Israel and the New Covenant.

[Hentenza]

Thats for God to decide for both of us.

Lets bring in some context

Paul is illustrating the changed status of one who is freed from the bondage of sin to be married to Christ. This is an illustration a women, her husband and the law of marriage verses 1-3 Which ones of these parties dies? Not the law. If so the whole argument over adultery would be pointless.

Rom 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law [a]has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Sure and because the husband died she is free from the law. Do you not understand scripture? Are you that desperate to promote the law?

Your commentary is not matching Scripture

Your commentary is not matching Scripture.

And yet you did not address it or even try to debunk it. You said nothing which means that either you are not willing to address it or you can‘t address it. Your opinion is not evidence. I know that Paul‘s teachings are hard for you because it actually destroys your argument. I also know that you are emphatic about promoting the law for the Christian but it simply won’t work. The scriptures are against your teachings.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sure and because the husband died she is free from the law. Do you not understand scripture? Are you that desperate to promote the law?

Thats right the husband died, not the law, why she was free to marry another and it wouldn't be adultry, the whole point of this passage. The law is holy just and good Rom7:12 and shows us what sin is Rom7:7 and continuing in sin there remains no more sacrifice Heb10:26-30

Are you saying we can commit adultery, covet, worship other gods and vain God's holy name? This is what you believe Paul is teaching, to dishonor God Rom 2:21-23, stay in sins Rom7:7 be an enmity to God Rom8:7-8 and left outside the gates of heaven Mat7:23 Rev22:15 1John2:4

And yet you did not address it or even try to debunk it. You said nothing which means that either you are not willing to address it or you can‘t address it. I know that Paul‘s teaching are hard for you because it actually destroys your argument. I also know that you are emphatic about promoting the law for the Christian but it simply won’t work. The scriptures are against your teachings.

You;re free to tell yourself this. Yes, there is a point God tells us to put away the pearls.. After so many Scriptures are ignored and replied with opinions and out of context verses, not much one can do. Jesus tells us to move on Mat15:3-14 God knows nothing we can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14 and He never taught lawlessness and to be sinners. He taught though Him to forsake our sins Pro28:13 which means turn from sin and keep His commandments through our love and the power of the Holy Spirit of Truth John14:15-18 What's being taught here is coming from another, not He Isa8:20 Rev14:12 Rev 22::14

 

[Hentenza]

Thats right the husband died, not the law. The law is holy just and good Rom7:12 and shows us what sin is Rom7:7 and continuing in sin there remains no more sacrifice Heb10:26-30

Here what comes after.

“Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were brought to light by the Law, were at work in the parts of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:4-6 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that

bible.com

Do you not see that the Christian is released from the law? Its right there no interpretation necessary. I challenge you to debunk this scripture.

Are you saying we can commit adultery, covet, worship other gods and vain God's holy name? This is what you believe Paul is teaching, to dishonor God Rom 2:21-23, be an enmity to God Rom8:7-8 and left outside the f=gates of heaven Mat7:23 Rev22:15 1John2:4

You did not address my post at all so you screaming over me won’t work. I will challenge you to actually try to debunk my post. Address each one of my scriptures and my comments that I took the time to address your previous post.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here what comes after.

“Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were brought to light by the Law, were at work in the parts of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:4-6 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that

bible.com

Are you really serious? Why was she released from the law, because her husband died and it wouldn't be adultery. Because keeping God's commandments is what matters 1Cor7:19

Do you not see that the Christian is released from the law?

Yet Jesus says depart from Me, ye those who practice lawlessness. (without law) Mat7:23

Is this what Paul is teaching to lead people to their destruction or is this type of teaching the exact warning we were given 2Peter3:16

I would show the context, but I know it wouldn't make a difference. You do not want to keep God's laws, that's fine, that's your choice. Paul speaks of this Rom8:7-8 I am going to stick with what Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John14:15 I love Jesus.

There a millions posts out there on lawlessness.

PLEASE LETS GET BACK TO THE OP.

