Illegal Immigration

[eclipsenow]

It is not limited deportation of the worst. Many, as well have taken advantage of the self deport offer. If they do not take this offer their deportation when they find them will be much more difficult FOR THEM. There is clarity that it is not just limited to the worst.

Not from Trump's rhetoric! These people are all the worst of the worst, barely human, poisoning the blood, eating the dogs, rapists and drug dealers and murderers.

 

[mark46]

It is not limited deportation of the worst. Many, as well have taken advantage of the self deport offer. If they do not take this offer their deportation when they find them will be much more difficult FOR THEM. There is clarity that it is not just limited to the worst.

I don't know why folks would think that the majority of those detained would have criminal records. After all, even if all we deported only those with criminal records, there needs to be a place where they are detained while that status is checked.

That being said, Trump (and most voters) want to deport the vast majority of those who came in illegally under Biden whether they have criminal records or not.

Democrats should agree, well only if they want Democrats elected.

Those who have been here for many years and have worked for many years are a different situation entirely, Dreamers and others.

 

[ralliann]

I don't know why folks would think that the majority of those detained would have criminal records. After all, even if all we deported only those with criminal records, there needs to be a place where they are detained while that status is checked.

That being said, Trump (and most voters) want to deport the vast majority of those who came in illegally under Biden whether they have criminal records or not.

Democrats should agree, well only if they want Democrats elected.

Those who have been here for many years and have worked for many years are a different situation entirely, Dreamers and others.

Yep. They have had an app for self deportation, in a very nice way, from the start. And warn illegals about not taking advantage of it. But some want to pretend only the worst were to be deported. No, it is all illegals. The focus however have been on the worst criminals of course, and let self deportees, do so. And millions have done so. They do not need to GO AFTER many of these, they come to them.

 

[eclipsenow]

I don't know why folks would think that the majority of those detained would have criminal records. After all, even if all we deported only those with criminal records, there needs to be a place where they are detained while that status is checked.

That being said, Trump (and most voters) want to deport the vast majority of those who came in illegally under Biden whether they have criminal records or not.

Democrats should agree, well only if they want Democrats elected.

Those who have been here for many years and have worked for many years are a different situation entirely, Dreamers and others.

Or the Democrats should just tell the American people the truth.

Peer-reviewed social scientists have shown that these refugees are:-
* much more LAW ABIDING than American born citizens!

"Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes."
​

In other words, illegal immigrants do under 50% the violent crime and under 25% the theft of Americans!

* MORE willing to do the jobs no one else will - and end up contributing vastly MORE economic value than they might take in any welfare assistance programs!
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

 

[ralliann]

Or the Democrats should just tell the American people the truth.

Peer-reviewed social scientists have shown that these refugees are:-
* much more LAW ABIDING than American born citizens!

"Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes."​

​

In other words, illegal immigrants do under 50% the violent crime and under 25% the theft of Americans!

* MORE willing to do the jobs no one else will - and end up contributing vastly MORE economic value than they might take in any welfare assistance programs!
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

What has this to do with anything? Nothing!

 

[eclipsenow]

What has this to do with anything? Nothing!

Sorry - maybe it was my tone? I'm on the Democrats side on many things - and if I were American would vote Democrat.

I understand you were pointing out that because of the American electorate being so hypnotised by Trump's demagoguery that they want easy answers and easier targets! America's economic woes and inflation are not due to huge historic forces, economic development through the industrial phase into the modern services phase, and even the war in Ukraine and a 1 in 100 year pandemic and global energy crisis! No! It's all those Immigrants who are 'eating the dogs' and 'poisoning the blood'.

So I hear you! It's a tough time to be a Democrat.

But seriously - Trump complaining about immigrants is like complaining about a river of gold flowing into the USA.

And being a white man in Australia, I'm acutely aware that - just like in America - unless someone can trace their family line back 10,000 years we're ALL immigrants!

 

[rjs330]

In other words, illegal immigrants do under 50% the violent crime and under 25% the theft of Americans!

I dont think thats true. Becauae we dont actually keep track across America who is illegal and who is not when they are arrested. There are states who have laws against it. Also we know that many illegals wont report crime because they are illegal. I know that is used all the time, but it cannot be used as it is not good research.

