Pope Leo says faith and love for migrants are connected

[essentialsaltes]

"The Church, like a mother, accompanies those who are walking," Leo wrote in the document released by the Vatican on Thursday.

"Where the world sees threats, she sees children; where walls are built, she builds bridges. She knows that her proclamation of the Gospel is credible only when it is translated into gestures of closeness and welcome. And she knows that in every rejected migrant, it is Christ himself who knocks at the door of the community."

The pope praised the longstanding tradition in the church to welcome migrants, citing the efforts of the Catholic charities umbrella group Caritas Internationalis. On Thursday, Leo also sent a message to the Catholic Charities USA Network, which has been impacted by the freeze of federal funds for nonprofit organizations, praising their work with migrants and encouraging them to continue their efforts as "agents of hope."

The exhortation, "Dilexi te" (I Have Loved You), divided into five chapters, is addressed to "All Christians." It was signed on Oct. 4, on the feast of St. Francis of Assisi and follows in the footsteps of his predecessors, who starting with St. John XXIII issued forceful document urging nations and believers to care for the poorest in society.

"No Christian can regard the poor simply as a societal problem; they are part of our 'family,'" Leo writes. "They are "'one of us.'"

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I have faith that President Trump would love to use every means at his disposal to find a solution for the migrants.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I have faith that President Trump would love to use every means at his disposal to find a solution for the migrants.

Does he still plan on opening Alcatraz?

 

[High Fidelity]

Easy for him to say when he's surrounded by guards in his city state.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm seeing some pretty deceptive language being used by Leo.

"On Thursday, Leo also sent a message to the Catholic Charities USA Network, which has been impacted by the freeze of federal funds for nonprofit organizations"

...so laundering federal funds through the administrative layers of Catholic Charities USA counts as real charity? Here I was thinking charity is when you use your own money. (of which, the Catholic Church has plenty of their own)

"Where the world sees threats, she sees children; where walls are built, she builds bridges."

So.... massive walls and a security force of armed men in MC Hammer pants seems like it would cut against what he's saying just a tad.


"No Christian can regard the poor simply as a societal problem; they are part of our 'family,'" Leo writes. "They are "'one of us.'"

Decoded: "We'll keep our heightened security, screening checkpoints, our walls, and our unparalleled gazillion dollar art collection... but the rest of you guys should totally make economic sacrifices by opening up your borders because it's the Godly thing to do"


When one of these "all of you countries should do better at looking after the poor" Popes sells the art collection and uses the proceeds to give directly to the cause, then I'll take them more seriously.


Rule of thumb: if an entity making a proposal won't actually be impacted by said proposal -- be wary of said proposal.

It's super easy to tell other people what to do with their resources feigning the role of "concerned 3rd party"

 

[Yarddog]

"The Church, like a mother, accompanies those who are walking," Leo wrote in the document released by the Vatican on Thursday.

"Where the world sees threats, she sees children; where walls are built, she builds bridges. She knows that her proclamation of the Gospel is credible only when it is translated into gestures of closeness and welcome. And she knows that in every rejected migrant, it is Christ himself who knocks at the door of the community."

The pope praised the longstanding tradition in the church to welcome migrants, citing the efforts of the Catholic charities umbrella group Caritas Internationalis. On Thursday, Leo also sent a message to the Catholic Charities USA Network, which has been impacted by the freeze of federal funds for nonprofit organizations, praising their work with migrants and encouraging them to continue their efforts as "agents of hope."

The exhortation, "Dilexi te" (I Have Loved You), divided into five chapters, is addressed to "All Christians." It was signed on Oct. 4, on the feast of St. Francis of Assisi and follows in the footsteps of his predecessors, who starting with St. John XXIII issued forceful document urging nations and believers to care for the poorest in society.

"No Christian can regard the poor simply as a societal problem; they are part of our 'family,'" Leo writes. "They are "'one of us.'"

Matthew 25 : 41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42.
for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43.
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44.
Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45.
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me.
46.
And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Matthew 25 : 41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42.
for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43.
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44.
Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45.
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me.
46.
And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

Right, if one is not influenced or persuaded by the Pope maybe the words of Jesus Christ himself can get through.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

I'm seeing some pretty deceptive language being used by Leo.