 

[Hentenza]

Are you really serious? Why was she released from the law, because her husband died and it wouldn't be adultery. Because keeping God's commandments is what matters 1Cor7:19

Again, the scripture is simple. You are not addressing it. Here it is again.

“But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App No

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

bible.com

I know you know how to read do what does the scripture say? Do you deny scripture?

Yet Jesus says depart from Me, ye those who practice lawlessness. (without law) Mat7:23

Yes talking about false prophets.

““Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 7:15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

bible.com

You need to read verses in context.

Is this what Paul is teaching to lead people to their destruction 2Peter3:16

Yes, Paul does destroy your argument. You keep posting this verse to draw away from Paul’s argument but the reality is that you quote this verse because you can’t debunk Paul’s argument. As I stated before Paul’s teachings are hard for you because his teachings destroys your arguments. The Christians are not under the law.

I would show the context, but I know it wouldn't make a difference. You do not want to keep God's laws, that's fine, that's your choice. I am going to stick with what jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John14:15 I love Jesus.

 

[Delvianna]

No, Jesus is saying it's more righteous to not even get angry because someone messed up dinner, than murdering them because they messed up dinner.

Jesus didn't say this, you did.

I'm not sure why you came to the conclusion you arrived at.

Because you said, "God's righteousness is not subject to the law," which doesn't make any sense when righteousness is literally following the law. That's the definition.

There is no law against GOD"S LOVE. Those who walk in His Love do not need the law to be righteous

You're conflating two concepts, the fruit of the spirit which grows with love, and the requirement by God that says we are supposed to act righteously which is following his moral law. Again, righteousness is following the law.

Definition: RIGHTEOUS, a. ri'chus.

1. Just; accordant to the divine law. Applied to persons, it denotes one who is holy in heart, and observant of the divine commands in practice; as a righteous man. Applied to things, it denotes consonant to the divine will or to justice; as a righteous act. It is used chiefly in theology, and applied to God, to his testimonies and to his saints.

The righteous, in Scripture, denote the servants of God, the saints.

2. Just; equitable; merited.

I can tell from your posts that you are misconstruing what I mean. As I said, I don't think the devil wants us to communicate.

I literally keep asking what you mean because you don't explain yourself very well and based off of what you say, is how I respond.

You've misconstrued what I say. All of scripture testifies to the righteousness that came apart from the law, including the law.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

You literally just highlighted my point in bold "being witnessed by the law". Put the concept of that verse together. You're singling out 1 part of the verse by pointing to the word righteousness and highlighting "without the law" while you aren't understanding the point of the verse and then ignoring other parts of scripture. You can't single out verses like this because there are points and concepts that group verses together to get the big picture which include these verses:

James 2:21-24 "Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected... You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

James 2:26 "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

Matthew 25:31-46 (Parable of the Sheep and Goats) “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you... for I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat...’”

Romans 2:6-7 "Who will repay each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life."

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Since this thread took a turn from the OP, I will address something here thats keeps being repeated, What does under the law or being released from the law mean.

Paul speaks of this and actually explains it.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [a]guilty before God.

Under the laws means being guilty before God or under the penalty of the law, It does not mean one doesn't need to keep the law and disobey Jesus and His teachings. Mat5:19 Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Mat19:17-19 Mat5:19-30 etc

It does not mean we can sin and break God's law 1John3:4 James2:11

Rom6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Paul makes this point clearly....


Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


So does Paul mean under the law is not keeping the law?

Of course not...... he goes on to say if we do these things that are against the Spirit- BREAKING GOD"S LAW one will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [d]adultery, [e]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

It’s what he is speaking about in several chapters like Romans 7 and 8. The battle of the flesh against obeying the law of God and walking in the Spirit where there is no condemnation. To make the claim that walking in the Spirit means to be disobeying God's law is not a teaching from the Scriptures Isa8:20 Rom 8:1-8 Its basically pitting God’s laws against God’s Spirit, when God’s Spirit is the one who wrote God’s laws and enables us to keep them through our love and faith.

