Difficulties with finding a church

[dms1972]

I'm not sure if I am going to ever settle in a church. I think I prefer to just attend now and again. I attended one a good few years ago. Got baptised (again) I wasn't sure if I needed to, as I had been christened as an infant, became a member, but that fellowship seemed in-turned to me. They were debating and drawing up and discussing five year vision documents. How much the church needed to grow, how many people they wanted to be taking part in house groups, which to me was a kind of nuisance thing were people met in others members houses mid-week (for no good reason - such as lack of church building to meet in, or need to avoid persecution and move around) - it was at times of somewhat dubious spiritual value, partly because I didn't always wish to go to it. They emphasised the sense of togetherness. Fortunately the church also had a mid week church based prayer and bible study and I went to that occasionally instead (which i think is a much better type of mid week service than a house group)

I went to this church because I couldn't pass the muster in the fundamentalist (some of them called themselves evangelical and attempted to down play their fundamentalist leanings) churches which emphasied certain beliefs (pious opinions?) about the Bible that I don't hold in the manner they do - such as Inerrancy - I pretty much do accept inerrancy but not in dogmatic form some of these churches teach it. Note that the JWs also hold to inerrancy but are astray from christian orthodoxy, so clearly something more is needed.

Eventually the Pastor moved to another flock, and that church had no permanent Pastor for three years. Others pastors from the denomination visited, and in the meantime elders and deacons led the services, but I'd stopped going by then.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I think an error many churches make is trying to give people what they (leadership) thinks would be good for people to have rather than meeting people where they are and serving what they actually want or need, sort of trying to fit square pegs into round holes -- the small home group as an example. That said, I think a search for the right church for you is worth it. I suggest taking some time to visit a bunch. Even have a look at traditions different than your prior experience. When you know, you'll know. Leastwise, that was my experience when there when one day I wandered into that one place I kept getting drawn back to over and over. Know what you value in a church and know what things you can't abide. That place is out there, it just takes some searching sometimes to find it.

 

[BobRyan]

Ezek 18 says each person is accountable for themselves when it comes to going to heaven or hell. We cannot point to someone else in the Rev 20 day of judgment as if some other person would be cast into the lake of fire instead of ourselves if we simply find fault with others.

At the same time I do agree with the theme of finding the most Bible approved group as you possibly can find.

And I agree that if you can't trust God's Word as the map/guide to the narrow path in Matt 7, then "to each his own" is the rule and "just be sure you feel good while sliding down the slippery slope" is the best one can do.

 

[dms1972]

I visited many churches years ago. One problem was I went to one in particular and to some extent some of the deacons there they helped me with an area of my life were I was sinning, yet after being helped I'd drift again, I didn't feel like I wanted to be part of that church somehow, and I am not sure why. Some churches are voluntary sect-type, practice adult baptism, or are fundamentalist or cessationist and that wasn't my background. So while being helped a bit I felt still some reluctance to keep going there and I drifted again.

As far as "Bible approved" those that think they are tend to be fundamentalist and sometimes separationist - sometimes these can be hard and lacking in warm fellowship, proscribing various activities, or judging one slack or worldly for listening to some secular music etc. I actually searched high and low though at one time for a fundamentalist who was a super-naturalist. You'd think they all would be, but they are not.

 

[dms1972]

I think an error many churches make is trying to give people what they (leadership) thinks would be good for people to have rather than meeting people where they are and serving what they actually want or need, sort of trying to fit square pegs into round holes -- the small home group as an example. That said, I think a search for the right church for you is worth it. I suggest taking some time to visit a bunch. Even have a look at traditions different than your prior experience. When you know, you'll know. Leastwise, that was my experience when there when one day I wandered into that one place I kept getting drawn back to over and over. Know what you value in a church and know what things you can't abide. That place is out there, it just takes some searching sometimes to find it.

Some like the house-groups. Personally I don't. I prefer a mid-week church bible study or series. These can be small enough and should be friendly enough for new-comers to get to know a few others. There is too much "social" in some churches. The one I went to would have cup of tea after evening service or the band would start to practice. How can individual ministry to those who need it take place while people are standing around chit-chatting or the band is practicing?

 

[bèlla]

We had a similar problem as well but I wouldn’t say it’s the fault of the church per se. The settings were warm and engaging and the teachings weren’t off course. The churches were nice but weren’t enough for what we’re seeking at this juncture. I realized we’d have to build our own and foster the connections we lacked.

What one person requires for spiritual fulfillment will differ from the next and that’s okay. Churches come in many flavors and the majority find what they need to some degree. But when that isn’t so you may have to think outside the box and that’s the gray in all of this. How do you address instruction and fellowship outside of that setting? Worship and study isn’t hard to do alone but what about support? There’s a lot of people on the site who don’t have a home church and loneliness is a common complaint. Maybe you can work together?

I think it’s best if you know what you want and note what matters. Defining your musts and maybes can make the search easier.