"On Thursday, Leo also sent a message to the Catholic Charities USA Network, which has been impacted by the freeze of federal funds for nonprofit organizations"

...so laundering federal funds through the administrative layers of Catholic Charities USA counts as real charity? Here I was thinking charity is when you use your own money. (of which, the Catholic Church has plenty of their own)

"Where the world sees threats, she sees children; where walls are built, she builds bridges."

View attachment 371304
View attachment 371305

So.... massive walls and a security force of armed men in MC Hammer pants seems like it would cut against what he's saying just a tad.


"No Christian can regard the poor simply as a societal problem; they are part of our 'family,'" Leo writes. "They are "'one of us.'"

Decoded: "We'll keep our heightened security, screening checkpoints, our walls, and our unparalleled gazillion dollar art collection... but the rest of you guys should totally make economic sacrifices by opening up your borders because it's the Godly thing to do"


When one of these "all of you countries should do better at looking after the poor" Popes sells the art collection and uses the proceeds to give directly to the cause, then I'll take them more seriously.


Rule of thumb: if an entity making a proposal won't actually be impacted by said proposal -- be wary of said proposal.

It's super easy to tell other people what to do with their resources feigning the role of "concerned 3rd party"

Whoa there, we are not selling the art collection.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I'm seeing some pretty deceptive language being used by Leo.

"On Thursday, Leo also sent a message to the Catholic Charities USA Network, which has been impacted by the freeze of federal funds for nonprofit organizations"

...so laundering federal funds through the administrative layers of Catholic Charities USA counts as real charity? Here I was thinking charity is when you use your own money. (of which, the Catholic Church has plenty of their own)

It isn't charity, no. That said (and I hate defending them) CC USA are like many other non-profit charity networks in that they are capable of delivering a large number of social services, some of which the government wishes to fund. It is easier for the government to provide grants to food banks than to start and operate Federal Food Pantries. I would prefer it if the federally funded charity was more clearly labeled: "Welcome to our food bank. The building was provided by CC USA, labor by our volunteers, and 80% of the food was funded by the USDA, the rest by our donors."

"Where the world sees threats, she sees children; where walls are built, she builds bridges."

View attachment 371304
View attachment 371305

So.... massive walls and a security force of armed men in MC Hammer pants seems like it would cut against what he's saying just a tad.


"No Christian can regard the poor simply as a societal problem; they are part of our 'family,'" Leo writes. "They are "'one of us.'"

Decoded: "We'll keep our heightened security, screening checkpoints, our walls, and our unparalleled gazillion dollar art collection... but the rest of you guys should totally make economic sacrifices by opening up your borders because it's the Godly thing to do"


When one of these "all of you countries should do better at looking after the poor" Popes sells the art collection and uses the proceeds to give directly to the cause, then I'll take them more seriously.


Rule of thumb: if an entity making a proposal won't actually be impacted by said proposal -- be wary of said proposal.

It's super easy to tell other people what to do with their resources feigning the role of "concerned 3rd party"

They need that money for their lawsuit settlements.

 

[ralliann]

I'm seeing some pretty deceptive language being used by Leo.

"On Thursday, Leo also sent a message to the Catholic Charities USA Network, which has been impacted by the freeze of federal funds for nonprofit organizations"

...so laundering federal funds through the administrative layers of Catholic Charities USA counts as real charity? Here I was thinking charity is when you use your own money. (of which, the Catholic Church has plenty of their own)

"Where the world sees threats, she sees children; where walls are built, she builds bridges."

View attachment 371304
View attachment 371305

So.... massive walls and a security force of armed men in MC Hammer pants seems like it would cut against what he's saying just a tad.


"No Christian can regard the poor simply as a societal problem; they are part of our 'family,'" Leo writes. "They are "'one of us.'"

Decoded: "We'll keep our heightened security, screening checkpoints, our walls, and our unparalleled gazillion dollar art collection... but the rest of you guys should totally make economic sacrifices by opening up your borders because it's the Godly thing to do"


When one of these "all of you countries should do better at looking after the poor" Popes sells the art collection and uses the proceeds to give directly to the cause, then I'll take them more seriously.


Rule of thumb: if an entity making a proposal won't actually be impacted by said proposal -- be wary of said proposal.

