The Brokenness of Christianity

[Delvianna]

The brokenness of Christianity? Ah! The benefits of being weak! The benefits of being humble!

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.- Isaiah 66:2

Followed by more brokenness in the form of fasting and prayer... Now we have potential!

I'm sorry I'm not understanding your point, would you care to elaborate?

 

[rockytopva]

I'm sorry I'm not understanding your point, would you care to elaborate?

There is more hope for us when we are broken than when we are strong...

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. - 1 Corinthians 1

 

[Delvianna]

There is more hope for us when we are broken than when we are strong...

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. - 1 Corinthians 1

thank you for expanding on your point that's a good verse, but isn't brokenness in response to our personal heart with God and not the theological brokenness of split doctrine and denominations?

For instance, If I went and told someone that obedience is necessary for God in order for you to enter into his kingdom, and someone else comes up and says its not and someone else comes and says it is but you need to add baptism to that and someone else comes up and says you need to also add speaking in tongues and everyone disagrees with each other, how can we be strong with that? The person standing there would look like we've all gone mad and have no idea who is right and how to reach heaven.

 

[rockytopva]

thank you for expanding on your point that's a good verse, but isn't brokenness in response to our personal heart with God and not the theological brokenness of split doctrine and denominations?

For instance, If I went and told someone that obedience is necessary for God in order for you to enter into his kingdom, and someone else comes up and says its not and someone else comes and says it is but you need to add baptism to that and someone else comes up and says you need to also add speaking in tongues and everyone disagrees with each other, how can we be strong with that? The person standing there would look like we've all gone mad and have no idea who is right and how to reach heaven.

John Bunyan was an uneducated tinker. His dad worked with brass, took John out of basic kindergarten, and then put him to work. John Bunyan would serve in the military where he would call himself, "The chiefest of sinners" and go on and write a book called Grace Abounding to the Chiefest of Sinners. His Pilgrims Progress outsold all other book save the Bible.

What made the difference? What made the turnaround? It was this simple thought by Martin Luther... Paul taught justification by faith in Christ Jesus, without the deeds of the Law. He reported this to the disciples at Antioch. Among the disciples were some that had been brought up in the ancient customs of the Jews. These rose against Paul in quick indignation, accusing him of propagating a gospel of lawlessness. Great dissension followed. Paul and Barnabas stood up for the truth. They testified: "Wherever we preached to the Gentiles, the Holy Ghost came upon those who received the Word. This happened everywhere. We preached not circumcision, we did not require observance of the Law. We preached faith in Jesus Christ. At our preaching of faith, God gave to the hearers the Holy Ghost." From this fact Paul and Barnabas inferred that the Holy Ghost approved the faith of the Gentiles without the Law and circumcision. If the faith of the Gentiles had not pleased the Holy Ghost, He would not have manifested His presence in the uncircumcised hearers of the Word. - Penelope: Or Love’s Labour Lost, vol. 3 | Project Gutenberg (Martin Luther's commentary on the Book of Galatians Chapter 2)

Especially... "Wherever we preached to the Gentiles, the Holy Ghost came upon those who received the Word." And what was that simple little thought? "Paul taught justification by faith in Christ Jesus, without the deeds of the Law."

In studying Paul he would not even Baptize... "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;" - 1 Corinthians 1:14... and his main focus was... For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. - 1 Corinthians 2:2

So.... Simple faith in Christ will do! Whatever it is! Healing, Salvation, the Holy Ghost... Simple faith in Christ will do!

Question... I did not speak in tongues?
Answer... Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30

Simple faith in Christ is enough! Simple faith in Christ will do! Are you still broken? Well... In the hallmark of faith... Out of weakness were made strong. - Hebrews 11:34

We will believe in the possibilities of being strong... Especially when we are weak and broken.

 

[Delvianna]

John Bunyan was an uneducated tinker. His dad worked with brass, took John out of basic kindergarten, and then put him to work. John Bunyan would serve in the military where he would call himself, "The chiefest of sinners" and go on and write a book called Grace Abounding to the Chiefest of Sinners. His Pilgrims Progress outsold all other book save the Bible.