These are all conditional promises

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Acts 5:32 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.


Compared to those who do not keep

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev 22:15 [a]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


It’s not God that doesn't want us to keep His commandments through love and faith and stay in our sins. He wants to free us from our sins, but not everyone wants to come to the light/truth Jesus because they love their sins more than they love Jesus to set us free John 3:19-21 John8:32

 

[Delvianna]

Since this thread took a turn from the OP, I will address something here thats keeps being repeated, What does under the law or being released from the law mean.

Paul speak of this and actually explains it.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [a]guilty before God.

Under the laws means being guilty before God or under the penalty of the law, It does not mean one doesn't need to keep the law and disobey Jesus and His teachings. Mat5:19 Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Mat19:17-19 Mat5:19-30 etc

It does not mean we can sin and break God's law 1John3:4 James2:11

Rom6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Paul makes this point clearly....


Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


So does Paul mean under the law is not keeping the law?

Of course not...... he goes on to say if we do these things that are against the Spirit- BREAKING GOD"S LAW one will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [d]adultery, [e]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

It’s what he is speaking about in several chapters like Romans 7 and 8. The battle of the flesh against obeying the law of God and walking in the Spirit where there is no condemnation. To make the claim that walking in the Spirit means to be disobeying God's law is not a teaching from the Scriptures Isa8:20 Its basically pitting God’s laws against God’s Sprit, when God’s Spirit is the one who wrote God’s laws and enables us to keep them through our love and faith.

These are all conditional promises

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Acts 5:32 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.


Compared to those who do not keep

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev 22:15 [a]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


It’s not God that doesn't want us to keep His commandments through love and faith and stay in our sins. He wants to free us from our sins, but not everyone wants to come to the light/truth Jesus because they love their sins more than they love Jesus to set us free John 3:19-21 John8:32

You said it better than I did, great job!

To make the last point I was trying to make, all scripture weaves together and forms the same points without any contradictions. If you read a verse and interpret it one way, but there is another verse somewhere else that negates your interpretation, you have to toss out that interpretation.

To sum up: The law isn't done away with, God took the penalty for us breaking it but that doesn't mean we keep on breaking it. He expects us to still follow it to the best of our ability because we are supposed to be as Christ like as we can be, as well as growing in fruits of the spirit. How many times does God say repent, even in the new testament? If being saved means you can keep on sinning, then there is zero point in Jesus telling others to repent, or the latest book that was written, Revelation, mentioning repentance either. It even mentions people during the tribulation period don't repent (Revelation 9:21). If it doesn't matter, why mention it? Walking righteousness (following the moral law) alone doesn't save us, we are saved by Christ alone, but true faith in Christ has proof by righteous actions and spiritual fruit growth. It is evidence of salvation, not the requirement. This concept is the culmination of Romans, 1 John, 2 Peter, James another places and not just tied to a few verses.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You said it better than I did, great job!

To make the last point I was trying to make, all scripture weaves together and forms the same points without any contradictions. If you read a verse and interpret it one way, but there is another verse somewhere else that negates your interpretation, you have to toss out that interpretation.

To sum up: The law isn't done away with, God took the penalty for us breaking it but that doesn't mean we keep on breaking it. He expects us to still follow it to the best of our ability because we are supposed to be as Christ like as we can be, as well as growing in fruits of the spirit. How many times does God say repent, even in the new testament? If being saved means you can keep on sinning, then there is zero point in Jesus telling others to repent, or the latest book that was written, Revelation, mentioning repentance either. It even mentions people during the tribulation period don't repent (Revelation 9:21). If it doesn't matter, why mention it? Walking righteousness (following the moral law) alone doesn't save us, we are saved by Christ alone, but true faith in Christ has proof by righteous actions and spiritual fruit growth. It is evidence of salvation, not the requirement. This concept is the culmination of Romans, 1 John, 2 Peter, James another places and not just tied to a few verses.

