The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

[Studyman]

That’s not what I asked. The laws of Moses, as they are usually called, were given ONLY to Israel.

That isn't what God Teaches through the Torah, nor is it any Teaching that Jesus brought.

Ex. 12: 48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

It was God's LAW, anyone who wanted to "Join themselves to the Lord", Jew or Non-Jew were allowed, "By God's Law".

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

It wasn't God's Law that relegated a faithful Gentile, "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world", it was the Ordinances and commandments of men the "Jews religion" taught for doctrines. They ruled in the City of David and over Solomon's Temple.

It's an important distinction. The "Jews" except the faithful, like Caleb and Zacharias, etc., created their own Laws, as Jesus said, they "taught for doctrines the Commandments of Men".

So in your opinion how many laws are included in the Law of Moses?

For who? A Leper? A common man? A Priest? a woman, an virgin? And I would never want anyone to follow another voice in the world God placed us in, that's what got Eve in trouble.

First, before I answer your questions, show me an example of even ONE person in the Holy scriptures where God required of them to keep 613 Laws. You do have a bible, Yes? Then, when you realize, as I did, that there is no requirement from God anywhere in the Holy Scriptures, to obey 613 Laws, perhaps we can continue.

After that, I am happy to fellowship with you about the Holy Scriptures that Paul and Jesus taught were trustworthy " for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished "unto all good works".

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Nothing I said was "personal philosophy." My arguments are from Scriptural interpretation, which is what we all do here. Your claim that your belief is "Scripture" whereas any opposing view is "not Scripture, but personal interpretation" is a tactic--not a reality.

Yes, we do not keep the 10 Commandments as a subset of the entire Law,

Can you tell me where the law for animal sacrifices started at Creation?

Can you tell me where Moses was at Creation when God in the Ten Commandments , in His own Testimony, written and spoken by God, said the Sabbath started Exo 20:11. Who do you think would know more, us or our the Creator?

The law of Moses is not the Ten Commandments- it contained the Ten as God's commandments are for all His people Rev 14:12 but God's eternal commandments started way before Moses. They are a standalone unit that consisted of Ten Commandments, no more were added, its the Testimony of God, not Moses Deut 4:13 Exo 34:18 Deut 5:22 Exo 31:18. If God added no more to His Ten- who are we to. Deut 4:2

The following passage indicates that the Sabbath was given on behalf of sinful Israel, who being "mortal human" were sinners whose works were unclean and prohibited from the Tree of Life.

No Scripture says this, according to God which is where I place my faith the Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 when there was just God and man and He made everything according to His perfect plan. Jesus made the Sabbath for man, you said indicated it was made against man contrary to what Jesus said.

Jesus never made the Sabbath for man to profane, something He warned about over and over again in the Scripture, He made it for man to keep holy Exo 20:8-11 to spend holy time with God on the holy day of the Lord thy God Isa 58:13 the Sabbath was not made as a punishment Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man- I am not sure why you think God is against man, its not the God I serve. God said He made it to bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify us Eze 20:12 because we can't do this ourselves Isa 66:17, we need God

Mark 2.27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Jesus observed the Sabbath as an example for us, but not because he was subject to "the Law of Sin and Death." He also was Baptized not out of need to be cleansed from Sin, but as an example for us, who are Sinners.

So is this your way of saying we do not need to be baptized despite what Jesus said? Mat 28:19

But your personal interpretation rejects, ignores, or twists the following Scripture...

Col 2.16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Not at all I have addressed this passage too many times to count. Even AI understood it in context. It’s sad many believe and teach God our Creator and Sanctifier is a shadow.

Great question — Colossians 2:16 is often cited in discussions about whether Christians are still required to keep the Sabbath commandment (the Fourth Commandment). Let's look at the verse carefully, in its full context, and then assess whether it refers to the weekly Sabbath from the Ten Commandments or ceremonial sabbaths in the Law of Moses.

---

Colossians 2:16–17 (NKJV)​

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

---

Key Questions:​

1. What kind of “sabbaths” is Paul talking about?​

Let’s break the phrase down:

“festival, new moon, or sabbaths”

This phrase appears in many places in the Old Testament, often in this same order, and always refers to ceremonial observances:

• 1 Chronicles 23:31
• 2 Chronicles 2:4
• 2 Chronicles 31:3
• Nehemiah 10:33
• Ezekiel 45:17
• Hosea 2:11

These texts link festivals, new moons, and sabbaths as ceremonial observances — part of the Mosaic (Levitical) system, not the weekly seventh-day Sabbath of the Ten Commandments.


That’s why Paul says in Col. 2:17:

"which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."

In other words, these ceremonial laws pointed forward to Christ and found their fulfillment in Him.

---

2. Is the weekly Sabbath also a shadow?​

There’s a strong distinction between:

Type of Law	Description	Shadow of Christ?	Abolished in Christ?
Moral Law (10 Commandments)	Eternal moral principles (Ex. 20)	❌ No	❌ No
Ceremonial Law	Feasts, sacrifices, rituals, sabbaths tied to festivals (Lev. 23)	✅ Yes	✅ Yes

• The weekly Sabbathwas:
  • Given at Creation (Genesis 2:2–3)
  • Reinforced in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8–11)
  • Not instituted as a shadow, but as a memorial of creation
• The ceremonial sabbaths(e.g., Day of Atonement, Feast of Trumpets) are:
  • Called sabbaths too (see Leviticus 23)
  • Fall on various days, not necessarily the seventh day
  • Shadows pointing to Jesus' work

Therefore, when Paul talks about “sabbaths which are a shadow”, he refers to these ceremonial sabbaths, not the weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment.

