Democrats shut down government

[friend of]

Actually as a Christian I want everyone in the world to have the finest health care possible

You know what? You're right and i agree. I just don't think US taxpayers should be funding violent illegal criminals in any way shape or form. And that's what ends up happening when you give welfare and health coverage to everyone who enters the states illegally. Which is what the democrats want to do. Which im against. Take care of your citizenry first. No American child should be going hungry while billions of dollars are being spend housing and caring for illegal criminals.

 

[Vambram]

No it doesn't. The is a difference between undocumented immigrants and illegal immigrants.

There is no difference between undocumented immigrants and illegal immigrants. Both are still illegal.

 

[Richard T]

It is one thing for a Christian to use their money for charity. It's quite another for a Christian to use someone else's money for the same purpose. IF you want to form a charity for that purpose, that would be a noble cause.

Governments are notorious for using other's money for all sorts of causes. You know like offering subsidies to corporations, famers, small businesses, funding tax credits to the working poor, promoting redistribution through social security, the list is endless. If you were to object to all, you would be principled. Otherwise the prudent person would have to choose their priorities. Emergency care for illegals would be high on my list. Could be a child that was brought over to the USA, could be a hard-working illegal that already was being taken advantage of by an employer. Could even be a criminal who got shot while robbing a bank. Human decency demands they are treated. I also have no problem of a working legal non-citizen resident getting Obamacare subsidies. Welfare and in most states and medicaid is already not available for them for the first five years, so that seems reasonable but not a life or death priority. One sacred cow i would look at is how capital gains are taxed lower than income. The priority to me would be to make that more equal and raise more revenue. Warren Buffet himslef said that his taxes as a percent were far less than his secretaries. But I respect other's priorities. I look at lots of policies though, like as Christian to me it is immoral to use corn ethanol, and subsidies for that are equally immoral. Why? because it raises the price of food worldwide and starves out some in developing nations.

Ethanol policy threatens to starve the world

Drought. War. Poverty. These are leading causes of hunger, according to the United Nations. Soon we may add another. Ethanol. Across the globe, people are discovering it's a new contributor to world hunger. Led by the United States, governments are paying companies billions to make ethanol from...

www.heritage.org

I would not be against subsides for farmers when prices are low like today but if those subsides went to ethanol, then yes back to immoral.

I also think it is poor policy to give extra tax breaks to certain occupations or industries. Trump did this with tips, with seniors, and a whole host of industries. The esxcepton is I do think subsidies are good for critical industries to help U.S. security.

My point is that Christians (myself included) need to understand issues far better and demand better. Trump's priorities are tilted to the rich from how I see it. Shfiting the tax burden from income taxes to tariffs are a good example. I thnk too that more government can be cut. I just wish did not target cuts on democratic agencies as he calls it. That frames it as political cuts rather than economic cuts. But he does that to further anger the democrats.

 

[BPPLEE]

No it doesn't. The is a difference between undocumented immigrants and illegal immigrants.

This is the first time I have heard this. What is the difference?

 

[Richard T]

You know what? You're right and i agree. I just don't think US taxpayers should be funding violent illegal criminals in any way shape or form. And that's what ends up happening when you give welfare and health coverage to everyone who enters the states illegally. Which is what the democrats want to do. Which im against. Take care of your citizenry first. No American child should be going hungry while billions of dollars are being spend housing and caring for illegal criminals.

Yes, I do agree with that. Energency care, not housing and welfare. Most illegals are cut off from most stuff, except in a few states that coddle them. I probably am OK with illegal's kids going to school though. But I am charitable that way and would let the school district's decide on that.
I would say that any illegal that shows up for medical care could get it and then be deported. However, many would end up trying to treat themselves at home, some might even die, so that presents an ethical dilemma.

 

[BPPLEE]

Yes, I do agree with that. Energency care, not housing and welfare. Most illegals are cut off from most stuff, except in a few states that coddle them. I probably am OK with illegal's kids going to school though. But I am charitable that way and would let the school district's decide on that.
I would say that any illegal that shows up for medical care could get it and then be deported. However, many would end up trying to treat themselves at home, some might even die, so that presents an ethical dilemma.

Illegal immigrants are treated in emergency rooms. EMTALA requires that anyone who presents at an emergency room gets a medical screening and stabilizing care.
Overview

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law passed in 1986 that requires Medicare-participating hospitals to provide emergency medical care to anyone, regardless of their ability to pay or insurance status. It mandates a medical screening exam for anyone presenting to the emergency department, stabilizing treatment for identified emergency conditions, or an appropriate transfer to another facility if the patient cannot be stabilized

 

[Richard T]

Illegal immigrants are treated in emergency rooms. EMTALA requires that anyone who presents at an emergency room gets a medical screening and stabilizing care.

