Israel and the New Covenant.

[SabbathBlessings]

I have never given all of my reasons regarding keeping the Sabbath so one can't tell me my reasons, if I have never stated nor has one asked. That would require knowing my thoughts, which only God has that power and sometimes my husband.

To clarify, I do not pluck out the 4th commandment from the other 9 commandments and either did God Deut 4:13 Exo34:28 breaking any of the commandments is sin 1John3:4 James 2:11 and according to the Scriptures no one is saved in their sins Heb10:26-30 its what Jesus came to save us from Mat 1:21 -we need to turn from sin, abiding in Christ, living as Jesus taught and lived who we are to follow. To claim the 4th commandment is not moral would make one god and basically telling the God He made a mistake because He said it is doing righteousness Isa 56:1-2 which is moral. To claim one of God's commandments that He personal wrote and spoke that was personally, is part of His Testimony, under His mercy seat, ordained and blessed by God that He sanctified made holy from the very beginning is not moral. Thats way above me.

 

[Hentenza]

I never said that, you did not me.

Actually you did. Teachings have consequences. If you teach that the 4th commandment is moral and those that don’t keep it are sinning then you are indeed saying that those that dont keep the 4th commandment because they worship on Sunday are in fact sinning. You can’t have it both ways.

I do not believe every person who worshipped on Sunday is going to hell.

No? So the 4th commandment is not moral then?

But if we know the truth about God's commandments and turn from them than I believe one will face judgement Heb 10:26-30.

Oh but look, you are actually saying that if we don’t worship on Saturday we face judgement. You can’t see the inconsistency of your argument?

It’s not for you or I to decide, I just advocate we be faithful to what God said John 14:15 Exo 20:6 instead of following what is popular by man.

Nah this is the typical mind game to change folks that do not know better to unbiblical teachings.

 

[ralliann]

Are you not understanding what I am saying? You are not even addressing what I said.

I am going to point you back to this post Israel and the New Covenant.

Please address these points.

Your pointing to your own understanding?
Pr 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
I pointed you to the scripture.
What more is there to say?

 

[Hentenza]

I have never given all of my reasons regarding keeping the Sabbath so one can't tell me my reasons, if I have never stated nor has one asked. That would require knowing my throughs, which only God has that power and sometimes my husband.

Your words speak for you. When you make an argument your reasons are irrelevant because your reasons are not evidence.

To clarify, I do not pluck out the 4th commandment from the other 9 commandments and either did God Deut 4:13 Exo34:28 breaking any of the commandments is sin 1John3:4 James 2:11 and according to the Scriptures no one us saved in their sins Heb10:26-30. To claim the 4th commandment is not moral would make one god and basically telling god He made a mistake.

No it merely should tell you that you simply made a mistake. The 4th commandment has always been ritual not moral. I’ve showed you that over and over again.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Your pointing to your own understanding?
Pr 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
I pointed you to the scripture.
What more is there to say?

You never answered the question from Scripture about how Hargers son came about verses Sarah's son. The son from the promise verses the son from flesh. The topic of what Paul is contrasting.

You just went off topic, even through I asked at least twice to answer the question. I asked you to clarify but just quoted random Scriptures not on topic. Sorry, this is not what these verses above means, but believe as you wish.

 

[ralliann]

You never answered the question from Scripture about how Hargers son came about verses Sarah's son. The son from the promise verses the son from flesh. The topic of what Paul is contrasting.

You just went off topic, even through I asked at least twice. I asked you to clarify but just quoted random Scriptures not on topic. Sorry, this is not what these verses above means, but believe as you wish.

I did! I absolutely did. Maybe what you are missing? I don't know, but I will give it a try? The heirs of the Royal covenant are those heirs which are firstborn. Does that help. These have a portion in both. They have inheritance according to the flesh, as princes, they have an inheritance that is above their brethren according to the heavenly promise of kings....all are heirs, but only one is firstborn.