---

3. Did Jesus or the Apostles abolish the weekly Sabbath?​

• Jesus kept the Sabbath (Luke 4:16)
• The disciples kept the Sabbath after Jesus' death (Acts 13:42, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4)
• Hebrews 4:9 says:
  

  "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest [Greek: sabbatismos] for the people of God."

---

✅ Conclusion:​

Colossians 2:16 does not cancel the weekly Sabbath commandment.
It refers to ceremonial sabbaths, along with food and drink offerings, and religious festivals that were shadows pointing to Christ.


The Fourth Commandment Sabbath is not a shadow, but a memorial of creation and a sign of God’s sanctifying work (Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12).

2. But Which Commandment Does God Emphasize Most in the Bible?​

✅ The Fourth Commandment (Sabbath) is the only one God:​

• Calls "My holy day" (Isaiah 58:13)
• Links to Creation (Genesis 2:1–3; Exodus 20:11)
• Uses to test Israel's obedience before Sinai (Exodus 16)
• Commands to remember as a sign between Him and His people (Ezekiel 20:12, 20)
• Institutes as a covenantal sign (Exodus 31:13–17)

The Fourth Commandment is the most directly spoken about by God throughout the Bible. It is personally claimed by Him, reaffirmed repeatedly, and tied to His identity as both Creator and Sanctifier.

Some get confused over apparent references to Sabbath observance in the eschaton. For example...

Isa 66.23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.

But it is very common in OT Prophecy for the Prophet to use OT terminology to describe NT realities. Certainly, he would not use language that seemed to be outside of the OT Covenant of Law while they system was still in play.

And so, the above passage would indicate the equivalent of OT realities--Every month and every week mankind will be subservient to God. It does not suggest Sabbath Law needs to be observed under the New Covenant.

Your words, not God’s

On the contrary, Jer 31.32 suggests that the New Covenant will be different from the Sinai Covenant of Law. It will involve a change in law by which sin would never again bring Israel to non-compliance. And that Covenant would have to exceed the Mosaic Law, which recorded Israel's incapacity to inherit Eternal Life.

Yes, a covenant is an agreement. The agreement is not the same because the new Covenant is established on better promises

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

God not breaking His promise to not alter the words of His covenant Psa 89:34, why its established on better promises because our perfect Creator would be impossible to make an imperfect law as many suggest Psa 19:7, its just imperfect man rebelling which sadly has been from the beginning .

Why its still a sin to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30

Guess all will get sorted out when Jesus return. Why His covenant that holds the Ten Commandments is revealed at the last trumpet before He returns Rev 11:18-19 Rev 15:5 God's own Testimony Exo 31:18 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.by the time He comes all of our decisions will be sealed Rev 22:11

Take care

 

[Hentenza]

That isn't what God Teaches through the Torah, nor is it any Teaching that Jesus brought.

Ex. 12: 48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

It was God's LAW, anyone who wanted to "Join themselves to the Lord", Jew or Non-Jew were allowed, "By God's Law".

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

It wasn't God's Law that relegated a faithful Gentile, "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world", it was the Ordinances and commandments of men the "Jews religion" taught for doctrines. They ruled in the City of David and over Solomon's Temple.

It's an important distinction. The "Jews" except the faithful, like Caleb and Zacharias, etc., created their own Laws, as Jesus said, they "taught for doctrines the Commandments of Men".

Show me a single verse in scripture where the Mosaic law was given to the gentiles.

For who? A Leper? A common man? A Priest? a woman, an virgin? And I would never want anyone to follow another voice in the world God placed us in, that's what got Eve in trouble.

First, before I answer your questions, show me an example of even ONE person in the Holy scriptures where God required of them to keep 613 Laws. You do have a bible, Yes? Then, when you realize, as I did, that there is no requirement from God anywhere in the Holy Scriptures, to obey 613 Laws, perhaps we can continue.

After that, I am happy to fellowship with you about the Holy Scriptures that Paul and Jesus taught were trustworthy " for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished "unto all good works".

The Mosaic law was given to ALL of Israel and they are as grains of sand. So how many laws do you think are included in the Mosaic law?

 

[BobRyan]

until you read the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 "I will make a NEW Covenant.. this IS the Covenant.. I will write MY LAW on their heart and mind..."

Turns out... God's Law is there.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 1:19
"this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3-4
"saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
where "Honor your father and mother .. is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2
John 14:15 "if you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

Matt 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 ..; if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.

Notice that Jesus quotes exclusively from the Law of Moses, primarily from THE THEN and the man questioning Him knows full well what commandments Jesus is referring to

The commandments of Jesus in the new covenant

Indeed the Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant (also reference in Heb 8) references the Commandments of God known in Matt 19, known in Ex 20, Known in Jer 31

Jer 31 and Heb 8 both say the New Covenant "Writes God's Law on the heart" and Heb 8 says that is what Jesus' Law is

are 2 commandments that summarize and take over the whole law.

There is no "summarize AND TAKE OVER" in all of scripture.
I prefer the actual Bible. In Matt 22 Jesus said all of scripture and all of the Law of God rests on the solid foundation of these two commandments in the LAW of MOSES

1. Love God with all your heart Deut 6:5
2. Love your neighbor as yourself Lev 19:18

Lev 19 and Deut 6 were not "Deleting all the Law and all scripture"

The 613 Jewish laws including the 10 commandments was fulfilled by Christ sacrifice

false.

