The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

[Hentenza]

The law is no longer our master, God is; that's the differnce between the old and new covenants! He fulfills the law in us; He 'puts it in our minds and writes it on our hearts'.

Think carefully. Is the law He puts in our minds the whole of the Jewish law?

 

[Hentenza]

No, we fulfill the Sabbath requirement, that obligation to God, on the Lord's Day as Christians always have. That's a way in which the Spirit of the law is still fulfilled-and can't be used to, for example, now condone murder since the Law forbids it.

So we are choosy then and only fulfill the commandments that we want to fulfill?

 

[Colo Millz]

The 10 commandments, except for the 4th commandment, are summarized in Jesus two commandments. The Christian follows Jesus two commandments. My argument.

So we're required to follow a summary but not what it summarizes.

Or something.

 

[Hentenza]

Jesus didn’t abolish the Law — he transformed it from an external code into an interior grace.

Galatians 6:2

All 613 commandments of the law? You sure?

 

[Colo Millz]

So we are choosy then and only fulfill the commandments that we want to fulfill?

Christ himself is our sabbath - therefore we fulfil the 4th commandment in our Sunday celebration of new creation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The

The 10 commandments, except for the 4th commandment, are summarized in Jesus two commandments. The Christian follows Jesus two commandments. My argument.

Making this call would make one their own god.

Removing the 4th commandment is removing God. This commandment is tied to God our Creator Exo 20:11, God our Sanctifier Eze 20:12, the sign between God and His people Eze 20:20 the God we are called to worship Rev 14:7 its basically removing God, no wonder why it profanes Him His words, not mine Eze 22:26.

No wonder why God said Remember this commandment because He knew man would try to reduce them to an umbilical number. Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 God's Testimony cannot be edited Mat5:18 Psa 89:34 because man is not above God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Christ himself is our sabbath - therefore we fulfil the 4th commandment in our Sunday celebration of new creation.

Nonsense. Jesus didn't turn into the 4th commandment

 

[Colo Millz]

All 613 commandments of the law? You sure?

Ritual or national commandments no longer apply, the moral law endures — now written “on hearts” by the Spirit (Jeremiah 31:33; Romans 8:4).

 

[Colo Millz]

Nonsense. Jesus didn't turn into the 4th commandment

“Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
Matthew 11:28

He is our rest — our Sabbath in person.

Through His death and resurrection, He brings humanity into the true rest of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
Matthew 11:28

He is our rest — our Sabbath in person.

Through His death and resurrection, He brings humanity into the true rest of God.

I pray this helps

Christ said:

Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [a]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Many believe and teach Christ's rest some how relieves our moral obligation to obey the Sabbath commandment, but is this what Jesus is teaching?

Jesus said this and still kept the Sabbath going to church reading God's word Luke 4:16 as the apostles did following in His footsteps keeping every Sabbath in the same manner decades after the Cross Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 as the Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev 23:3 and we see that continuing on in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:22-23

So what rest is Christ referring to?

Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.

The rest Jesus is giving us when we come to Him is rest from our sins. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

Sin is:
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11-12 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. quoting and contrasting directly from the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.


We also see this play out in the last days

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Compared to the antidote found in the next verse

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

If we understand Christ rest, it will help us understand Hebrews 4 much better as it is speaking of two rests, not one.

We are invited to enter into Christ rest, just like the Israelites, Heb 4:1 but many didn't enter due to disobedience (sin) even through the same gospel was preached Heb 4:6

Why the Holy Spirit is calling us "TODAY" to come our of our rebellion (sin) and enter His rest quoting directly from Psa 95

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”

Why there is another day spoken of, which is TODAY God is calling us from our sins and come unto Him and He will give us rest from the burdens of sin but we need to enter through faith Heb 4:2

What did the Israelites disobey during their trial of the wilderness that led them to not enter into Christ rest

Eze 22:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Why the next verse says there remains a Sabbath-rest for the people of God Heb 4:9 and the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 because breaking God's law is sin 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12

The next verse clearly shows these two rests

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also (in addition) ceased from his works as God did from His.