Secondly, even IF it is true, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are STILL illegal and arw breaking the law by being here and should be deported. If not, then the immigration laws are meaningless.

 

[Pommer]

I dont think thats true. Becauae we dont actually keep track across America who is illegal and who is not when they are arrested. There are states who have laws against it. Also we know that many illegals wont report crime because they are illegal. I know that is used all the time, but it cannot be used as it is not good research.

Secondly, even IF it is true, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are STILL illegal and arw breaking the law by being here and should be deported. If not, then the immigration laws are meaningless.

By-and-large, the immigration laws are meaningless: if something has ceased to function correctly, you change it.
The last time we had serious immigration reform was nearly 40 years ago.
Certain sectors of our economy benefit from having migrant workers, make it simple, easy and cheap for them to be here.
There, problem solved.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I don't know why folks would think that the majority of those detained would have criminal records. After all, even if all we deported only those with criminal records, there needs to be a place where they are detained while that status is checked.

The claim when Trump took office was that he would prioritize the "worst of the worst" and get rapists, murderers, and other violent criminals out of the country. People with those sorts of convictions are in databases - they're on probation or sex offender registries, they have known addresses and associates that agents could investigate in order to determine their whereabouts, etc. The idea that the government needs to round everyone up and then check them out is silly, and I don't think anyone interpreted Trump's word like that.

 

[ralliann]

Sorry - maybe it was my tone? I'm on the Democrats side on many things - and if I were American would vote Democrat.

I understand you were pointing out that because of the American electorate being so hypnotised by Trump's demagoguery that they want easy answers and easier targets! America's economic woes and inflation are not due to huge historic forces, economic development through the industrial phase into the modern services phase, and even the war in Ukraine and a 1 in 100 year pandemic and global energy crisis! No! It's all those Immigrants who are 'eating the dogs' and 'poisoning the blood'.

So I hear you! It's a tough time to be a Democrat.

But seriously - Trump complaining about immigrants is like complaining about a river of gold flowing into the USA.

And being a white man in Australia, I'm acutely aware that - just like in America - unless someone can trace their family line back 10,000 years we're ALL immigrants!

Trump ran on applying the law, that democrats refused to. And he is finding and deporting people which came in here illegally. As per the people's desire.
Democrats are socialists and communists for the most part.

 

[BCP1928]

Or the Democrats should just tell the American people the truth.

Peer-reviewed social scientists have shown that these refugees are:-
* much more LAW ABIDING than American born citizens!

"Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes."​

​

In other words, illegal immigrants do under 50% the violent crime and under 25% the theft of Americans!

* MORE willing to do the jobs no one else will - and end up contributing vastly MORE economic value than they might take in any welfare assistance programs!
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

Yes, but they still have committed the most heinous crime imaginable: crossing the border without the right paperwork. Biden's crime was letting them believe they were here legally because they were seeking asylum. But they are evil criminals and they belong in detention camps to keep them from further contaminating the purity of our cultural institutions--and eating pets.

 

[NxNW]

Democrats are socialists and communists for the most part.

Not true.

 

[rjs330]

By-and-large, the immigration laws are meaningless: if something has ceased to function correctly, you change it.
The last time we had serious immigration reform was nearly 40 years ago.
Certain sectors of our economy benefit from having migrant workers, make it simple, easy and cheap for them to be here.
There, problem solved.

Until they are changed or ruled unconstitutional the law stands. The law says illegals will be deported. And it should be enforced.

Point fingers at Congress all you want on this issue, I support that. Both sides of congress have totally failed.

 

[rjs330]

The claim when Trump took office was that he would prioritize the "worst of the worst" and get rapists, murderers, and other violent criminals out of the country. People with those sorts of convictions are in databases - they're on probation or sex offender registries, they have known addresses and associates that agents could investigate in order to determine their whereabouts, etc. The idea that the government needs to round everyone up and then check them out is silly, and I don't think anyone interpreted Trump's word like that.

He is prioritizing them. They have gotten a lot of them off the street. Prioritize doesn't mean hes going to ignore all the others. We ALL knew he was going after all of them. The evidence of that is all your side's complaining about how it wasn't posdible to deport all the illegals.