'Do not make graven images , bown down to them or serve them" in Ex 20 was not "Abolished at the cross"
"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20 was not "Abolished at the cross"

Rom 3:31 'Do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law"

in the cross. The terms of the old contract have been met and exceeded by Christ. The new covenant has new and different terms. The Christian is not under the law.

The audience here is the Jewish people not the Christians.

The audience here is the Jewish people not the Christians.

Like I stated the Jeremiah’s audience was the Jewish people not the Christians.

Jer 31:3134 is written to ALL the NT church, Eph 2 pojnts out that both Jewish Christians and Gentiles Christians are one single group. Just as does Rom 11 say the same thing.

The point remain

slicing up the New Testament to avoid scripture that does not fit your preference is not good exegeses

Jesus was crucified and buried before the sabbath began.

And resurrected after it ended

Food for thought. The Lords day was established by Jesus resurrection on the first day.

Not one single text says that the first day of the week "is the Lord's day" -- as we all know.

But did you also know that every single appearance post crucifixion was also on the first day?

Acts 1 says that Jesus appeared to them for 40 days after His resurrection... a lot of not-Sundays in that list

Also I want to challenge you to find a single verse in the NT post crucifixion that commands the Christian to keep the Jewish sabbath.

Acts 18:4 Paul was in worship services preaching the Gospel "Every Sabbath"
Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

Even though "do not take God's name in vain" is never quoted in the NT --- it is still Gods Command and would still be sin to do it.

As we all know

 

[Hentenza]

until you read the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 "I will make a NEW Covenant.. this IS the Covenant.. I will write MY LAW on their heart and mind..."

Both Jeremiah and the writer of Hebrews are clear that this new covenant is for the House of Israel not for the gentiles and the Christian church. This new covenant with the house of Israel remains in effect until the end of the time of the gentiles.

Turns out... God's Law is there.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 1:19

The 2 commandments of Christ.

"this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3-4

The 2 commandments of Christ.

"saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

The 2 commandments of Christ.

where "Honor your father and mother .. is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2

Yes. There is nothing wrong with the commandment. The difference is all of the law including the Ten Commandments are fulfilled in one of Jesus commandments.

“For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

bible.com

John 14:15 "if you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

The 2 commandments of Jesus.

Matt 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 ..; if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.

Notice that Jesus quotes exclusively from the Law of Moses, primarily from THE THEN and the man questioning Him knows full well what commandments Jesus is referring to

Jesus came to preach to the Jew first and this is what He is doing here. This chapter of Matthew is pre crucifixion so Jesus had not yet fulfilled the law.

Indeed the Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant (also reference in Heb 8) references the Commandments of God known in Matt 19, known in Ex 20, Known in Jer 31

Jer 31 and Heb 8 both say the New Covenant "Writes God's Law on the heart" and Heb 8 says that is what Jesus' Law is

There is no "summarize AND TAKE OVER" in all of scripture.
I prefer the actual Bible. In Matt 22 Jesus said all of scripture and all of the Law of God rests on the solid foundation of these two commandments in the LAW of MOSES

1. Love God with all your heart Deut 6:5
2. Love your neighbor as yourself Lev 19:18

Lev 19 and Deut 6 were not "Deleting all the Law and all scripture"

The law has not been deleted but fulfilled. Jesus met and exceeded the terms of the old covenant and fulfilled (completed) the law. Jesus was the only man that was able to keep the law perfectly.

false.

Very true and the result of Christ sacrifice. Christ redeemed the believer from the curse of the law (Gal. 3:13). why would we need redeeming from the law? Because the law is not of faith (Gal. 3:12).

'Do not make graven images , bown down to them or serve them" in Ex 20 was not "Abolished at the cross"
"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20 was not "Abolished at the cross"

Rom 3:31 'Do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law"

“Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭27‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 3:27-31 Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the G | New American Standard Bible - NA

Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the G

bible.com

The verse you cited does not say what you think it says. Is God the God of Jews only? He is not the God of the gentiles also? Both the Jew and the gentile will be justified through faith. So the law remains for those that are yet to come to Christ. The whole of the OT is Cristological meaning that is about the coming of the savior. It shows us the need for the savior.

Jer 31:3134 is written to ALL the NT church, Eph 2 pojnts out that both Jewish Christians and Gentiles Christians are one single group. Just as does Rom 11 say the same thing.

““Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31‬:‭31‬-‭34‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Jeremiah 31:31-34 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took | New American Standard Bible -

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took

bible.com

The covenant is with the house of Israel not with the gentiles or the church. The verses are clear.

The point remain

slicing up the New Testament to avoid scripture that does not fit your preference is not good exegeses

And resurrected after it ended

Not one single text says that the first day of the week "is the Lord's day" -- as we all know.

Acts 1 says that Jesus appeared to them for 40 days after His resurrection... a lot of not-Sundays in that list

Acts 18:4 Paul was in worship services preaching the Gospel "Every Sabbath"
Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

Even though "do not take God's name in vain" is never quoted in the NT --- it is still Gods Command and would still be sin to do it.

As we all know

And reading scripture through the lense of the continuation of the law is unorthodox and unsupported by scripture. ALL of the apostles kept the Sabbath in order to evangelize the Jews. Paul even said that:

“To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭9‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under | New American Standard Bible

To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under

bible.com

Why would Paul want to gain those under the law? If being under the law is still required then Paul here is bipolar.

Brother, the Christian is NOT under the law. Jesus redeemed us from the law. The law only remains to the Jews that deny Christ as their savior.