~bella

 

[dms1972]

Half my experiences with churches I cannot remember. I was searching both spiritually, intellectually and for an actual place to belong, while not being in the best mental health (still struggle a lot with my mental health)

At that earlier time in my life I would have given up almost anything and in fact I remember I asked for help at a church, and an elder standing beside me, who may have been praying for me, I don't know, and a struggle going on in my soul and I relinquished some stuff - I mean stuff like secular music groups I loved and what not. But I looked around after and there was hardly anyone at that service. I don't know if that was just a one off and it probably possible other services were better attended, but I just felt - no I don't think this place is for me. I was also somewhat afraid of what might be expected of me there.

On another occasion I had been continuing my searching just through prayer and Bible study and maybe some christian books, and I was attending another church, I felt I had been given a word of knowledge for someone there, and I was quite in trepidation of delivering it. But I did, and I pretty much then left in a hurry. I thought I heard someone say I got the word right. But I still wasn't sure in myself. Years earlier an interest in the Gifts of the Spirit had been awakened in me during a church service, I asked about what they were, but the person I spoke to wasn't sure how they operated. They seemed to be in similiar position as me, interested, but not sure how to move in the Gifts. I had read a bit of Agnes Sanford's book : Healing Gifts of the Spirit. But wasn't sure if I was mature enough in my teens when I was reading that.

On yet another occasion, I was attending a church in the denomination I was christened in. I felt I wasn't being believed when I said had been christened in a church of this denomination - I felt they were making excuses and maybe didn't want me there. I eventually dug out with the help of my mum, three cradle roll cards, that my parents had been given by that church, and I presented them to them, and they had to acknowledge I had been christened and was a member, though of a different congregation in the denom.

So its been really difficult, and I haven't been to a service in a few years now, and I know i have drifted.

 

[dms1972]

We had a similar problem as well but I wouldn’t say it’s the fault of the church per se. The settings were warm and engaging and the teachings weren’t off course. The churches were nice but weren’t enough for what we’re seeking at this juncture. I realized we’d have to build our own and foster the connections we lacked.

What one person requires for spiritual fulfillment will differ from the next and that’s okay. Churches come in many flavors and the majority find what they need to some degree. But when that isn’t so you may have to think outside the box and that’s the gray in all of this. How do you address instruction and fellowship outside of that setting? Worship and study isn’t hard to do alone but what about support? There’s a lot of people on the site who don’t have a home church and loneliness is a common complaint. Maybe you can work together?

I think it’s best if you know what you want and note what matters. Defining your musts and maybes can make the search easier.

~bella

Basically I think what I am looking for would be a Christ-centred congregation. Moderately reformed, close to the centre evangelically. I don't want to join churches that are Zwinglian in theological orientation, or separationist, or restorationist.

The denom. I was christened in has over more recent years become somewhat authoritarian in its leadership. There have been questions surrounding accountability within it. Several issues with ministers or members in it that have made the local papers.

 

[Daniel Carlton]

I think an error many churches make is trying to give people what they (leadership) thinks would be good for people to have rather than meeting people where they are and serving what they actually want or need, sort of trying to fit square pegs into round holes -- the small home group as an example.

Not trying to be argumentative but I actually disagree with this part of your statement. I understand some impose their will but actually the main problem is that pastors try to cater to their congregation or denomination and abandon Biblical teaching.

That is the main purpose of the pastor - to teach people the will of God from the Holy scripture. Most pastors are trying to do what their congregation wants them to do and this is how scripture is devalued and ungodly gimmicks find their way into churches.

I have only been in one Biblical church in my life and that was when I was visiting some friends in Northern Ireland. The other churches u have been to are just apostates and sinful. And this one biblical church I mentioned did exactly what you think is a problem, give people what they need.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I think an error many churches make is trying to give people what they (leadership) thinks would be good for people to have rather than meeting people where they are and serving what they actually want or need, sort of trying to fit square pegs into round holes -- the small home group as an example.

Not trying to be argumentative but I actually disagree with this part of your statement. I understand some impose their will but actually the main problem is that pastors try to cater to their congregation or denomination and abandon Biblical teaching.

I don't think we have disagreement. I am not talking about subject matter of what is preached or taught. I agree that is the pastor's responsibility. I am talking about the structures some churches place around the conveyance of that--that the church expects you to be involved in this or that when really what nurtures you or what you need is something else. Or perhaps the thing that they want you to do makes you uncomfortable, and pushes you away not draws you nearer.

For example, I went to a church once where they thought everyone needed to be part of a small house cell that met regularly for fellowship grouped by zip code. Not my thing. I like fellowship with folks I like, who I find like-minded, and who I have chosen to be with, not just because they live in my zip code.

Or, I had a pastor once who, during his sermon, was fond of saying, "Turn to the person next to you and tell them..." It could be about anything...tell them about what really upset you in the last week, tell them about the last time you felt God speaking to you, etc. I found it cringe-worthy. I tend to be private and somewhat of an introvert. I am not pouring out my most intimate thoughts to some chap I don't know whose sole connection to me is our sliding into the same pew.