Your post is just a continuation of tge original complaint.

 

[rjs330]

Trump ran on applying the law, that democrats refused to. And he is finding and deporting people which came in here illegally. As per the people's desire.
Democrats are socialists and communists for the most part.

Yes he did.

Id say, these days most Democrats are more in line with Democratic Socialism rather than communism. Although its moving in that direction. The evidence of that is the popularity of Mamdani and his support from Cortez.

 

[eclipsenow]

I dont think thats true. Becauae we dont actually keep track across America who is illegal and who is not when they are arrested. There are states who have laws against it. Also we know that many illegals wont report crime because they are illegal. I know that is used all the time, but it cannot be used as it is not good research.

Secondly, even IF it is true, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are STILL illegal and arw breaking the law by being here and should be deported. If not, then the immigration laws are meaningless.

Actual studies show “illegals” commit less crime​

From 2019:​

"most studies have shown that illegal immigrants tend to commit less crime than the native born"
Gonzalez, Benjamin; Collingwood, Loren; El-Khatib, Stephen Omar (2019). "The Politics of Refuge: Sanctuary Cities, Crime, and Undocumented Immigration". Urban Affairs Review. 55: 107808741770497. doi:10.1177/1078087417704974. S2CID 32604699.

From 2020:​

We make use of uniquely comprehensive arrest data from the Texas Department of Public Safety to compare the criminality of undocumented immigrants to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens between 2012 and 2018. We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. In addition, the proportion of arrests involving undocumented immigrants in Texas was relatively stable or decreasing over this period. The differences between US-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are robust to using alternative estimates of the broader undocumented population, alternate classifications of those counted as “undocumented” at arrest and substituting misdemeanors or convictions as measures of crime.
Light, Michael T.; He, Jingying; Robey, Jason P. (December 2, 2020). "Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 117 (51): 32340–32347. Bibcode:2020PNAS..11732340L. doi:10.1073/pnas.2014704117. PMC 7768760. PMID 33288713.
Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas - PMC

From 2024​

"A range of studies by academics and think tanks have shown that immigrants do not commit crime at a higher rate than native-born Americans. A more limited universe of studies specifically examine criminality among immigrants in the US illegally but also find that they do not commit crimes at a higher rate."
Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica; Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica (July 16, 2024). "Trump says migrants are fueling violent crime. Here is what the research shows". Reuters. Retrieved July 28, 2024.

 

[BCP1928]

Yes he did.

Id say, these days most Democrats are more in line with Democratic Socialism rather than communism. Although its moving in that direction. The evidence of that is the popularity of Mamdani and his support from Cortez.

No, too many Democrats are still neoliberals. Democratic socialists are still a splinter group.

 

[eclipsenow]

Democrats are socialists and communists for the most part.

You don't even HAVE a true left!

Binary​

Why is American politics so binary - but especially the alt-right MAGA crowd? It must be Trump’s rhetoric about a ‘radical socialist left’, where he smashes through reality into some binary world where he is the righteous defender of free markets - and the Democrats are somehow on the radical left.

Americans think the Democrats are 'radical socialists' - but in the big picture of global opinion - they would actually be on many country's FAR RIGHT! More on that below. First - let's see that the world is not binary.

THERE ARE MANY SETTINGS ON THE ECONOMIC DIAL
Let's look at an OVERSIMPLIFIED list of the top 10 categories from "left" to "right". In reality, each of these categories has many sub categories. This is vastly too simplified!

1. Communism (aka fully planned economy)
2. Socialist planned economy
3. Market socialism (socialist market economy)
4. Democratic Socialism
5. Social Democracy
6. Mixed Economy ("responsible capitalism")
7. Social Liberalism (welfare liberalism)
8. Market Liberal (Neo-Liberal)
9. Classical liberal (libertarian capitalism)
10. Laissez-faire (aka Anarcho-capitalism)
Most modern nations are in the ‘Mixed economy’ spectrum somewhere.
I promote Social-Liberal - “Civil rights, social justice and State funded welfare in a market economy.”
More on Mixed Economies here.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/mixed-economic-system.asp

DEMOCRATS ARE FAR RIGHT!
But here’s the thing. If the Democrats were in Australia, they would be in our FAR RIGHT! I’m not kidding. Even Bernie Sanders recommending the Federal government become the Single Payer / Universal Insurer for all American citizens to have access to healthcare would be on our far right! How so?