 

[Mercy Shown]

and here is Rom 3:20. says. !!

# 1 THEREFORE //. DI0TI. , is. a Conjuncation.

# 2 BY //. EK. , is. a PREPOSTION

#. 3 THE DEEDS // ERGON

# 4. OF THE LAW //. NOMOS , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR. in. the NEUTER

# 5. THERE SHALL //. DIKAIOO. , in. the FUTURE TENSE , in. the PASSIVE VOICE , in. the INDICATIVE MOOD in. the SINGULAR

# 6 NO //. OU. , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE

# 7 FLESH. //. SARX. in. the NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the. SIGNULAR

#. 8 BE JUSTIFIED. //. DIKAOO. in. the FUTURE TEHSE. , in the. INDICATIVE MOOD. and this mood means you better believe it

in the SINGULAR

# 9. IN HIS ?? AUTOS. , is. a PERSONAL POSSESSEIVE PRONOUN , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the SIGNULAR

# 10 SIGHT //. ENOPION. is an. ADVERB

# 11. FOR // GAR , is. a CONJUNCATION

# 12 BY // DIA , is a CONJUNCATION

# 13 THE. LAW // NOMOS . in. the. GENITIVE CASE , in. the SIGNULAR

# 14. IS THE KNOWLEDGE // EPIGNOSIS. , in. the NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the SIGNULAR

# 15. OF SIN // HARARTIS. . in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

So what say you. ??

dan p

Ok. Let me set this up in a table format.

#	English	Greek	Grammar Notes	Meaning/Comment
1	Therefore	διότι (dioti)	Conjunction	“Therefore,” connecting logical ideas.
2	By	ἐκ (ek)	Preposition	“Out of” or “by means of.”
3	The deeds	ἔργων (ergon)	Genitive plural of ergon	“Works” or “deeds.” The genitive ties it to “law.”
4	Of the law	νόμου (nomou)	Genitive singular, neuter	“Of law.” Combined: “works of the law.”
5	There shall…be justified	δικαιωθήσεται (dikaiōthēsetai)	Future tense, passive voice, indicative mood	“Will be justified.” Future and passive = “will be declared righteous (by another).”
6	No	οὐ (ou)	Negative particle	Makes the verb negative — “no one will be justified.”
7	Flesh	σὰρξ (sarx)	Nominative singular	“Flesh,” i.e. human being.
8	Be justified	(repeated)	As above	He repeats the point about tense and mood — the indicative means this is a factual statement, not hypothetical.
9	In His	αὐτοῦ (autou)	Genitive singular pronoun	“In His (sight)” — referring to God.
10	Sight	ἐνώπιον (enōpion)	Adverb/preposition	“Before” or “in the presence of.”
11	For	γάρ (gar)	Conjunction	Explains the reason.
12	By	διὰ (dia)	Preposition	“Through” — means or instrument.
13	The law	νόμου (nomou)	Genitive singular	“Through the law.”
14	Is the knowledge	ἐπίγνωσις (epignōsis)	Nominative singular	“Full knowledge” or “recognition.”
15	Of sin	ἁμαρτίας (hamartias)	Genitive singular	“Of sin.”

---

Yes, it is true. Our righteousness must come from Christ alone and then we will be justified to the law.

 

[RandyPNW]

Can you tell me where the law for animal sacrifices started at Creation?

Animal Sacrifices were practiced as far back as Abel, right after the Fall. Perhaps you can count the animal skins God gave Adam and Eve, and believe that Abel took that as a cue?

I don't know as if God required it, but He was pleased with it. God was also pleased with Israel's obedience in the matter of sacrificing animals under the Law of Moses.

All of these animal sacrifices took place in the OT era, when humanity had not yet received the means of overcoming their Sin Record. And so, God used animal sacrifice in the Law of Moses to show Israel that they could not by that system or by any other Man-oriented system, obtain Justification for Eternal Life. The only work that could obtain final Justification for Man, or for Eternal Life, was Christ.

As such, animal sacrifice was used by God in the OT era, and accepted from Abel in the pre-Christian era, because it represented the deficiency of human works with the record of Sin. Sinful Mankind had been expelled from Paradise and the Tree of Life. And all hope would be therefore placed not even in the work of sacrificing animals, but more in what doing that in faith represented--the sacrifice of Christ and his work.

I'm not going to indulge your long pre-prepared copy and paste statements that is no better than filibustering and an attempt to wear out anybody who wishes to disagree with you. What I've said here is sufficient to deal with your initial point. I've said this before, and so you obviously wish to just spread your false Gospel and ignore any complaints against it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Animal Sacrifices were practice as far back as Abel, right after the Fall. I don't know as if God required it, but He was pleased with it. God was also pleased with Israel's obedience in the matter of sacrificing animals under the Law of Moses.

All of these animal sacrifices took place in the OT era, when humanity had not yet received the means of overcoming their Sin Record. And so, God used animal sacrifice in the Law of Moses to show Israel that they could not by that system or by any other Man-oriented system, obtain Justification for Eternal Life. The only work that could obtain final Justification for Man, or for Eternal Life, was Christ.

As such, animal sacrifice was used by God in the OT era, and accepted from Abel in the pre-Christian era, because it represented the deficiency of human works with the record of Sin. Sinful Mankind had been expelled from Paradise and the Tree of Life. And all hope would be therefore placed not even in the work of sacrificing animals, but more in what doing that in faith represented--the sacrifice of Christ and his works.