Overview

View attachment 370982
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law passed in 1986 that requires Medicare-participating hospitals to provide emergency medical care to anyone, regardless of their ability to pay or insurance status. It mandates a medical screening exam for anyone presenting to the emergency department, stabilizing treatment for identified emergency conditions, or an appropriate transfer to another facility if the patient cannot be stabilized

Thanks for the legalities. Here is one statement from Vance: Source:Vance brings receipts to target Dems on healthcare benefits for illegal aliens

"The first Biden-era program provided illegal immigrants emergency healthcare at hospitals, the vice president said.

"We turned off that funding because, of course, we want American citizens to benefit from those hospital services, not to be taxed, and then to have those hospital services go to illegal aliens," Vance said."

So if the Federal Government does not fund, then the hospitals eat the bills or raise rates on everyone else. With the law in place just another unfunded mandate. In the end U.S. citizens pay one way or another. Vance should have given better examples of illegals getting non-emergency care. In general, they are shut off from that in most states. Obamacare though to legal visa holding immigrants is not. That is much of what Trump does not want to fund. But these legal immigrants people are working and obamacare subsidies are a tax credit.

 

[Yarddog]

There is no difference between undocumented immigrants and illegal immigrants. Both are still illegal.

One is a criminal offense and the other a civil offense.

 

[BPPLEE]

This will help explain the differences between criminal illegals and undocumented. Undocumented foreigners have not committed a crime, they have committed civil offenses thouhg like overtaying a visa.

Here is one statement from Vance: Source:Vance brings receipts to target Dems on healthcare benefits for illegal aliens

"The first Biden-era program provided illegal immigrants emergency healthcare at hospitals, the vice president said.

"We turned off that funding because, of course, we want American citizens to benefit from those hospital services, not to be taxed, and then to have those hospital services go to illegal aliens," Vance said."

So if the Federal Government does not fund, then the hospitals eat the bills or raise rates on everyone else. With the law in place just another unfunded mandate. In the end U.S. citizens pay one way or another. Vance should have given better examples of illegals getting non-emergency care. In general, they are shut off from that in most states. Obamacare though to legal visa holding immigrants is not. That is much of what Trump does not want to fund. But these legal immigrants people are working and obamacare subsidies are a tax credit.

Actually there is no difference.
AI Overview

The difference between "illegal immigrant" and "undocumented immigrant" is primarily one of connotation and perspective, with "undocumented" preferred by immigrant rights groups and some media for being less dehumanizing, while "illegal" is seen by proponents as a direct and concise description of violating immigration laws. Both terms describe a non-citizen without lawful status in the U.S., but "undocumented" is a more neutral descriptor.

Undocumented Immigrant

• Meaning: A person who lacks the required legal documents to reside in a country.
  
  
• • Usage: Favored by immigrant advocates and some in the media because it is seen as more respectful and focuses on the lack of paperwork rather than inherent criminality.
  • Context: This is the term many journalists and advocacy groups prefer to use, as it is seen as more accurate and less stigmatizing than "illegal".

Illegal Immigrant

• • Meaning: A person who is in a country in violation of civil or criminal law.
  • Usage: Often used by politicians and some media outlets to emphasize that an individual has broken immigration laws.
  • Controversy: Critics argue the term is inaccurate because being in a country without legal status is often a civil offense, not a criminal one, and that it promotes a harmful and dehumanizing view of people.

 

[BPPLEE]

One is a criminal offense and the other a civil offense.

• Improper Entry (8 U.S.C. § 1325):
  This is a criminal offense for those who enter the U.S. without proper inspection or at an unauthorized location.
  • A first offense can result in a fine or imprisonment for up to six months.
    
    
  • • Subsequent offenses can lead to more significant fines or imprisonment for up to two years.
• • Illegal Reentry (8 U.S.C. § 1326):
    This is a felony charge for anyone who reenters the United States after having been deported or removed.
    • • Penalties can include federal prison sentences, with potential time up to 20 years for repeat offenders.

Overstaying a Visa is a civil offense. So are you saying undocumented immigrants are only people who overstayed their visas?
Are you saying that these are the people who Democrats want to give healthcare to?

 

[Yarddog]

• Improper Entry (8 U.S.C. § 1325):
  This is a criminal offense for those who enter the U.S. without proper inspection or at an unauthorized location.
  • A first offense can result in a fine or imprisonment for up to six months.
    
    
  • • Subsequent offenses can lead to more significant fines or imprisonment for up to two years.
• • Illegal Reentry (8 U.S.C. § 1326):
    This is a felony charge for anyone who reenters the United States after having been deported or removed.
    • • Penalties can include federal prison sentences, with potential time up to 20 years for repeat offenders.

Overstaying a Visa is a civil offense. So are you saying undocumented immigrants are only people who overstayed their visas?
Are you saying that these are the people who Democrats want to give healthcare ?

The question asked in post #9 was about undocumented immigrants and not illegal immigrants which Democrats haven't said that they want illegal immigrants to receive what Republicans have said. They are lying.

 

[BPPLEE]

The question asked in post #9 was about undocumented immigrants and not illegal immigrants which Democrats haven't said that they want illegal immigrants to receive what Republicans have said. They are lying.