If Jesus came to release us from the law so we can keep on sinning, there would have been no need for His great Sacrifice. The fact He had to die for our sins is proof the law is not done away with. It’s really common sense- why would someone in Christ want to break any of God’s commandments that show us how to love and have a relationship with Him and how to love our neighbor Rom 13:9

Psa 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, [e]converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that isin the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I agree Scripture is all connected in my opinion, if one has a hard time understanding- let Jesus be the one to listen to John 14:6- we can’t go wrong following Jesus as our example 1 Peter 2:21-22 1 John 2:6 and having the faith of Jesus which is revelaed through His life and teachings Rev 14:12

God bless!

 

[childeye 2]

Jesus didn't say this, you did.

I'm simply using your analogy about messing up dinner to apply what Jesus said.

Here is what Jesus said:

Romans 5
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Because you said, "God's righteousness is not subject to the law," which doesn't make any sense when righteousness is literally following the law. That's the definition.

I was hoping you might understand this if we could at least agree that God Who formed all things IS NOT A THIEF. <-- Hence, He is not subject to, or under the law. I would consider it an insult to the HOLY IMAGE OF GOD to tell God "THOU shalt not steal" because it implies that it's possible He could be a thief.

​

subject​

1 of 3

noun​

sub·ject ˈsəb-jikt
-(ˌ)jekt

1
: one that is placed under authority or control: such as
a
: vassal
b(1)
: one subject to a monarch and governed by the monarch's law
(2)
: one who lives in the territory of, enjoys the protection of, and owes allegiance to a sovereign power or state


God is not 'subject' (defined above) to the ten commandments because He is not a sinner. He cannot take His name in vain, He cannot put any gods before Him. I'm saying that God's righteousness is not dictated to HIM by the law. I'm saying GOD's Righteousness exists apart from the letter of the law because He is the Spirit of Love that is the goodness in mankind that keeps the law. And I'm even saying that God's righteousness is greater than the letter of the Law because His Love lays down His life for sinners.


5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

You're conflating two concepts, the fruit of the spirit which grows with love, and the requirement by God that says we are supposed to act righteously which is following his moral law. Again, righteousness is following the law.

I don't see my interpretation of scripture as conflating two concepts. I think the scriptures are indicating that if you walk after the Spirit instead of the flesh, you won't sin.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Definition: RIGHTEOUS, a. ri'chus.

1. Just; accordant to the divine law. Applied to persons, it denotes one who is holy in heart, and observant of the divine commands in practice; as a righteous man. Applied to things, it denotes consonant to the divine will or to justice; as a righteous act. It is used chiefly in theology, and applied to God, to his testimonies and to his saints.

The righteous, in Scripture, denote the servants of God, the saints.

2. Just; equitable; merited.

This above reminds me of this--> Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

The above scriptures match exactly what I testify to. When I say righteousness, I'm testifying to a Spirit that loves others as oneself dwelling within me. And I'm saying that this Spirit of righteousness was attained by grace through faith apart from the law, which means I didn't attain the Spirit by following the law.

I literally keep asking what you mean because you don't explain yourself very well and based off of what you say, is how I respond.

You literally just highlighted my point in bold "being witnessed by the law".

Is that your point? I have no problem with that point so long as it includes both the law and the prophets.

Put the concept of that verse together. You're singling out 1 part of the verse by pointing to the word righteousness and highlighting "without the law" while you aren't understanding the point of the verse and then ignoring other parts of scripture. You can't single out verses like this because there are points and concepts that group verses together to get the big picture which include these verses:

I don't know why you would think I'm singling out one part of the verse. I can't even make my point that the righteousness that comes by grace through faith comes apart from the letter of the law, if the righteousness in letter doesn't exist to witness to it.

It's the same as saying God will write the law on one's heart and cause us to walk in His Way. It's the same as saying, God has given us His wonderful law but as yet has not given these people a heart to keep it. The Holy Spirit is teaching me that I can't keep the law with my flesh, I have to have God's Spirit of Truth dwelling in my heart to be set free from the slavery of sin.