I'm not going to indulge your long pre-prepared copy and paste statements that is no better than filibustering and an attempt to wear out anybody who wishes to disagree with you. What I've said here is sufficient to deal with your initial point. I've said this before, and so you obviously wish to just spread your false Gospel and ignore any complaints against it.

Yes after the fall. The Sabbath, the Holy day of the Lord started at Creation according to God’s written and spoken Testimony Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 Exo 31:18 it was and is and always will be God’s perfect plan for mankind, why it continues in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:22-23. Why not all laws are the same. God’s commandments describes what sin is when breaking Rom 3:20 1 John 3:4 James 2:11 Rom 7:7 Mat5:19-30, the law of Moses was added as a prescription to sin. Lev 4:35 until the Seed. Now we go to Jesus because the blood of animals could never take away our sins Heb 10:1-10, but its still sin to break God’s laws in the NC 1John3:4 James 2:10-11 and continuing in them without a change of heart and change of direction (forsaking them pro 28:13) there remains no more sacrifice Heb 10:26-30 He won’t make us obey on our own if we love Him and ask for His help John 14:1–18 but if we harden our heart Heb 3:7-19 and not become subject to the law of God Rom 8:7-8 He has no where to go and won’t force Himself on us.

 

[Mercy Shown]

You keep horribly miss-representing my posts. I never suggested or even implied that Jesus was supposed to sacrifice animals for His Sin. I will try one more time to explain myself.

The point I made, was that Jesus forgave sins as the Prophesied "Priest of God", but never by performing the "works of the Law" required by the temporary Levitical Priesthood, that was "ADDED" after the golden Calf.

Lev. 4: 30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. 31And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.


Priesthood works, BTW, that were still being promoted by the mainstream religions of Paul's Time, the Pharisees, who didn't believe Moses concerning Him, to the Galatians and continued to exalt themselves as God's Priests, requiring that men, the Galatians in this case, come to them with their sacrifices to perform these Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sin.

The point is, God's Laws that define Righteousness, Holiness and Sin, are eternal. While the LAW "ADDED" after the Golden Calf, for remission of sins, that Paul is speaking to in Galatians was temporary, "ADDED" Till the Seed should come. Added to Lead them to the True Lamb of God for remission of sins that are past.

At least this is what the Holy Scriptures teach.

You say:​

“Jesus forgave sins as the prophesied Priest of God, but never by performing the ‘works of the Law’ required by the temporary Levitical Priesthood, that was ‘ADDED’ after the golden calf.”

Response:

You’re correct that Jesus did not perform Levitical rituals — but not because those laws were “added” later as a temporary system separate from God’s true Law.
Scripture says those sacrifices were part of the Mosaic covenant itself given through Moses at Sinai, not “added after” the golden calf.

Exodus 24:6–8

“And Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar... and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.”

That blood offering for sin happened before the golden calf incident (Exodus 32).
So, animal sacrifice was not a reactionary “add-on” — it was an integral part of the Law from the start.

Jesus didn’t need to perform those “works of the Law” because He was the fulfillment of them.

Hebrews 10:11–12

“Every priest stands daily ministering and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God.”

Christ fulfilled those priestly functions once for all, not by rejecting them but by completing their purpose.

You say:​

“The Pharisees... continued to exalt themselves as God’s priests, requiring that men come to them with their sacrifices to perform these priesthood ‘works of the Law’ for remission of sin.”

Response:

The Pharisees were not Levitical priests.
They were lay teachers and legal interpreters, not the ones offering sacrifices.
The priesthood was centered in the Temple, not in Pharisaic synagogues.

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees not for offering sacrifices but for trusting in their own righteousness through outward law-keeping (Luke 18:9–14).

Paul’s rebuke in Galatians wasn’t against people offering sacrifices to priests — it was against those who were saying circumcision and Mosaic observance were required for salvation (Galatians 2:16; 3:2–3; 5:1–4).

Galatians 2:16

“A man is not justified by works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.”

So, the “works of the Law” in Galatians are not priestly rituals but any human attempt to be justified before God by law-keeping.

You say:​

“God’s Laws that define righteousness, holiness, and sin are eternal, while the Law ‘added’ after the Golden Calf for remission of sins was temporary — added till the Seed should come.”

Response:

Here’s the key misunderstanding:
Paul does say a law was “added,” but not because of the golden calf — rather, it was added because of transgressions(Galatians 3:19).

Galatians 3:19

“Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made…”

The “law added” refers to the entire Mosaic Law (including moral, civil, and ceremonial commands), given 430 years after Abraham (Galatians 3:17).
This timeline makes it clear the reference is to Sinai, not to the golden calf.

That Law was added as a temporary guardian — not to replace God’s eternal moral will, but to point sinners to Christ

Galatians 3:24–25

“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”

The Law (in all its parts) served as a tutor — a shadow pointing to the reality (Hebrews 10:1).
Once the reality came, the shadow’s job was finished.

You say:​

“Added to lead them to the True Lamb of God for remission of sins that are past.”

Response:

On this point you’re absolutely right — the Law did point to the coming Lamb.
But Scripture goes further: once the Lamb came, the entire system that pointed to Him was fulfilled and set aside.

Hebrews 7:18–19

“For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did.”

The Law could reveal sin and foreshadow redemption — but it could not accomplish it.
Christ’s finished work replaced those shadows forever.

---

 

[RandyPNW]

Yes after the fall. The Sabbath, the Holy day of the Lord started at Creation according to God’s written and spoken Testimony Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 Exo 31:18

No, that is not at all accurate. Yes, God's Sabbath after Creation began at Creation. But that's not when the Sabbath Law for Man or for Israel began. What Sabbath Law did God require of Mankind after He created Man? Did He require it before the Fall? No. Did He require it right after the Fall? No.

