The 2025 Government Shutdown Thread

[mark46]

Republicans are 100% to blame (or perhaps, since most of them are rubber stamping Trump's directives, Trump is 100% to blame for the shutdown.)

The ACA is tremendously popular. Republicans couldn't cancel it even though they tried 40 times--eventually thwarted by a Senato r currently wearing a halo in heaven.

That was back when there were good Republicans. I don't think there's a single good Republican left. Murkowski and Collins talk the talk on holdouts, but generally get bribed with pork barrel projects for their states and cave.

Not believing that there are good Republicans will assure so-called liberals defeats until they change that attitude, probably not until at least 2030.
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But, yes, Trump is 100% at fault for the shutdown as Obama when was making the decisions.

We liberals celebrated Pelosi's leadership and loyalty. Of course, now the other team is in charge and it is nigh unto treason (according to the left) for the current House speaker to show similar loyalty.
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BOTTOM LINE
The Democrats are in the minority and the minority has almost always understood that the government shouldn't be closed down and the debt limit should be increased as necessary.

There are many. many opportunities to try to force compromise in bills to be passed by the Senate and to stamp your feet and vote "no".

IMO, there are TWO times when this is totally inappropriate. This is one. Approval of debt limit increases is the other.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

The republicans in the senate are voting together,

Well, all but one.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Well, all but one.

He kind of has his own party (or at least the rest would like to think that way) and created his own association for doctors of his specialty. I'm thinking he's the kind of guy who gets tackled by his neighbors while raking the yard.

 

[camille70]

Marjorie Taylor Greene on twitter...

"The Republican controlled Senate used the nuclear option today to override the 60 vote rule in order to confirm over 100 Trump nominees, yet continues to claim Democrats are causing the shutdown.

Spoiler alert, the Republicans in the Senate can also use the nuclear option to reopen the government and override the Democrats just like they literally did today to confirm Trump nominees."

https://x.com/RepMTG/status/1975735067503677754

 

[Arcangl86]

Marjorie Taylor Greene on twitter...

"The Republican controlled Senate used the nuclear option today to override the 60 vote rule in order to confirm over 100 Trump nominees, yet continues to claim Democrats are causing the shutdown.

Spoiler alert, the Republicans in the Senate can also use the nuclear option to reopen the government and override the Democrats just like they literally did today to confirm Trump nominees."

https://x.com/RepMTG/status/1975735067503677754

I agree with MTG?!? is it the eschaton?

 

[mark46]

They did that for all of august (and the last week of July).

Why is it a waste of time to work on appropriartion bills?

Why would the Dems trust a weasel like Mike Johnson?

There is no reason to trust the Republicans.

It is a matter of Democrats doing their job. It is NOT the time to repeal laws that they don't like and didn't have enough votes to defeat or to veto.

For the 70 years that I have followed American politics, it has always been right to sign a clean CR or to approve a clean bill to raise the debt limit. Obama was very clear when he was in the situation. One person to recently point this out just a few months ago was Schumer. Of course, now he cannot have the integrity of a Federer (or even of a Schumer). Instead, he must bow to the left, lest they primary him with AOC.

Elections have their consequences. Voters made the Democrats the minority. Democrats can choose to keep the government closed or they can do their job. The Republicans can wait until 5 senators cave and vote for the CR. Then Schumer will be able to say that he, Sanders and AOC stood up to the Republicans. In the meantime, Trump's folks will reorganize and furlough folks with an eye to eventually cutting another 200,000 (doubling DOGE's numbers and going a bit beyond Clinton's reduction in federal jobs. The shutdown simply makes it easier for Republicans to do what they have wanted to do since Reagan: reduce the six=ze of government, including reducing the federal responsibility for the support of safety net programs.
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After the clean CR is signed, the Democrats who voted for the CR will need to convince the Trump folks that it is in everyone's political interest to extend the subsidies and cuts to Medicaid until after the 2026 elections. If they cannot do this, the Democrats COULD have their number one issue. Of course, most Democrats won't do that. Trump will be the #1 issue.

Of course, the left and Schumer will want none of this. They will stand firm for the reversal of most of the law passed by Republicans earlier this year. But there will be enough Democrats willing to do most anything to extend the subsidies and Medicaid cuts. And they will be the heroes, not the left.
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But the BOTTOM LINE is that the Democrats could have avoided all of this, including the continuation of the tax rates simply by having Biden keep his word and drop out after the midterms in 2022. Trump often says that everything bad is Biden's fault. In many ways that is indeed true.

Biden did great things in the first two years, after beating Trump as promised, and by getting Democrats elected to the Senate and to the House. But then Biden failed America by refusing to step aside and bow out and support an open primary process. Biden's legacy of getting Trump elected will be remembered for decades.

 

[Hans Blaster]

There is no reason to trust the Republicans.

It is a matter of Democrats doing their job. It is NOT the time to repeal laws that they don't like and didn't have enough votes to defeat or to veto.

The ACA subsidy extension is not related to repealing any law. It is literally something that would look like this:

in XXX Strike "December 31, 2025" and replace with "December 31, 2026"​

Where XXX would be the location where the ACA subsidy expiration date is set in the current law.