 

[Hentenza]

I am not interested in what you show me, I am interested in what the God of the Bible says. He had A LOT to say about His Sabbath. Jesus said to live by His words Mat4:4 not anyone else's, that's what I am going to do. If you wish to judge God's commandments and decide what is moral or not, that can be between you and He, we all have to be accountable for our teachings Mat5:19

And you do as you wish but stop spreading the legalism that does not exist in the new covenant. You keep going back to Mat. 4:4 like it makes your argument. This verse means nothing regarding the keeping of the sabbath. Jesus never said, even once, that the Christian needs to worship on Saturday. Jesus never said, even once, that the ritual of the 4th commandment was necessary for salvation. Not even once do what words are you following.

Secondly, no one here is nullifying any of the commandments but Jesus is now the lord of the Sabbath and the sabbath rest is now the rest in Jesus. Jesus changed the Commandment not us so Matt. 5:19 does not apply to your argument either.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not one verse says Jesus changed the Sabbath commandment, I guess why people keep quoting themself and not Him. Jesus being Lord of the Sabbath, does not say He changed it or morphed into the Sabbath commandment. God promised He would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 why all of His Testimony unedited will be in heaven Heb 8:1-5 Heb 11:19 Rev 15:5, we were warned God's times and laws would be changed, but not by God Dan7:25 so I guess its the test, who are we going to obey and follow. What God said, or what man says.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I did! I absolutely did. Maybe what you are missing? I don't know, but I will give it a try? The heirs of the Royal covenant are those heirs which are firstborn. Does that help. These have a portion in both. They have inheritance according to the flesh, as princes, they have an inheritance that is above their brethren according to the heavenly promise of kings....all are heirs, but only one is firstborn.

I am asking you something very specific.

How did the son of Hagar come about, please post Scripture and why did it come about that way.

How did the son of Sarah come about and why did it come about that way.

This is the topic, nothing else.

Thanks

 

[ralliann]

Not one verse says Jesus changed the Sabbath commandment, I guess why people keep quoting them and not Him. God promised He would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 so I guess its the test, who are we going to obey and follow.

There is a verse that speaks OF ANOTHER DAY
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. {Jesus: that is, Joshua }
If you read the law, you will find this Sabbath rest is when all their enemies are destroyed and they can rest in their portion of inheritance......
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

 

[ralliann]

I am asking you something very specific.

How did the son of Hagar come about, please post Scripture and why did it come about that way.

How did the son of Sarah come about and why did it come about that way.

This is the topic, nothing else.

Thanks

Hagar and SARAH are allegories for the two covenants. Ishmael inherited land, so did Israel, as 12 princes. Which seed was to go into slavery?
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

Which seed went into exile to serve other rulers for punishment? Why? because they were under the law. They were still under the kingdom of ROME! Ok with it yet?
De 28:36 The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.
De 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There is a verse that speaks OF ANOTHER DAY
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. {Jesus: that is, Joshua }
If you read the law, you will find this Sabbath rest is when all their enemies are destroyed and they can rest in their portion of inheritance......
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Yes, are you claiming now Joshua changed God's Sabbath?

Why did it take so long for the Israelites to enter into their promised land which was their rest? because of their disobedience, why there was another day as it took them an extra 40 years to enter.

The rest in this verse has nothing to do with the Sabbath

Lexical Summary
katapauó: To cause to rest, to bring to a stop, to quiet
Original Word: καταπαύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katapauó
Pronunciation: kat-ap-ow'-o
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap-ow'-o)
KJV: cease, (give) rest(-rain)
NASB: rested, given rest, restrained
Word Origin: [from G2596 (κατά - according) and G3973 (παύω - cease)]

1. to settle down
2. (literally) to colonize
3. (figuratively) to (cause to) desist

Joshua never changed the Sabbath nor did David, what the author of Hebrews is quoting. The another day was entering into their rest which was their land- entering into Canaan

Josh 1:13 “Remember the word which Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, saying, ‘The Lord your God is giving you rest and is giving you this land.’

