had a chance to address some of these things before I abandoned ship.

Many thanks for your help in advance and God bless.

Being that church leaders are typically set in their thinking by personal disposition along with commitment to certain principles they think the Lord has "lain upon their hearts," you probably won't move the needle on the dial very much if any. If you're going to chat with them and let them know that you think they need to make improvements, go into it with a grain of salt or two since they most likely will dismiss your claims. It won't be because you didn't do it correctly. It'll simply be the case since you're dealing in real time with fellow human beings, especially with those who may feel assured of their position as leaders.

In other words, try to go into it with some patience and low expectations.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I'm curious how OP can be the change through actions, when all their points is leadership problem based and they're not a leader in the church? I'm legitimately curious.

The only way to influence those who lead over you is to become a leader yourself as an Elder. The OP indicates being in this congregation for only a year. If indeed the OP loves and cares about the congregants and not just their own " needs", changes can come about with time, commitment, patience and especially love. Only then will this poster earn the respect they seek.

 

[David Lamb]

1. Sermons are 20-30 minutes long following 30-45 minutes of torturous 'praise worship' sprinkled throughout requests for donations, volunteering, charity and 'upcoming events'. I liken this time to the trailers before a movie starts

I have heard good, biblical sermons which are short, medium length, and long. I would say that whether the sermon is biblical or not is far more important than its length.

2. There is no call to the alter. People who want to talk about being saved are invited to 'find a member' to discuss this with after the sermon concludes. How can a new person find people they don't know?

None of the churches I have been a member of has an altar, or a call to an altar. I agree that unsaved people should be given clear information on how to find out more about the way of salvation. The preacher could say, "Have a word with me after the service," or "My contact details are on the notice board/service sheet (or where ever)." Altar calls tend to be associated with the idea of "going to the front" and repeating the "sinner's prayer." Many churches would say that such a practice is not described in the bible.

I do wish you all the best for your meeting, and may God guide you as to where you should be in membership in he future.

 

[timf]

My experiences over 75 years have led me to be less optimistic about being able to make any positive changes in a church. Churches usually have three problem areas, doctrine, personalities, and structure. Most people do not fully appreciate the structural problems created by running a church as a machine-like organizational system.

Christianity was always supposed to be about relationships, us with God and each other. Organizational systems kill relationships. They operate on inertia. The religious system that had formed at the time of Jesus wanted him dead rather than consider change. Humans almost always form these systems (sometimes called bureaucracies)

I would suggest finding a small bible church or baptist church (if you are interested in alter calls). When churches get smaller, it is difficult to hide from each other and we are forced into actual relationships (which are messy because we are human). In a small church you can more easily detecty if there is an openness to learning and growth or if blind acceptance of a doctrine package is expected,

 

[Delvianna]

The only way to influence those who lead over you is to become a leader yourself as an Elder. The OP indicates being in this congregation for only a year. If indeed the OP loves and cares about the congregants and not just their own " needs", changes can come about with time, commitment, patience and especially love. Only then will this poster earn the respect they seek.

Thank you for your reply. I have 1 other question and I get what you're saying. I don't want to assume OP's gender, but if they are female, how would they be able to be an Elder? The vast majority of Christian churches do not allow women in that sort of leadership. So how would a woman be the change in that respect?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Thank you for your reply. I have 1 other question and I get what you're saying. I don't want to assume OP's gender, but if they are female, how would they be able to be an Elder? The vast majority of Christian churches do not allow women in that sort of leadership. So how would a woman be the change in that respect?

This is a whole other dilemma that I am not prepared to address due to derailing the subject at hand.

FYI
Paul said women should stay silent.

 

[Delvianna]

This is a whole other dilemma that I am not prepared to address due to derailing the subject at hand.

FYI
Paul said women should stay silent.

But see I dont see it as derailing. How is a woman supposed to, and according to you,

demonstrating the desired changes through your actions.

If the change is leadership based and so far your only answer is to become a leader themselves. So my question is very much relevant. If a woman has these issues, what do they do? I can only guess based off your last reply that you mean they say nothing? Because that's not scriptural when we are all called to hold each other accountable.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi all,

I've secured a meeting with the minister and director of ministries at my church to go over some of the issues I have regarding their teachings or, rather, lack of with regards to sin, in the main.

I have tried to be very diplomatic and understanding in our email correspondence, so I hope that they will see that I am acting in good faith as a concerned member of the congregation.

Further to this, I just wanted some advice from you with regards on how/if to address certain points.

My issues are as follows:

1. Sin, the definition, how it pertains to our world, avoidance of, engagement in and why Jesus was/is needed to save us from sin, is and has not been addressed in the year I have been attending

1 john 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW".
Rom 5 Sin came into the world via one man's sin. Adam
Rom 3; ALL have sinned
Only the Gospel can save us from the penalty of sin

A "feel good" message every week will not want to address the issue of sin.

1. Sermons are only about 'love' and historical information in the Bible with no mention of how any of it pertains to modern life

Some people think of the Bible as nothing more than "interesting culture, and ancient text"

No 'the word of God" as we see it in Heb 4.

1. Sermons are 20-30 minutes long following 30-45 minutes of torturous 'praise worship' sprinkled throughout requests for donations, volunteering, charity and 'upcoming events'. I liken this time to the trailers before a movie starts

The focus and priority of the group is revealed in what they actually do.

"By their fruits you shall know them" Matt 7