HEALTHCARE AS AN EXAMPLE
Because he’s talking about the government as universal insurer - NOT OWNER AND OPERATOR of the healthcare system! The Australian Federal and State governments OWN AND OPERATE about 51% of the 700 hospitals in Australia.

This means ALL Australian citizens have access to efficient modern healthcare largely for free! However, the wealthier like more choice - so they have their private insurance and private hospital.

The real surprise? Government owned and operated is more concerned about offering healthcare services, and less about generating profit for shareholders. Australians receive universal healthcare at HALF THE PRICE of Americans - even when all taxpayer contributions and all private healthcare contributions are counted. Americans have the most expensive and inefficient healthcare in the world.

I love our SOCIALIST healthcare system - and defend it as a basic human right! Decades ago, when my little boy had cancer - I practically lived in hospital with him for 6 months for free. No insurance claims, and no extra financial stress. His cancer was stress enough! He pulled through. I’ve also had to go into hospital myself recently. Being in a medical crisis is stressful enough. Being stuck trying to deal with American insurers in the middle of a crisis - that's the true nightmare!

THE RESULT?
Australian citizens go to the doctors more, go earlier, get diagnosed earlier, and treat the condition sooner - which has better outcomes but is also cheaper - at HALF the price of the American healthcare system!
U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022: Accelerating Spending, Worsening Outcomes

More on how America’s healthcare system costs TWICE the global average here.
https://www.investopedia.com/articl...healthcare-costs-compared-other-countries.asp
The wiki:
Healthcare in the United States - Wikipedia

Why American Big Pharma HATE Australia’s Federal agency that purchases meds.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-19/australia-defends-pbs-us-pharma-urges-reciprocal-tariffs/105072750

Until the Democrats can say they are going to BUY half America's hospitals as government OWNED AND OPERATED - they're not even Social Liberal - let alone SOCIALIST!

 

[rjs330]

Actual studies show “illegals” commit less crime​

From 2019:​

"most studies have shown that illegal immigrants tend to commit less crime than the native born"
Gonzalez, Benjamin; Collingwood, Loren; El-Khatib, Stephen Omar (2019). "The Politics of Refuge: Sanctuary Cities, Crime, and Undocumented Immigration". Urban Affairs Review. 55: 107808741770497. doi:10.1177/1078087417704974. S2CID 32604699.

From 2020:​

We make use of uniquely comprehensive arrest data from the Texas Department of Public Safety to compare the criminality of undocumented immigrants to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens between 2012 and 2018. We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. In addition, the proportion of arrests involving undocumented immigrants in Texas was relatively stable or decreasing over this period. The differences between US-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are robust to using alternative estimates of the broader undocumented population, alternate classifications of those counted as “undocumented” at arrest and substituting misdemeanors or convictions as measures of crime.
Light, Michael T.; He, Jingying; Robey, Jason P. (December 2, 2020). "Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 117 (51): 32340–32347. Bibcode:2020PNAS..11732340L. doi:10.1073/pnas.2014704117. PMC 7768760. PMID 33288713.
Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas - PMC

From 2024​

"A range of studies by academics and think tanks have shown that immigrants do not commit crime at a higher rate than native-born Americans. A more limited universe of studies specifically examine criminality among immigrants in the US illegally but also find that they do not commit crimes at a higher rate."
Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica; Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica (July 16, 2024). "Trump says migrants are fueling violent crime. Here is what the research shows". Reuters. Retrieved July 28, 2024.

Ive already told you the studies are bogus and Ive told you why.

I wouldn't say that illegals create more crime. I would say every illegal is a criminal. Which can't be of the native born.

 

[rjs330]

No, too many Democrats are still neoliberals. Democratic socialists are still a splinter group

They are more toward the Democratic Socialist than they are toward Communism. I think there are far fewer neo-liberals in the Democratic party than you believe.