God ceased from His works on the seventh day, Heb 4:4 Gen 2:1-3 just like God commanded us to Exo 20:8-11 as we were made in His image and likeness so to enter His rest one also ceases from work on the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:10

Heb 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience

We don't want to follow the same mistakes of the Israelites who sinned and never entered their rest in Canaan, which is a type of heaven. The same applies to us to enter in Heaven Rev 22:14

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

In Christ rest no one is in rebellion or breaking God's law, why there is just peace
Isa 48:18
Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Jesus is coming soon and we need to come out of our rebellion to Him and obey Him and His commandments, His version, God’s own personal Testimony Exo 31:18 written personally by God, His law and will Psa 40:8, It’s why we see the ark of the covenant, which holds God’s personal Testimony, the Ten Commandments written and spoken by the God of the Universe revealed at the last Trumpet before Jesus comes in all His Glory Rev 11:19 as it is the standard of what God will judge all man 2 Cor 5:10 James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 22:14-15 and removing anything God covers under His mercy seat which below sits God’s Testimony His Ten Commandments, laying it aside as to say its not for me, I do not believe that's going to work out so well as Jesus taught plainly Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

So lets be willing to forsake our sins Pro 28:13 and come to Jesus, He will give us rest.

 

[Studyman]

Show me a single verse in scripture where the Mosaic law was given to the gentiles.

I just showed you two verses, both Laws given by God concerning Jews and Non-Jews. Here, I'll give you the Word's of Isaiah.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Non-Jew/Gentile) "that join themselves to the LORD", to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, "every one" that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and "taketh hold of my covenant";

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

If a man can't believe Moses and Isaiah, I don't know what to say, but Jesus does, Luke 16: 31

The Mosaic law was given to ALL of Israel and they are as grains of sand. So how many laws do you think are included in the Mosaic law?

I seem important to understand who Israel is, given Paul said, "Not all Israel, is of Israel", and that a "Jew" was one Inwardly, not outwardly. And that the Jesus "of the bible" said true Children of Abraham are folks who "do the works of Abraham".

And given the earth from Abraham's time to now has had thousands of generations of men who have lived and died, even if the Path is narrow, and there are few that enter, that would still be a lot of people.

And it is written that God doesn't change, so the Laws of God for Caleb would be the same Laws for Rehab and Shadrack, which would be the same Laws for Zacharias, Simeon and Anna. Except concerning the Priesthood, which was prophesied to change. So I'm not sure how the number of people who live and die, would change God's Laws for the people who would "join themselves" to Him.

What I do know, as a student of the bible, is that God never placed on the necks of even one of these men who trusted Him, 613 Laws.

 

[Hentenza]

Christ himself is our sabbath - therefore we fulfil the 4th commandment in our Sunday celebration of new creation.

Totally agree.

 

[Colo Millz]

Well at least we can agree we are not Seventh Day etc

 

[Hentenza]

I just showed you two verses, both Laws given by God concerning Jews and Non-Jews. Here, I'll give you the Word's of Isaiah.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Non-Jew/Gentile) "that join themselves to the LORD", to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, "every one" that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and "taketh hold of my covenant";

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

If a man can't believe Moses and Isaiah, I don't know what to say, but Jesus does, Luke 16: 31



I seem important to understand who Israel is, given Paul said, "Not all Israel, is of Israel", and that a "Jew" was one Inwardly, not outwardly. And that the Jesus "of the bible" said true Children of Abraham are folks who "do the works of Abraham".

And given the earth from Abraham's time to now has had thousands of generations of men who have lived and died, even if the Path is narrow, and there are few that enter, that would still be a lot of people.

And it is written that God doesn't change, so the Laws of God for Caleb would be the same Laws for Rehab and Shadrack, which would be the same Laws for Zacharias, Simeon and Anna. Except concerning the Priesthood, which was prophesied to change. So I'm not sure how the number of people who live and die, would change God's Laws for the people who would "join themselves" to Him.

What I do know, as a student of the bible, is that God never placed on the necks of even one of these men who trusted Him, 613 Laws.

So how many laws are in the Law of Moses? I’m still waiting on a number.

 

[Hentenza]

I pray this helps

Christ said:

Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [a]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Many believe and teach Christ's rest some how relieves our moral obligation to obey the Sabbath commandment, but is this what Jesus is teaching?

Jesus said this and still kept the Sabbath going to church reading God's word Luke 4:16 as the apostles did following in His footsteps keeping every Sabbath in the same manner decades after the Cross Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 as the Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev 23:3 and we see that continuing on in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:22-23

So what rest is Christ referring to?

Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.

The rest Jesus is giving us when we come to Him is rest from our sins. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

Sin is:
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11-12 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. quoting and contrasting directly from the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.


We also see this play out in the last days

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Compared to the antidote found in the next verse

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

If we understand Christ rest, it will help us understand Hebrews 4 much better as it is speaking of two rests, not one.