Jos 1:15 until the Lord has given your brethren rest, as He gave you, and they also have taken possession of the land which the Lord your God is giving them. Then you shall return to the land of your possession and enjoy it, which Moses the Lord’s servant gave you on this side of the Jordan toward the sunrise.”

The another day to enter was 40 years later into the wilderness because of their disobedience to God's commandments.

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Why this passage in Hebrews 3 and 4 is warning us of the exact thing that is being taught, today if we hear His voice and not harden our hearts to the deceitfulness of sin. Heb 3:7-19 Heb 4:11

 

[Hentenza]

Not one verse says Jesus changed the Sabbath commandment, I guess why people keep quoting themself and not Him. Jesus being Lord of the Sabbath, does not say He changed it or morphed into the Sabbath commandment. God promised He would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 why all of His Testimony unedited will be in heaven Heb 8:1-5 Heb 11:19 Rev 15:5, we were warned God's times and laws would be changed, but not by God Dan7:25 so I guess its the test, who are we going to obey and follow. What God said, or what man says.

Look, there was no Sabbath keeping between creation and Moses. The command was given as part of the Jewish law under the old covenant. The 4th commandment was fulfilled along with rest of the law by Christ who is the Lord of the Sabbath and our sabbath rest.

Paul tells in Gal. 4:9-11 that after knowing God and to be known by God turning back to the weak and worthless elementary principles including observing days was a problem.

“But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭9‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 4:9-11 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over agai | New American Standard Bible -

But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over agai

bible.com

 

[ralliann]

I am asking you something very specific.

How did the son of Hagar come about, please post Scripture and why did it come about that way.

How did the son of Sarah come about and why did it come about that way.

This is the topic, nothing else.

Thanks

Read it. It tells you. the same way Esau came about, along with Jacob. the same way israels 12 sons came about. You are finding something wrong with what Sarah did and there was not as Scripture clearly says!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Look, there was no Sabbath keeping between creation and Moses. The command was given as part of the Jewish law under the old covenant. The 4th commandment was fulfilled along with rest of the law by Christ who is the Lord of the Sabbath and our sabbath rest.

Paul tells in Gal. 4:9-11 that after knowing God and to be known by God turning back to the weak and worthless elementary principles including observing days was a problem.

“But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭9‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 4:9-11 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over agai | New American Standard Bible -

But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over agai

bible.com

God said the Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 made for man Mark 2:27. Jesus used the Greek word mankind and Hebrews word Adam. Abraham kept God’s commandments Gen 26:5 and God said the Sabbath is a commandment of God Deut 4:13 Exo 20:8-11

Gal 4 doesn‘tsay anything about not keeping the Sabbath commandment.

Let’s get back to the topic. You said Jesus changed the Sabbath commandment. Where did He in His own words say that? God gave His commandments, His written and spoken Testimony clearly- He literally wrote it out. If God was going to reverse a commandment, it would be just a clear. He however promised He would not Psa 89:34 There is NO Scripture that says the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated. It’s a teaching of man, just as it was predicted Dan 7:25 2 Tim4:3-4

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Read it. It tells you. the same way Esau came about, along with Jacob. the same way israels 12 sons came about. You are finding something wrong with what Sarah did and there was not as Scripture clearly says!

I didn‘t ask about Jacob or Esau. I asked about the son of Hagar and the son of Sarah. It’s been the topic this whole time.

 

[ralliann]

I didn‘t ask about Jacob or Esau. I asked about the son of Hagar and the son of Sarah. It’s been the topic this whole time.