What made the difference? What made the turnaround? It was this simple thought by Martin Luther... Paul taught justification by faith in Christ Jesus, without the deeds of the Law. He reported this to the disciples at Antioch. Among the disciples were some that had been brought up in the ancient customs of the Jews. These rose against Paul in quick indignation, accusing him of propagating a gospel of lawlessness. Great dissension followed. Paul and Barnabas stood up for the truth. They testified: "Wherever we preached to the Gentiles, the Holy Ghost came upon those who received the Word. This happened everywhere. We preached not circumcision, we did not require observance of the Law. We preached faith in Jesus Christ. At our preaching of faith, God gave to the hearers the Holy Ghost." From this fact Paul and Barnabas inferred that the Holy Ghost approved the faith of the Gentiles without the Law and circumcision. If the faith of the Gentiles had not pleased the Holy Ghost, He would not have manifested His presence in the uncircumcised hearers of the Word. - Penelope: Or Love’s Labour Lost, vol. 3 | Project Gutenberg (Martin Luther's commentary on the Book of Galatians Chapter 2)

Especially... "Wherever we preached to the Gentiles, the Holy Ghost came upon those who received the Word." And what was that simple little thought? "Paul taught justification by faith in Christ Jesus, without the deeds of the Law."

In studying Paul he would not even Baptize... "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;" - 1 Corinthians 1:14... and his main focus was... For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. - 1 Corinthians 2:2

So.... Simple faith in Christ will do! Whatever it is! Healing, Salvation, the Holy Ghost... Simple faith in Christ will do!

Question... I did not speak in tongues?
Answer... Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30

Simple faith in Christ is enough! Simple faith in Christ will do! Are you still broken? Well... In the hallmark of faith... Out of weakness were made strong. - Hebrews 11:34

We will believe in the possibilities of being strong... Especially when we are weak and broken.

I'm not arguing what is salvation, I'm just trying to show that depending on denomination, they each have requirements of what salvation is. Talk to a baptist and they'll say 1 thing, talk to a catholic and they'll say another, talk to a Pentecostal and they'll say another. So if the answer of salvation is based on which denomination you go to, that can't be strength.

 

[rockytopva]

I'm not arguing what is salvation, I'm just trying to show that depending on denomination, they each have requirements of what salvation is. Talk to a baptist and they'll say 1 thing, talk to a catholic and they'll say another, talk to a Pentecostal and they'll say another. So if the answer of salvation is based on which denomination you go to, that can't be strength.

So many add so many things! By the time one wades through all those man made laws, like the Jews of the Apostles time, God cannot get a blessing in their edgewise! I would let all those man made laws pass from my mind and grasp a hold of faith in Christ alone!

 

[Pepperdoodle]

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt 7: 13-14.
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Matt 7: 21-23.

The word Christianity has been overtaken by some who aren't Christian and they've attached it to their religion. But their religion isn't Christian. Religions are broken because they aren't Christianity.
Since the word Christian is applied where it really doesn't fit, that helps cause confusion. The author of confusion is the devil.
Any fragmentation isn't because of Christianity. It's in part because man has grabbed the word as I mentioned and attached it to their religion.
Christianity hasn't moved, but man has used the word to justify their religion.
Christianity isn't a wide path. It is a narrow path. One that crowds out false "christian" religions.
The percentages shared from that article speaks of religion or a spiritual experience. Those aren't Christianity. Those ideas listed are some of the things that cause confusion.
As the Scripture verses say, "For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it" and "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven".
I was in a religion for over 20 yrs, which called itself christian. It wasn't. I thank God He showed me over time that it wasn't and He saved me out of it!!
Christianity has never and will never be broken. It's man religions that are broken, but since some use the word Christian it gives actual Christianity a bad name sometimes.
Christianity has always been and will always be strong. Thank God!!

 

[Delvianna]

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt 7: 13-14.
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Matt 7: 21-23.