Okay then define undocumented immigrants so we know who Democrats want to give healthcare to.
As it is, you’re saying they want to give healthcare to people who overstay their visas but not to people who enter the country illegally.
I don’t think that’s their position at all

 

[Richard T]

One is a criminal offense and the other a civil offense.

Undocumented is interestingly wrong in many cases. Because if you have a driver's license or other USA id, then you are documented technically. many like the term unauthorized. i

The question asked in post #9 was about undocumented immigrants and not illegal immigrants which Democrats haven't said that they want illegal immigrants to receive what Republicans have said. They are lying.

Here is a good source on that. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/30/politics/fact-check-trump-free-health-care-immigration

 

[Yarddog]

Okay then define undocumented immigrants

Words Matter: Illegal Immigrant, Undocumented Immigrant, or Unauthorized Immigrant?

The labels we use to refer to different classes of individuals are not merely neutral descriptors but often implicitly come with various associations or value judgments, which can, in turn, frame and influence political debates.

www.scu.edu

so we know who Democrats want to give healthcare to.

Democrats want to ensure Americans can keep their health care. The part post #9 was talking about was a Democratic debate from 2019, which has nothing to do with the fact shutdown.

MSN

As it is, you’re saying they want to give healthcare to people who overstay their visas but not to people who enter the country illegally.

I didn't say that. I was responding to someone that said I was wrong about Democrats not wanting to give health care to illegal immigrants.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Government Shutdowns Q&A: Everything You Should Know | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

Fiscal Year (FY) 2025 will end on September 30, and Congress has so far enacted zero of the 12 full-year appropriations bills to fund the government for FY 2026.

www.crfb.org

Congress (Our House/Senate that votes on laws and stuff) is still expected to show up for work but a lot of federal workers stop work (National Parks, Health and Human Services, Department of Education, IRS, as examples).

We are at the end of a fiscal year. Congress is in charge of deciding how money will be spent in the next fiscal year. Congress has not been able to agree on a budget bill (or collection of bills) for the upcoming year. Spending cannot proceed until Congress passes a funding bill.

Republicans in Congress currently have a majority in both houses, but it's a slim majority. In divided times like this, Republicans in the Senate need 60 votes to get a bill passed. They don't yet have 60 votes; they'll need to persuade some Democrats to vote with them. At the moment, neither side is willing to compromise enough to get a bill passed.

Here's one summary: Why did the government shut down? Here's what's behind the funding lapse

Good question

Great answer

That sounds more realistic

Another informative answer

Thank you. That was informative.

I guess the dems should get more votes next time for defunding the police.

I hope this gets resolved soon.

 

[BPPLEE]

Words Matter: Illegal Immigrant, Undocumented Immigrant, or Unauthorized Immigrant?

The labels we use to refer to different classes of individuals are not merely neutral descriptors but often implicitly come with various associations or value judgments, which can, in turn, frame and influence political debates.

www.scu.edu

Democrats want to ensure Americans can keep their health care. The part post #9 was talking about was a Democratic debate from 2019, which has nothing to do with the fact shutdown.

MSN

I didn't say that. I was responding to someone that said I was wrong about Democrats not wanting to give health care to illegal immigrants.

Did you read the article you posted?
”If “illegal immigrant” is imprecise and racially problematic, what term should be used instead? Pro-immigrant liberals often prefer the term “undocumented immigrant.” The nonprofit Define American, in its criticism of phrases such as “illegal immigrant” and “illegal alien,” recommends “undocumented American.”

Both illegal and undocumented are referring to the same group of people, one is not politically correct.
You said one is criminal and one is civil (Post # 28) Do you stand by that because that’s not what the article you posted says ?

 

[Yarddog]

Did you read the article you posted?
”If “illegal immigrant” is imprecise and racially problematic, what term should be used instead? Pro-immigrant liberals often prefer the term “undocumented immigrant.” The nonprofit Define American, in its criticism of phrases such as “illegal immigrant” and “illegal alien,” recommends “undocumented American.”

Both illegal and undocumented are referring to the same group of people, one is not politically correct.
You said one is criminal and one is civil. Do you stand by that because that’s not what the article you posted says ?

From the article:
For instance, living in the U.S. without authorization, such as overstaying a visa but entering the country legally, is a civil but not a criminal offense.

The video in question, from post #9, was asking Democrat candidates a question which asked about "Undocumented immigrants". Therefore, one needs to use the term as Democrats used it, at the time, to gat the correct response which they meant, and not what conservatives mean

 

[BPPLEE]

From the article:
For instance, living in the U.S. without authorization, such as overstaying a visa but entering the country legally, is a civil but not a criminal offense.

The video in question, from post #9, was asking Democrat candidates a question which asked about "Undocumented immigrants". Therefore, one needs to use the term as Democrats used it, at the time, to gat the correct response which they meant, and not what conservatives mean

So Democrats in that debate were saying that they want to give healthcare to people that have overstayed their visas but not to people who entered the country illegally, is that your argument? Because this is something that I have never heard any politician say