And so, your argument is illogical. God's Sabbath after Creation is not the same as Sabbath Law for Israel. One was God's rest after creation, and the other was man's rest after a week of working. One suggested that God finished His product. The other suggested that Man had to cease and desist from his flawed works.

I will admit, of course, that God designed the description of Creation and its Sabbath in a way that Man was intended to pattern himself after. Before the Fall it would've meant that Man completes his job given him by God, just as God completed His job in Creation and rested. But after the Fall it meant that Man, or Israel, had to stop working to show that his job falls short and remains incomplete.

There is no indication either before or after the Fall that Man was supposed to rest one day every 7th day. But that became the matter when God introduced the Law of Moses to Israel to show by its repetition that their product never really gets finished under that system.

it was and is and always will be God’s perfect plan for mankind, why it continues in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:22-23. Why not all laws are the same. God’s commandments describes what sin is when breaking Rom 3:20 1 John 3:4 James 2:11 Rom 7:7 Mat5:19-30, the law of Moses was added as a prescription to sin.

The Law of Moses was added only to Israel as an example to the nations of what their commitment to God meant, both in terms of righteousness and in terms of the inadequacy of their works. The Sabbath also showed this human inadequacy by exposing Israel's record of sin, needing to rest from their flawed works.

Now, lest you claim I say there are no commandments anymore to make us righteous I will remind you of what I've already said. Christ represents lawfulness and the fulfillment of the law of Moses. As such, Jesus provided a righteousness apart from the Law, fulfilling the Law, because it provided Israel with what their own works could not provide for themselves.

We remain lawful, but our Justification does not come from our own works alone, but more, from the devotion of our works to our partnership with Christ. We see in Christ the morality of the Law and retain anything moral in the Law that speaks not of Israel's religious works, but of the work of Christ in giving his righteousness to us.

That means no more need for Sabbath Law. No more repeated rests for Israel inasmuch as Christ has provided the final product. Now we can truly rest.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, that is not at all accurate. Yes, God's Sabbath after Creation began at Creation. But that's not when the Sabbath Law for Man or for Israel began. What Sabbath Law did God require of Mankind after He created Man? Did He require it before the Fall? No. Did He require it right after the Fall? No.And so, your argument is illogical. God's Sabbath after Creation is not the same as Sabbath Law for Israel. One was God's rest after creation, and the other was man's rest after a week of working. One suggested that God finished His product. The other suggested that Man had to cease and desist from his flawed works.

God said in the Ten Commandments which is God’s Laws. Exo 20:11 when His Sabbath started. Why Remember is used because you don’t remember or bring to mind, something that never happened before and God said verbatim in His commandments, when His Sabbath started at Creation before sin. It’s not a different Sabbath according to God Exo 20:8-11 Gen 2:1-3. Jesus who is God speaks of this same reference when He said the Sabbath was made for man. Man was made at Creation on the sixth day Gen 1:26 before the first Sabbath Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 so way before there was a Jew. The Greek word Jesus used means mankind the Hebrew word means Adam. My apologies if I believe God’s personally written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18 over opinions of man. We are told not to do this exact thing Isa8:20. Why God said the Sabbath is His commandment way before it was codified at Mt Sinai. When the God of the Universe reveals His Laws Exo 20:6 Exo 20:1-17 Deut 4:13 , not mans laws His laws that He wrote, He spoke, not man, that is under His mercy seat Exo 25:21 and in heaven Rev 11:19 Rev 15:5 why do we not believe Him. How do we have faith in God but not believe what He says. He even spelled it out for us so we will have no excuses. You cannot have the law that describes what sin is be the same law that was given, after breaking that law.

I said this before why I am going to move on, it’s impossible to try to reason when one thinks their opinions are as equal to God’s Word, in this case God’s own written and spoken Testimony. Exo 31:18. I am not aware when the creation knew more than our Creator. God has always been, we have not. Lets let God be God and just be His humble servants wanting to join ourselves to Him Isa 56:6 before He comes back when all of our decisions will be sealed Rev 22:11

Take care.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes. There is nothing wrong with the commandment. The difference is all of the law including the Ten Commandments are fulfilled in one of Jesus commandments.

“For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.””

Turns out we are also supposed to "Love GOD with all our heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22.

It is TWO Commands in the Law of Moses that form the bedrock foundation for ALL Law and ALL scripture Matt 22.

Christ does not say in Matt 22 "By these two commands I have deleted all scripture and all of God's Law"

No wonder Paul says in Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[BobRyan]

No, that is not at all accurate. Yes, God's Sabbath after Creation began at Creation. But that's not when the Sabbath Law for Man or for Israel began.

Not true.

EX 20:11 quotes the Sabbath at Creation Gen 2:2-3 stating that this is the origin.
Mark 2:27 "Sabbath MADE for mankind not mankind made for the Sabbath" j--k speaks of the "making" of both in Gen 1-2
Is 66:23 Sabbath for ALL MANKIND (from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship) for all eternity after the cross in the New Heavens and New Earth

What Sabbath Law did God require of Mankind after He created Man?

Gen 2:2-3
Ex 20:8,11 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. ...11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Does not say "I NOW make it Holy" rather "HE MADE it holy" in Gen 2:2-3
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, (made it Holy) because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Did He require it before the Fall?

yes ... read Gen 2:2-3
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, (made it Holy) because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

No

read the text.