We are invited to enter into Christ rest, just like the Israelites, Heb 4:1 but many didn't enter due to disobedience (sin) even through the same gospel was preached Heb 4:6

Why the Holy Spirit is calling us "TODAY" to come our of our rebellion (sin) and enter His rest quoting directly from Psa 95

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”

Why there is another day spoken of, which is TODAY God is calling us from our sins and come unto Him and He will give us rest from the burdens of sin but we need to enter through faith Heb 4:2

What did the Israelites disobey during their trial of the wilderness that led them to not enter into Christ rest

Eze 22:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Why the next verse says there remains a Sabbath-rest for the people of God Heb 4:9 and the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 because breaking God's law is sin 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12

The next verse clearly shows these two rests

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also (in addition) ceased from his works as God did from His.

God ceased from His works on the seventh day, Heb 4:4 Gen 2:1-3 just like God commanded us to Exo 20:8-11 as we were made in His image and likeness so to enter His rest one also ceases from work on the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:10

Heb 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience

We don't want to follow the same mistakes of the Israelites who sinned and never entered their rest in Canaan, which is a type of heaven. The same applies to us to enter in Heaven Rev 22:14

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

In Christ rest no one is in rebellion or breaking God's law, why there is just peace
Isa 48:18
Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Jesus is coming soon and we need to come out of our rebellion to Him and obey Him and His commandments, His version, God’s own personal Testimony Exo 31:18 written personally by God, His law and will Psa 40:8, It’s why we see the ark of the covenant, which holds God’s personal Testimony, the Ten Commandments written and spoken by the God of the Universe revealed at the last Trumpet before Jesus comes in all His Glory Rev 11:19 as it is the standard of what God will judge all man 2 Cor 5:10 James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 22:14-15 and removing anything God covers under His mercy seat which below sits God’s Testimony His Ten Commandments, laying it aside as to say its not for me, I do not believe that's going to work out so well as Jesus taught plainly Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

So lets be willing to forsake our sins Pro 28:13 and come to Jesus, He will give us rest.

Still waiting on that post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well at least we can agree we are not Seventh Day etc

Even your church agrees we are the only consistent protestant

The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.
—The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. "The Day of the Lord" (dies Dominica) was chosen, not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power. The day of resurrection, the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, came on the first day of the week. So this would be the new Sabbath. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.
—Sentinel, Pastor's page, Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995

We were told in the Bible most would follow the one who changed God's times and laws.

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed.

They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair.
—The Faith of Millions

No wonder God is calling us back to true worship Rev 14:7 Rev 18:4 before its too late Rev 22:11

 

[Dan Perez]

Christ himself is our sabbath - therefore we fulfil the 4th commandment in our Sunday celebration of new creation.

But Rom 6:14 says

For b. sin will. not rule. over you for you are NOT //. OU. is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , meaning. the Law of Moses

will never rule over you. NEVERRRRR. , for you are. UNDER GRACE !!

dan p

 

[Colo Millz]

...

No wonder God is calling us back to true worship Rev 14:7 Rev 18:4 before its too late Rev 22:11

What about

Acts 20:7 - “On the first day of the week we gathered to break bread.”

Revelation 1:10 - “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day.” The term “Lord’s Day” refers to the day belonging to the Lord, that is, Sunday - the day of Christ’s resurrection.

The Didache (late 1st century):
“On the Lord’s own day, gather and break bread.”

Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107 AD):
“Those who have come to the possession of a new hope no longer observe the Sabbath, but live in observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again through Him.” (Letter to the Magnesians 9:1)

Justin Martyr (c. 150 AD):
“On the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place… because it is the first day on which God made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.” (First Apology 67)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Still waiting on that post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the Sabbath.

The God in the NT does not delete God in the OT. Not according to Jesus. Mat4:4

Heb8:10 clearly tells that God's covenant people, keep God's laws in the hearts and minds, why we see the apostles and faithful followers keeping every Sabbath, decades after the Cross, just as Jesus commanded them to observe everything He commanded Mat 28:18 because they knew Jesus was God and God;s commandments weren't deleted in the NT as we are clearly told 1John5:3 Rev14:12 Rev 22:14-15

 

[Hentenza]

The God in the NT does not delete God in the OT. Not according to Jesus. Mat4:4

Strawman.

Heb8:10 clearly tells that God's covenant people,

The house of Israel. We keep going over this over and over. And even the verses tell you who the covenant is with. Why do you ignore scripture?

keep God's laws in the hearts and minds, why we see the apostles and faithful followers keeping every Sabbath, decades after the Cross, just as Jesus commanded them to observe everything He commanded Mat 28:18 because they knew Jesus was God and God;s commandments weren't deleted in the NT as we are clearly told 1John5:3 Rev14:12 Rev 22:14-15

The commandments are the two from Jesus not from the law. Still waiting on that post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the Sabbath.