It's super easy to tell other people what to do with their resources feigning the role of "concerned 3rd party"

What happened to Catholic teaching to obey the law of the land?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It isn't charity, no. That said (and I hate defending them) CC USA are like many other non-profit charity networks in that they are capable of delivering a large number of social services, some of which the government wishes to fund. It is easier for the government to provide grants to food banks than to start and operate Federal Food Pantries. I would prefer it if the federally funded charity was more clearly labeled: "Welcome to our food bank. The building was provided by CC USA, labor by our volunteers, and 80% of the food was funded by the USDA, the rest by our donors."

The problem with a lot of the religiously-based food banks, soup kitchens, second-hand clothing operations, etc... is that while they are providing the advertised service, it often comes with proselytizing, which creates a conflict of interest with regards to public money.

So people who go are getting the "free meal" in the same way that people get a "free blu-ray player" for sitting through a timeshare presentation.

Even when it's not overt, it's still introducing a concept I refer to as "passive proselytizing".

So when the government is giving a specific church funds to run a food bank or similar operation, they're basically buying them good PR, and making them seem more appealing than other Churches (and more appealing than non-religion in some cases), which can have a certain influencing effect.

They need that money for their lawsuit settlements.

I know you're being somewhat tongue in cheek there...

But I think they'd have enough money to do both.

List of wealthiest religious organizations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(wiki lists it as "incalculable due to widespread properties globally")

How much money does “God” have?

The Catholic Church has at least $73 billion based on media reports and financial statements, but it likely has billions more.

www.marketplace.org

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

What happened to Catholic teaching to obey the law of the land?

Catholic teaching states that an unjust law is not a law at all and has no binding force, because it conflicts with God's law and human dignity. An unjust law is one that is not in accordance with reason, does not serve the common good, or violates the natural law and human rights.

https://franciscanaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/A-Call-to-Conscience-Catholic-Teaching-Civil-Disobedience-1.pdf

 

[bèlla]

I know you're being somewhat tongue in cheek there...

But I think they'd have enough money to do both.

That’s why I don’t give money to religious organizations. If I see someone doing work I value I have no problem making a donation. But large entities are off-limits.

~bella

 

[JSRG]

I'm seeing some pretty deceptive language being used by Leo.

"On Thursday, Leo also sent a message to the Catholic Charities USA Network, which has been impacted by the freeze of federal funds for nonprofit organizations"

...so laundering federal funds through the administrative layers of Catholic Charities USA counts as real charity? Here I was thinking charity is when you use your own money. (of which, the Catholic Church has plenty of their own)

"Where the world sees threats, she sees children; where walls are built, she builds bridges."

View attachment 371304
View attachment 371305

So.... massive walls and a security force of armed men in MC Hammer pants seems like it would cut against what he's saying just a tad.

This whole argument of "the pope shouldn't criticize hostility towards immigration while there are walls around Vatican City" and the like arguments, while popular talking points, don't actually make that much sense to me. The status of the United States (or practically any country) and Vatican City are not comparable.

Vatican City, while technically a country, is rather different from other countries. I believe that, except for the pope, all citizenship is temporary, and I don't believe anyone can count it as their native country, as everyone who lives there moved in from another. In a lot of ways it feels more like a military base than a country insofar as it's a large area where a bunch of important people work and some people live, which means it obviously needs a lot of defense (much like how there's a lot of security around the White House), but isn't a place one normally expects to live their entire life in unless they're either so old they could plausibly expect to die there or they're the pope.

Vatican City is also tiny. It's less than half a square kilometer (less than a quarter of a square mile). The university campus close to me is multiple times larger than Vatican City. It's not capable of bringing in any real number of migrants to live (are there even any migrants who are particularly keen to move into Vatican City anyway?). Maybe if the Papal States were still around you might have a point, but Italy took those over in the 19th century.

 

[Yarddog]

What happened to Catholic teaching to obey the law of the land?

It's not against the law to treat immigrants with compassion.

Are you implying that America isn't a Christian nation?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That’s why I don’t give money to religious organizations. If I see someone doing work I value I have no problem making a donation. But large entities are off-limits.

~bella

I don't even have a problem with individuals donating to larger religious organizations for such matters...

It's the government money aspect that's the issue.

I mentioned the aspect before of "passive proselytizing".

Pretend I were a member of a church, and sought out people who were on hard times, and hooked them up, I don't need to say a word about the specifics my religion, they just need to know which religion I'm a part of, the fact that I hooked them up, alone, will increase the chances of them seeing my religion favorably, and the likelihood that they'll want to join.