James 2:21-24 "Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected... You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Well, there's a difference between what Paul means by works of the law and what James means by works of faith. I view those as two different meanings of works (arguing semantics). James is referring to the works that happen as a product of faith in The Christ, NOT the works of the law like don't steal, don't murder, don't lie, don't commit adultery, etc...

James 2:26 "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

True that.

Matthew 25:31-46 (Parable of the Sheep and Goats) “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you... for I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat...’”

Great scripture. Great clarity. This to me the emphasis in bold is the same as saying "you loved me as yourself".

Romans 2:6-7 "Who will repay each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life."

I don't particularly like to think I am trying to seek glory, honor, or immortality. I just want to be thankful to God for the loving goodness that cares enough about others to do the right thing.

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews 4:7-10

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

I believe we cease from trying to make ourselves righteous through the works of the letter of the law (ten commandments) even as we come to believe/understand that it is God's Spirit Who sanctifies us. --> It's my testimony that The Holy Spirit uses Love God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself, to convict me of sin.

You are quoting the Law in the old covenant.

Deut 6:5 Love God with all your heart
Lev 19:18 Love your neighbor as yourself.

It is the basis/foundation for all the Law of God according to Christ in Matt 22.

IT is the foundation for Ex 20, things like "honor your father and mother".

Notice what Paul says about it in Eph 6:1-2

 

[childeye 2]

You are quoting the Law in the old covenant.

Deut 6:5 Love God with all your heart
Lev 19:18 Love your neighbor as yourself.

Yes, I am. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

It is the basis/foundation for all the Law of God according to Christ in Matt 22.

Jesus even said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets".

IT is the foundation for Ex 20, things like "honor your father and mother".

Notice what Paul says about it in Eph 6:1-2

My testimony is that the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin using the two great commandments. In the Spirit of brotherly Love for others, He shows me if I do anything to others that I would not want done to me and He also causes me to do things to others that I would want done to me. He also causes me to Love God and worship Him in Truth by being truly thankful for His Spirit, revealing through correction where I would have gone wrong if not for His guidance.

 

[childeye 2]

Since this thread took a turn from the OP, I will address something here thats keeps being repeated, What does under the law or being released from the law mean.

Paul speaks of this and actually explains it.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [a]guilty before God.

Under the laws means being guilty before God or under the penalty of the law, It does not mean one doesn't need to keep the law and disobey Jesus and His teachings.

This is how I interpret his words:
When Paul says, "under the law" he is qualifying it as those whom the law is speaking to. Every one of the ten commandments has someone in mind. Thou shalt not murder is talking to murderers. Thou shalt not steal is talking to those who steal, thou shalt not bear false witness is talking to those who bear false witness, etc... <--"Now we know"... means -->"this should go without saying"...

So, I have no idea why anyone in the world would ever think it could possibly imply to NOT keep the commandments. <-- This looks like a strawman argument to me. When Paul says, "that every mouth may be stopped", I think he means the purpose is to condemn all as guilty so that no one has the right to judge others.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

When Paul says, "under the law" he is qualifying it as those whom the law is speaking to. Every one of the ten commandments has someone in mind. Thou shalt not murder is talking to murderers. Thou shalt not steal is talking to those who steal, thou shalt not bear false witness is talking to those who bear false witness, etc...

I thought Paul was pretty clear what he meant shown in the post you're replying to,,..the law shows us our sins, so we know what is right and wrong just as Paul said Rom7:7 and so we are not depending our version of right and wrong doing over what God said Psa119:172 which His righteousness is everlasting Psa119:142. our version, is filthy rags Isa64:6

 

[childeye 2]

I thought Paul was pretty clear what he meant shown in the post you're replying to,,..the law shows us our sins, so we know what is right and wrong just as Paul said Rom7:7 and so we are not depending our version of right and wrong doing over what God said Psa119:172 which His righteousness is everlasting Psa119:142. our version, is filthy rags Isa64:6

I think he's conveying that God wants every mouth to stop accusing back and forth because it's hypocritical judgment. Any suggestion that he could possibly mean we should not keep them is not valid, but any confession that we can't keep them without God's Spirit is the truth.