The word Christianity has been overtaken by some who aren't Christian and they've attached it to their religion. But their religion isn't Christian. Religions are broken because they aren't Christianity.
Since the word Christian is applied where it really doesn't fit, that helps cause confusion. The author of confusion is the devil.
Any fragmentation isn't because of Christianity. It's in part because man has grabbed the word as I mentioned and attached it to their religion.
Christianity hasn't moved, but man has used the word to justify their religion.
Christianity isn't a wide path. It is a narrow path. One that crowds out false "christian" religions.
The percentages shared from that article speaks of religion or a spiritual experience. Those aren't Christianity. Those ideas listed are some of the things that cause confusion.
As the Scripture verses say, "For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it" and "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven".
I was in a religion for over 20 yrs, which called itself christian. It wasn't. I thank God He showed me over time that it wasn't and He saved me out of it!!
Christianity has never and will never be broken. It's man religions that are broken, but since some use the word Christian it gives actual Christianity a bad name sometimes.
Christianity has always been and will always be strong. Thank God!!

Very well thought out and you've made excellent points that I agree with! Thank you for your response and praise God for saving you out of something that wasn't Christian. I too have the same claim, but was in the church almost my whole life until a few years ago.

But I'd love to clarify some things if you don't mind? What is your opinion on a lot of denominations that debate what saves you to heaven? Would you classify some denominations as not Christian, even if they agree with Christ, and are obedient to his word but add in other things? I guess essentially, how many of these denominations wouldn't be classified as Christian and where would the line be? There's more obvious ones like Jehovah's Witnesses (since they don't believe Jesus is God, he is "a god") or Mormons (because... well.. mormons..) but what about others that aren't so apparent? I mean, 45,000 denominations is... .... insane.

 

[rockytopva]

The seven churches of Revelations....

I believe the main difference between the fifth and sixth ones are...

The Church of Sardis (the fifth one) did not believe in backsliding
The Church of Philadelphia (the sixth one) practiced it!

And so it was said... Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out - Revelation 3:12.

This is the main drawback to the church at Philadelphia. They will enjoy a revival movement in which the whole area seems to come out. And then another generation is like... Where did all of that go? And find a need to create yet another denomination.

 

[Pepperdoodle]

Very well thought out and you've made excellent points that I agree with! Thank you for your response and praise God for saving you out of something that wasn't Christian. I too have the same claim, but was in the church almost my whole life until a few years ago.

But I'd love to clarify some things if you don't mind? What is your opinion on a lot of denominations that debate what saves you to heaven? Would you classify some denominations as not Christian, even if they agree with Christ, and are obedient to his word but add in other things? I guess essentially, how many of these denominations wouldn't be classified as Christian and where would the line be? There's more obvious ones like Jehovah's Witnesses (since they don't believe Jesus is God, he is "a god") or Mormons (because... well.. mormons..) but what about others that aren't so apparent? I mean, 45,000 denominations is... .... insane.

My opinion is...
Denominations are man made, not God made.
Christianity isn't a denomination, it's a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Those religions have been debating what does and doesn't save a person forever and it won't stop. Guess it keeps them busy, but it also keep them from a personal relationship with jesus Christ.
I don't think any denominations in and of themselves are Christian. BUT that's not to say there can't be some new Christians within them who haven't realized that yet. God started working on me while I was still in a denomination/religion.
Denominations are not Christian, even if they agree with Christ, and are obedient to his word but add in other things...only people can be Christian, agree with Christ, be obedient to His word. Anything added above what is in His word is man's word, ideas.
In my opinion I see no denomination/religion as Christian. What is Christian separate from all of that is a person who has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. One who follows the principles in His word and not the world's principles.
Yeah, "45,000" denominations are 45,000 man made "religious clubs". Now don't misunderstand, I know they are sincere, but they also are sincerely wrong like in the examples you shared about the JW's, LDS.
But sincerity doesn't get one into Heaven. A lot of sincere people from whatever religion/denomination are in Hell.