 

[Hentenza]

Turns out we are also supposed to "Love GOD with all our heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22.

And we do but not as part of the Jewish law but as the commandment given by Jesus. There is a difference.

It is TWO Commands in the Law of Moses that form the bedrock foundation for ALL Law and ALL scripture Matt 22.

And the two commandments summarize the whole law so no longer the law but the Spirit. The law is not of faith or of the Spirit. You can’t keep the law and walk by the Spirit at the same time.

Christ does not say in Matt 22 "By these two commands I have deleted all scripture and all of God's Law"

Strawman. No one is arguing that the law was deleted.

No wonder Paul says in Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

The believer does not walk on the flesh but by the Spirit. You are misinterpreting this passage. Let me remind you how Romans 8 begins.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c

bible.com

Do you honestly think that Paul is promoting the law even after calling it weak and ineffective? Unfortunately your interpretation creates quite a bit of tension in scripture even within the same author. The Bible writers don’t condemn something in one place only to promote it in another. I exhort you to reconsider your interpretations in light of tension and adjust accordingly. The Bible is consistent in its teachings.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

read the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 "I will make a NEW Covenant.. this IS the Covenant.. I will write MY LAW on their heart and mind..."

IN Context -- Jermiah's readers knew this to be in ref to the Commandments of God in Ex 20 where Deut 5:22 says He spoke the Ten "and added no more"

Both Jeremiah and the writer of Hebrews are clear that this new covenant is for the House of Israel

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before ME to worship" Is 66:23

not for the gentiles and the Christian church

So then -- you do not claim to be under the New Covenant of scripture?
I am a bit surprised by that

The 2 commandments of Christ.

1. Love God with all your heart and mind in Matt 22 is directly from the LAW of Moses in Deut 6;5
2. Love your neighbor as yourself in Matt 22 is directly from the LAW of Moses in Lev 19:18

And these two are the bedrock foundation of ALL scripture and Law as Christ said RATHER Than "on these two commands I now DELETE all scripture and all law" as some have it.

Yes. There is nothing wrong with the commandment. The difference is all of the law including the Ten Commandments are fulfilled in one of Jesus commandments.

ALL are BASED on those two commands in the Law of Moses --- Jesus does not say all scripture is DELETED by those two commands

Commands that Christ perfectly complied with (which is the meaning of Fulfill in this context)

“For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭14

Fulfill as in "perfectly comply with" in this context.

Which is why in Rom 13 we TOO are commanded to "comply with it" to fulfill it.

Rom 13:9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law

Obviously this "fulfill" is in the sense of "perfectly comply with " rather than "perfectly delete"

Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

That's right -- taking God's name in vain is STILL a sin, believe it or not

‬ The 2 commandments of Jesus.

Jesus came to preach to the Jew first and this is what He is doing here. This chapter of Matthew is pre crucifixion so Jesus had not yet fulfilled the law.

Matt 28 the post-crucifixion command of Christ is "Go and TEACH them to observe all that I commanded YOU" and in fulfillment of that command the Gospel accounts are written to teach us all that Christ commanded His followers.

He did not say "Go and teach them to IGNORE ALL that I taught you"

The law has not been deleted but fulfilled.

Indeed -- perfectly complied with , not perfectly deleted.

Moral law is prescriptive. It tells us what is right. You do not DELETE the command to have no other God's before the one true God, by one act of serving only our one God. Rather you have to ALWAYS do that, same is true of the command to not take God's name in vain.

This is incredibly obvious to all of us

Jesus met and exceeded the terms of the old covenant and fulfilled (completed) the law. Jesus was the only man that was able to keep the law perfectly.

true. But just like the speed limit (another prescriptive law in human terms) , one act of compliance does not delete that Law.

This is incredibly obvious to all of us. I am not saying anything you do not already know is true.

Very true and the result of Christ sacrifice. Christ redeemed the believer from the curse of the law (Gal. 3:13).

True. But the result is not that it is no longer a sin to take God's name in vain.

The Law remains.

Eph 6:1-3 is an appeal to the STILL VALID set of TEN in the OT

"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth."

Paul ADDs to his own command to "obey parents" by appealing to the SET of TEN where the 5th commandment is the FIRST COMMANDMENT in that set of TEN with a promise.

Notice it is not the first command in scripture with a promise. Rather in the TEN. Paul appeals to the TEN just as Jesus did in Matt 19, Just as James does in James 2, just as Paul does in Rom 7 and in Rom 13.

This idea that to comply with moral law is to end it, to delete it , to abolish it is false.

Rom 3:31 "what then? Do we ABOLISH the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW ol God"

We do not DELETE a Law that we comply with and ESTABLISH

This point cannot be any more obvious.

James 2 says to break even one of the TEN is to break them all.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 2:
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 9:
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants

Eph 2:
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

 

[BobRyan]

Do you honestly think that Paul is promoting the law even after calling it weak and ineffective?

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rom 3:31 "we ESTABLISH the LAW ", the same oracles of God given to Israel in Rom 3:1-4. the same Law that Rom 3 says condemns all mankind and tells us what sin is.

Paul says only the lost are in opposition to the Law of God see Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

Notice that in Rom 7 that Law includes "do not covet"

Notice that in Rom 13 it includes the TEN
Just as we saw in James 2

 

[Hentenza]

BobRyan said:

read the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 "I will make a NEW Covenant.. this IS the Covenant.. I will write MY LAW on their heart and mind..."