Doing that privately is fine (albeit a little sneaky). If I want to use my own money to say "Hey Rick, I see your car has been having trouble, I really want to help you out with that... tell you what, I want to buy you a new car, meet me in the parking of my church to come pick it up, it's that Lutheran Church at the corner of 2nd Street and West Avenue this Friday to pick up the keys"

In that scenario, I've said nothing specific about a religion, but in that hypothetical scenario, I've just raised the stock of the Lutheran church in their eyes in a way that may make them more inclined to join.

The Mormons use that approach a lot, and they actually made a term for it. "Friendshipping".

Basically, going out of their way to be overly-nice as a means of portraying their faith in a positive light to win new converts.


If people want to leverage that strategy with their money, go for it lol.... but government money shouldn't be in the mix for that.

 

[bèlla]

In that scenario, I've said nothing specific about a religion, but in that hypothetical scenario, I've just raised the stock of the Lutheran church in their eyes in a way that may make them more inclined to join.

The Mormons use that approach a lot, and they actually made a term for it. "Friendshipping".

I’m familiar with the practice. In the early days of the internet most of the blogs directed at women were created by mormon wives and the content was good. They never mentioned their religion and many were supporting their households through the blog or funding education for their spouse. Although they didn’t “tell you what to do” they were demonstrating mormon principles and influencing the reader. My shadow self is a lot like that.

Basically, going out of their way to be overly-nice as a means of portraying their faith in a positive light to win new converts.

If people want to leverage that strategy with their money, go for it lol.... but government money shouldn't be in the mix for that.

I understand and you’re right.

~bella

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This whole argument of "the pope shouldn't criticize hostility towards immigration while there are walls around Vatican City" and the like arguments, while popular talking points, don't actually make that much sense to me. The status of the United States (or practically any country) and Vatican City are not comparable.

Vatican City, while technically a country, is rather different from other countries. I believe that, except for the pope, all citizenship is temporary, and I don't believe anyone can count it as their native country, as everyone who lives there moved in from another. In a lot of ways it feels more like a military base than a country insofar as it's a large area where a bunch of important people work and some people live, which means it obviously needs a lot of defense (much like how there's a lot of security around the White House), but isn't a place one normally expects to live their entire life in unless they're either so old they could plausibly expect to die there or they're the pope.

Vatican City is also tiny. It's less than half a square kilometer (less than a quarter of a square mile). The university campus close to me is multiple times larger than Vatican City. It's not capable of bringing in any real number of migrants to live (are there even any migrants who are particularly keen to move into Vatican City anyway?). Maybe if the Papal States were still around you might have a point, but Italy took those over in the 19th century.

If they're not comparable, then the pope is no position to be telling others how to run their country.

At best, it's like that person who's been divorced 3 times, doling out relationship advice from some intangible place of "expertise" and getting offended when people don't want to take their recommendations seriously.

Ultimately, it doesn't impact him or his organization, so he doesn't have a dog in the fight.

If we opened our borders tomorrow and said "free housing and healthcare for all who want to make the journey, nobody will be turned away", is he going to instruct his organization kick in a couple billion to help cover the costs?

 

[Hans Blaster]

The problem with a lot of the religiously-based food banks, soup kitchens, second-hand clothing operations, etc... is that while they are providing the advertised service, it often comes with proselytizing, which creates a conflict of interest with regards to public money.

So people who go are getting the "free meal" in the same way that people get a "free blu-ray player" for sitting through a timeshare presentation.

Even when it's not overt, it's still introducing a concept I refer to as "passive proselytizing".

So when the government is giving a specific church funds to run a food bank or similar operation, they're basically buying them good PR, and making them seem more appealing than other Churches (and more appealing than non-religion in some cases), which can have a certain influencing effect.

Absolutely. I can't say about this particular organization as I have never seen them in action.

I know you're being somewhat tongue in cheek there...

But I think they'd have enough money to do both.

List of wealthiest religious organizations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(wiki lists it as "incalculable due to widespread properties globally")

How much money does “God” have?

The Catholic Church has at least $73 billion based on media reports and financial statements, but it likely has billions more.

www.marketplace.org

It's a lot of lawsuits. I figure every victim should get their own hospital.

 

[BCP1928]

If we opened our borders tomorrow and said "free housing and healthcare for all who want to make the journey, nobody will be turned away", is he going to instruct his organization kick in a couple billion to help cover the costs?

Is that what you think the Pope meant by compassion?