Or, once I was in a church where many parents were struggling with adolescents having challenges of living in today's world with its temptations. They approached pastors asking for a support group for parents and special programming for youth to help guide them. It was rejected as not being in their program plan for that year. I was actually one of those parents and the churches refusal was the final straw in my wife deciding she was done with the institutional church.

 

[dms1972]

Not trying to be argumentative but I actually disagree with this part of your statement. I understand some impose their will but actually the main problem is that pastors try to cater to their congregation or denomination and abandon Biblical teaching.

That is the main purpose of the pastor - to teach people the will of God from the Holy scripture. Most pastors are trying to do what their congregation wants them to do and this is how scripture is devalued and ungodly gimmicks find their way into churches.

I have only been in one Biblical church in my life and that was when I was visiting some friends in Northern Ireland. The other churches u have been to are just apostates and sinful. And this one biblical church I mentioned did exactly what you think is a problem, give people what they need.

I don't have a problem with Bible based churches, I have been to some free churches which are often more fundamentalist and I appreciate the reverence they have for Scripture. However some of the churches that claim to be Bible Believing are not.

Perhaps the Pastor and Elders are and some of the congregation and that is ok, but now in other churches, how can believers be in mutual submission with nominal christians, or those who are not christian? And what is my relationship with Deacons supposed to be?

I also don't interpret worldliness the same way some in the more fundamentalist churches do. For them its things like alcohol, dancing, playing cards...some are more extreme in their views than others. These things I know can for some (not all) lead to occasions for sin. But worldliness is more about worldly ambitions - what sometimes called "keeping up with the Jones" is one form of it. Also their christianity can sometimes be mixed with dubious political and economic views. And also you get some in these sorts of churches going to extremes in reaction to what they deem New Age - sometimes it is New Age (but that's an umbrella term) and they often reject other sincere christians.

 

[dms1972]

I see a few likes on some of other comments.

Can you tell me how your church if Bible believing deals with disagreements on the interpretation of Scripture, and how some theological orientations co-exist in a congregation? How do you relate to people who come to your church, or want to join that are not of your theological views, or pious opinions?

I have been pointed to verses of Scripture some times. And my reply is: Ok, I'll look that up when I get home and read the whole passage in context.

I would like to attend a church were if there are differing views that are within the compass of Christian Orthodoxy, the people there can co-exist!!! This is possible I hope?

I went to church some years ago, and had some needs for spiritual direction, and inner healing in my life. I started to feel like they had this view that some were needy people but they weren't. In the end I thought to myself is it just me or this church, I haven't felt this way in other churches anywhere near so much. Some peoples needs are more apparent, its true. But please allow for the fact that some people might be new, and regarless of how apparent their needs seem to be. Don't assume you have to "fix" them. It was like: listen to us, we're the have got it together ones - and you're a needy one. It feels like they just want to fix you. Just learn to accept people are not always in top form. And have a Gospel service! You'd think they believe Christians didn't need the Gospel - sorry but do you know what the Gospel is and how it applies to the believer?

When I went to one church a few times, I began to feel unsure it was the right one for me. I stopped attending regularly, but then I got worried, and I decided to go back, but I felt concerned how I would be received again. Some of these churches can feel so strict, that needs be one would think they were "drifting". So thats why I just want to find somewhere I can attend without all the pressure? If the church has some genuine spiritual life in it I'll probably want to go fairly often, but that doesn't necessarily mean every week for me.

On the other hand I have experienced help from godly and gracious people and it never made me feel like that - When? I grew up going to a City Mission Hall, I met other missionaries, I know how they approached me, how they talked, how I felt when with them. They were relaxed, yet alert, not driven, or activistic. They could talk to a child and listen with interest. I'd want to stand near them at times. So eventually at that church after a bit of prayer, I met a lady there who I thought might be spiritually sensitive and asked her if she would be able to listen a bit to what was going on with me, but another person there kind of scuppered it by tossing in a critical remark.

I have to try and discern now if I go to a church, what is going on there, is this congregation in damage limitation mode, or what is really going on? Do they give people space to grow?

Some churches over-spiritualise issues, and some simply lack wisdom and skills with people, and they sometimes then go on to claim its "spiritual warfare"!!

 

[dms1972]

Can I say a word to any fundamentalists and inerrantists that might be reading. Divine Inspiration is what is taught in the Bible. Its not a flat doctrine. Scripture isn't flat. I also believe revelation is progressive in Scripture. This doesn't entail process theology. Its from truth to more truth. More is revealed as we go through the Bible. But its the teaching that matters, not every phrase or sentence, for instance not everything Job's friends say is good counsel. Not everything the Psalmist says should be taken as an example to follow or pray, eg. in some of the imprecatory Psalms.

Belief in Inerrancy isn't necessary to become a christian, just belief in the Gospel. IMO its wrong to separate completely from other christians on the ground of whether or not they accept Biblical innerrancy, unless they otherwise are very astray. Don't end up a schismatic too.