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think he's conveying that God wants every mouth to stop accusing back and forth because it's hypocritical judgment.

I'm not getting that from what he said. He said the world would be guilty before God. Nothing about accusing others in the Text. We all have to stand before God based on what we do 2Cor5:10 Ecc12:13-14 the condemnation of the law is death Rom6:23 God gave us another choice, but not everyone wants to give up their sins. John 3:19-21 Pro28:13 Heb10:26-30 and turn and abide in Christ John 15:5-10 1John2:6 1John3:24

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [e]guilty before God

 

[childeye 2]

I'm not getting that from what he said. He said the world would be guilty before God. Nothing about accusing others in the Text.

He said, "...that every mouth may be stopped and the whole world become guilty...." <-- If all are guilty, people would stop thinking they're better than others, and subsequently they should stop judging hypocritically. <-- instead counseled by the Holy Spirit to show grace mercy and understanding.

Moreover, he even said, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith".

We all have to stand before God based on what we do 2Cor5:10 Ecc12:13-14

We agree on this.

the condemnation of the law is death Rom6:23 God gave us another choice, but not everyone wants to give up their sins. John 3:19-21

We've been here before. I spoke of the Pharisees as some of those loving darkness, the blind leading the blind, and the High priest plotting to murder Jesus the Christ. As I recall, I was accused of "accursing" you. <-- I don't hold any grudge about that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He said, "...that every mouth may be stopped and the whole world become guilty...." <-- If all are guilty, people would stop thinking they're better than others.

It doesn't say this. Its about being guilty before God.

He also said, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith".

This is the next verse
Rom 3: 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Paul goes on to say we are justified by faith. We can't take credit for what God does if we allow Him to, why we can't boast.

We agree on this.

We've been here before. I spoke of the Pharisees as some of those loving darkness, the blind leading the blind and the High priest plotting to murder Jesus the Christ and as I recall, I was accused of "accursing" you. <-- I don't hold any grudge about that.

We can be like Pharisees too when we follow their path over what Jesus taught and lived.

 

[childeye 2]

It doesn't say this. Its about being guilty before God.

I know we all become guilty before God. I'm talking about "that every Mouth be shut"

Context:
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Summation --> There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: (1) that every mouth may be stopped, and (2) all the world may become guilty before God.

childeye 2 said:
I think he's conveying that God wants every mouth to stop accusing back and forth because it's hypocritical judgment.

Further evidence that all mouths should be stopped speaking hypocritical judgment---> because none are righteous, no, not one: He also said, -> "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith".

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Context:


11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.


Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: (1) that every mouth may be stopped, and (2) all the world may become guilty before God.

childeye 2 said:
I think he's conveying that God wants every mouth to stop accusing back and forth because it's hypocritical judgment.

Still doesn't say we are guilty before God based on judging others. Paul is quoting OT its about no one being righteous. This passage is not about judging others and that makes us guilty before God. We each have to stand before God based on what we do, not what others do. Paul talks about not judging others, but that's not what this passage is about.


Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [e]guilty before God.

Its say nothing about because we are judging others, best not to add what's not there. It goes on to say...

20 Therefore (conclusion)by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
We have all sinned and are guilty before God. This is the condemnation of the law or being under the law guilty before God.

The LAW shows us our sins and the whole world has to be accountable to God on what we do, the condemnation of the law is death Rom6:23. We are judged based on God's law as it in what sin is. His version, not mans version.

Paul than goes on to say, the only way we are justified is through faith.

Faith however does not void the law as sadly many teach Rom3:31

I am ok agreeing to disagree. But we are told God's standard of judgement in many other places- Mat5:19-30 Ecc12:13-14 James2:11-12 Rev22:14-15 Rev11:18-19 etc Paul is not saying anything different

I am ok agreeing to disagree