IN Context -- Jermiah's readers knew this to be in ref to the Commandments of God in Ex 20 where Deut 5:22 says He spoke the Ten "and added no more"

I have already responded to this and even showed you where this is a covenant with the house if Israel, not with the gentiles.

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before ME to worship" Is 66:23

Audience= Israel.

So then -- you do not claim to be under the New Covenant of scripture?
I am a bit surprised by that

1. Love God with all your heart and mind in Matt 22 is directly from the LAW of Moses in Deut 6;5
2. Love your neighbor as yourself in Matt 22 is directly from the LAW of Moses in Lev 19:18

Are you actually reading and replying to my actual post? I have already explained this but you ignored it.

And these two are the bedrock foundation of ALL scripture and Law as Christ said RATHER Than "on these two commands I now DELETE all scripture and all law" as some have it.

The two commandments summarize ALL of the law meaning that the law is no longer binding for the Christian. The law was never given to the gentiles in the first place.

ALL are BASED on those two commands in the Law of Moses --- Jesus does not say all scripture is DELETED by those two commands

You are continuing with the Strawman. I have already answered this so reply to my answer.

Commands that Christ perfectly complied with (which is the meaning of Fulfill in this context

Yep. The only one that could.

Fulfill as in "perfectly comply with" in this context.

Nope. The first covenant went away because Jesus fulfilled it.

“When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭13‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.

bible.com

There you go. It does not get any clearer.

Which is why in Rom 13 we TOO are commanded to "comply with it" to fulfill it.

Rom 13:9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law

Obviously this "fulfill" is in the sense of "perfectly comply with " rather than "perfectly delete"

No. Fulfill= completed.

Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

It was fulfilled in us through Jesus redemptive sacrifice.

Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

That's right -- taking God's name in vain is STILL a sin, believe it or not

Yes. Jesus first commandment.

Matt 28 the post-crucifixion command of Christ is "Go and TEACH them to observe all that I commanded YOU" and in fulfillment of that command the Gospel accounts are written to teach us all that Christ commanded His followers.

Not the law, that’s for sure.

He did not say "Go and teach them to IGNORE ALL that I taught you"

Another Strawman.

Indeed -- perfectly complied with , not perfectly deleted.

Moral law is prescriptive. It tells us what is right. You do not DELETE the command to have no other God's before the one true God, by one act of serving only our one God. Rather you have to ALWAYS do that, same is true of the command to not take God's name in vain.

The Strawman continues.

This is incredibly obvious to all of us

true. But just like the speed limit (another prescriptive law in human terms) , one act of compliance does not delete that Law.

This is incredibly obvious to all of us. I am not saying anything you do not already know is true.

True. But the result is not that it is no longer a sin to take God's name in vain.

The Law remains.

Eph 6:1-3 is an appeal to the STILL VALID set of TEN in the OT

"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth."

Paul ADDs to his own command to "obey parents" by appealing to the SET of TEN where the 5th commandment is the FIRST COMMANDMENT in that set of TEN with a promise.

Notice it is not the first command in scripture with a promise. Rather in the TEN. Paul appeals to the TEN just as Jesus did in Matt 19, Just as James does in James 2, just as Paul does in Rom 7 and in Rom 13.

This idea that to comply with moral law is to end it, to delete it , to abolish it is false.

Rom 3:31 "what then? Do we ABOLISH the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW ol God"

We do not DELETE a Law that we comply with and ESTABLISH

This point cannot be any more obvious.

James 2 says to break even one of the TEN is to break them all.

What part of the law is a curse do you not grasp? Why would Jesus REDEEMED us from the curse of the law only to continue being under the law? Your argument makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What is the curse of the law that Paul is speaking about

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Deut 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”


The curse is not continuing in obedience to God's commandments, which He relates as worshipping others gods. Paul speaks of this as well in Rom6:16

Jesus by His blood took the curse for us- the wages of sin is death, but does that mean we can now worship other gods, vain His holy name, bow to false images, break His holy Sabbath day. If we can continue in sin, Jesus needed not to die. Why Paul tells us to die of sin, not live in it. Those who do remains no more sacrifice Heb 10:26-30

Paul asks why those in Christ would want to continue in sin any longer Rom6:2 look what it did to Jesus at the Cross, why would anyone who loves Jesus want to continue down that path. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 1 John5:3

The blessings and curses are still there, we still can choose who we serve, which is reflected by who we obey Rom6:16

Like Joshua said:

Jos 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of [a]the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

When we are not keeping the first 4 commandments of God's Testimony by default we are worshipping another god, why Jesus said in vain they worship Me, laying aside the commandments of God- quoting from the Ten Mark7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14. The very first commandment is not to have any other gods before Me, the 4th commandment tells us what God that is, the one who has the power to create heaven and earth Exo 20:11 the one that has the power to sanctify us Eze 20:12 and Rev 14:7 tells us to go back and worship this God Rev 14:7 because so many have taken the wine of Babylon following traditions of man over the commandments of God. He is calling us back, before its too late. Rev 18:4 Rev 22:11


Our decisions will determine which path we are on and what we hear at His Second Coming. We still have choices between blessing and curses.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

What law?


15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

The whole Bible is about the testimony of God through His prophets and disciples. But yet when it comes to God's own personally written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18 few believe.

Jesus is God.

John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Why we see the ark of the covenant which holds God's Testimony revealed at the last trumpet before He returns Rev 11:18-19 Rev 15:5

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Rom 2:
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 9:
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants

Eph 2:
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

Its crazy that people would rather be out of a wedding Covenant with Christ than to keep His laws in our hearts and minds.