I am telling you it came about the same way. But you refuse that. That was my answer.
I think you have a rabbinic (pharisaical) framework in your mind that you cannot get out side of. That is why you keep asking me the same question. That framework takes the heavenly things of Genesis 17 and puts them into the promise of the earthly covenant of Genesi 15.
The law, which corresponds to Genesi 15. Is strictly earthly, and by nature. An example. The firstborn under the law, is strictly birth order. In the covenant of Genesis 17 it is not. At least I think that is the problem here. Rabbinic Judaism from the Pharisees, does the same thing. They want to stuff the heavenly things into the earthly inheritance.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am telling you it came about the same way. But you refuse that. That was my answer.
I think you have a rabbinic (pharisaical) framework in your mind that you cannot get out side of. That is why you keep asking me the same question. That framework takes the heavenly things of Genesis 17 and puts them into the promise of the earthly covenant of Genesi 15.
The law, which corresponds to Genesi 15. Is strictly earthly, and by nature. An example. The firstborn under the law, is strictly birth order. In the covenant of Genesis 17 it is not. At least I think that is the problem here. Rabbinic Judaism from the Pharisees, does the same thing. They want to stuff the heavenly things into the earthly inheritance.

You haven’t addressed what I asked. It’s been about 5 times, its not really that hard, its what Paul was contrasting Hagar and Sarah’s sons, what I kept asking., I give up.

Thanks for engaging.

 

[Hentenza]

God said the Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 made for man Mark 2:27. Jesus used the Greek word mankind and Hebrews word Adam. Abraham kept God’s commandments Gen 26:5 and God said the Sabbath is a commandment of God Deut 4:13 Exo 20:8-11

The law was not given at creation and there is no evidence whatsoever that it was practiced before Moses. So where in scripture was the 4th commandment given to anyone before Moses? Gen. 26:5 does not say which law or which commandments. There was no law before Moses (Rom 5:13-14).

Gal 4 doesn‘tsay anything about not keeping the Sabbath commandment.

It does, you just dont like it. That is what keeping days is all about which is why there are many sabbaths including Saturday keeping.

Let’s get back to the topic.

We are on topic.

You said Jesus changed the Sabbath commandment. Where did He in His own words say that? God gave His commandments, His written and spoken Testimony clearly- He literally wrote it out. If God was going to reverse a commandment, it would be just a clear. He however promised He would not Psa 89:34 There is NO Scripture that says the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated. It’s a teaching of man, just as it was predicted Dan 7:25 2 Tim4:3-4

You are making assumptions that you can’t defend. Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath and that the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath. The implication here is inescapable. Man can’t keep the sabbath perfectly so now with Christ they can keep it perfectly through Him. The writer of Hebrews even equals entering Jesus rest is the same as entering God’s rest (Heb. 4:10).
Again, where in post crucifixion scripture is the 4th commandment commanded to the Christian?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The law was not given at creation

God literally said it did in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:11. Where there is no law there is no sin Rom4:15. Did Eve not covet the forbidden fruit and steal it when it wasn’t hers? Did she break the very first commandment when she choose to listen to the other spirit instead of obeying and being faithful to God. Didn’t Cain kill Abel where God said sin lies at his door, and if there is no law there is no sin, where is thou shalt not murder come from? The Ten Commandments. Scripture shows they were keeping the law before it was codified, so I disagree.

and there is no evidence whatsoever that it was practiced before Moses. So where in scripture was the 4th commandment given to anyone before Moses? Gen. 26:5 does not say which law or which commandments. There was no law before Moses (Rom 5:13-14).

It does you just dont like it. That is what keeping days is all about which is why there are many sabbaths including Saturday keeping.

We are on topic.

You are making assumptions that you can’t defend. Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath and that the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath. The implication here is inescapable. Man can’t keep the sabbath perfectly so now with Christ they can keep it perfectly through Him. The writer of Hebrews even equals entering Jesus rest is the same as entering God’s rest (Heb. 4:10).

Still no Scripture about Jesus saying He changed His Sabbath. I know because it’s not there, it would make God break His promise Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 which He doesn’t.

I am going to move on, i think we have exhausted this. I am okay agreeing to disagree. God will sort this out in His own time.

I wish you well.