A "clean CR" typically contains dozens of "extenders" to authorization, tax laws, etc. Most of them don't have much if any budgetary impact.

For the 70 years that I have followed American politics, it has always been right to sign a clean CR or to approve a clean bill to raise the debt limit. Obama was very clear when he was in the situation. One person to recently point this out just a few months ago was Schumer. Of course, now he cannot have the integrity of a Federer (or even of a Schumer). Instead, he must bow to the left, lest they primary him with AOC.

Elections have their consequences. Voters made the Democrats the minority. Democrats can choose to keep the government closed or they can do their job. The Republicans can wait until 5 senators cave and vote for the CR. Then Schumer will be able to say that he, Sanders and AOC stood up to the Republicans. In the meantime, Trump's folks will reorganize and furlough folks with an eye to eventually cutting another 200,000 (doubling DOGE's numbers and going a bit beyond Clinton's reduction in federal jobs. The shutdown simply makes it easier for Republicans to do what they have wanted to do since Reagan: reduce the six=ze of government, including reducing the federal responsibility for the support of safety net programs.
==========
After the clean CR is signed, the Democrats who voted for the CR will need to convince the Trump folks that it is in everyone's political interest to extend the subsidies and cuts to Medicaid until after the 2026 elections. If they cannot do this, the Democrats COULD have their number one issue. Of course, most Democrats won't do that. Trump will be the #1 issue.

Of course, the left and Schumer will want none of this. They will stand firm for the reversal of most of the law passed by Republicans earlier this year. But there will be enough Democrats willing to do most anything to extend the subsidies and Medicaid cuts. And they will be the heroes, not the left.
====
But the BOTTOM LINE is that the Democrats could have avoided all of this, including the continuation of the tax rates simply by having Biden keep his word and drop out after the midterms in 2022. Trump often says that everything bad is Biden's fault. In many ways that is indeed true.

Biden did great things in the first two years, after beating Trump as promised, and by getting Democrats elected to the Senate and to the House. But then Biden failed America by refusing to step aside and bow out and support an open primary process. Biden's legacy of getting Trump elected will be remembered for decades.

I have a hard time following your posts. Are the "=====" supposed to be meaningful? Do they mark the end of your section and the beginning of a quote, or what?

 

[mark46]

The ACA subsidy extension is not related to repealing any law. It is literally something that would look like this:

in XXX Strike "December 31, 2025" and replace with "December 31, 2026"​

Where XXX would be the location where the ACA subsidy expiration date is set in the current law.

Is this all the Democratic bill does? Is it really a clean CR that merely makes the change you mention. If not, isn't this a strawman?
What you suggest SHOULD be presented on the floor by Democrats or should be presented as an amendment of the Republican bill, perhaps even by a Republican.

From all that I have seen, The Democratic bill includes much, much more. I suppose I shouldn't have called it a repeal of the law of the land. It is indeed its own law with the expect of repealing sections of the law passed earlier this year.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Is this all the Democratic bill does? Is it really a clean CR that merely makes the change you mention. If not, isn't this a strawman?

I don't know. Why don't you go find it and read it.

What you suggest SHOULD be presented on the floor by Democrats or should be presented as an amendment of the Republican bill, perhaps even by a Republican.

From all that I have seen, The Democratic bill includes much, much more. I suppose I shouldn't have called it a repeal of the law of the land. It is indeed its own law with the expect of repealing sections of the law passed earlier this year.

Quote it then.

 

[essentialsaltes]

BREAKING

Federal workers not entitled to back pay after shutdown, budget office claims​

The top lawyer at the White House Office of Management and Budget argued that the law Congress passed and Trump signed guaranteeing back pay to furloughed workers in 2019 does no such thing, according to a new draft memo obtained by The Post.

President Trump says some furloughed federal workers ‘don’t deserve’ back pay​

Trump added: “For the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of, and we'll take care of them in a different way."

The Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019, which was passed during the last shutdown, says that federal workers who are furloughed during a lapse in government funding “shall be paid for the period of the lapse.”

But the White House argues in a new legal memo that this law does not automatically cover all furloughed workers because of an amendment approved nine days after its original passage in January 2019, according to Axios, which first reported the White House's new opinion about back pay.

The amendment states that furloughed workers would be paid back "subject to the enactment of appropriations Acts ending the lapse."

 

[mark46]

I don't know. Why don't you go find it and read it.

Quote it then.

I apologize. I cannot find the details of bills within the last week. However, the New York Times says that more is included that extending Obamacare subsidies. For example, Democrats have a clause regarding public broadcasting. I suspect that the reversal of the shifting of various Medicaid costs is still in there as it was when rival bills were presented prior to the shutdown.
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As I said, I strongly support the proposal of a clean bill with the one change of extending the Obamacare subsidies.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Marjorie Taylor Greene doubles down on her unexpected break with Republicans over health care in shutdown fight​

To pass appropriations bills, the House would need to be in session. Johnson, however, has insisted that he won’t bring the House back until the shutdown ends.

Greene believes that's a mistake.

“We should be doing appropriations. The House should be in session and continuing that work,” she said.