Pregnant women taking Tylenol to spite Trump

[Oompa Loompa]

Neither one happened.

Both happened. Are you arguing in favor of duck season, or rabbit season?

 

[durangodawood]

....
So, in the eyes of many folks, they're choosing between
"Guy who's cooky and believes some weird stuff"
vs
"Normal guy -- but one who could be rubber stamping certain things because he wants a cushy $3M dollar per year gig at a medical company when his tenure in government is up"

So? Theres loads of people who could do the job without initiating their own type of fraud. There is zero good arguments that this baggage is the price we need to pay - other than RFK brought along a voting bloc.

 

[rambot]

Experts Say Pregnant People Should Avoid Tylenol - Medicine.net

Experts Say Pregnant People Should Avoid TylenolByKorin MillerPublished on September 29, 2021Fact checked byNick Blackmer窗体顶端Print窗体底端Doctors are warning about taki

www.medicine.net

ROFL!!! medicine.net


That looks like a source I'm gonna hang my hat on Fer sure!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So? Theres loads of people who could do the job without initiating their own type of fraud. There is zero good arguments that this baggage is the price we need to pay - other than RFK brought along a voting bloc.

okay, so how did that voting bloc (that likes RFK) get big enough that it was even a voter bloc that was worth pandering to or bringing along in the first place?

If the mainstream counterpart was trustworthy, and had been conducting themselves ethically, then the RFK Jr. "fan base/voter bloc" wouldn't be able to fill a double-A ballpark in Iowa.


I'll see if I can find the NIH article again (I believe I posted it on here before so I may be able to find it with the forum search)

But the basic gist of it was highlighting that the increasing interest in alternative medicine stuff and the "alternative wellness industry" boom timeline trends/aligns very well with the growing public concerns about over-prescribing of certain drug classes, and numerous scandals involving the big drug companies and the FDA.

I asked AI to put together a time table.

Period	Prescription Practices	Pharma Scandals / Controversies	Alternative Medicine Trends
1950s–60s	Surge in antibiotics, vaccines, and psychiatric meds (tranquilizers, early antidepressants). Prescriptions become a standard part of care.	Early concerns about tranquilizer dependency (e.g., Valium in 1960s).	CAM marginalized; seen mostly in small countercultural circles.
1970s	Growing availability of chronic disease drugs (e.g., blood pressure meds, statins).	Reports of overprescribing tranquilizers. Growing critiques of impersonal, drug-centric care.	Counterculture sparks holistic health movement: yoga, meditation, herbalism, acupuncture enter mainstream awareness.
1980s	Prescription volumes rise as chronic conditions become major focus.	Criticism of psychiatric overmedication; lawsuits begin challenging marketing tactics.	Wellness movement expands — natural healing, supplements, chiropractic gain popularity.
1990s	Huge growth in antidepressant prescriptions (e.g., Prozac). Direct-to-consumer drug advertising begins (1997 in U.S.).	Questions about antidepressant side effects; concerns about pharma’s marketing power.	Landmark 1993 NEJM survey: ~1/3 of Americans use CAM. 1994 DSHEA law deregulates supplements → explosion of herbal/vitamin market.
2000s	Prescription rates continue climbing (esp. opioids, statins, antidepressants).	Vioxx scandal (2004) — pulled due to cardiovascular risks. Early signs of opioid epidemic.	Hospitals begin offering integrative medicine centers. Acupuncture, yoga, mindfulness adopted in conventional care.
2010s	Opioid prescribing peaks, then declines as epidemic is exposed. Chronic medication dependency is the norm.	Opioid lawsuits against Purdue Pharma & others; pharma trust plummets.	Wellness industry boom — essential oils, naturopathy, CBD, functional medicine, biohacking. CAM embraced as “safer, natural” alternative.
2020s (so far)	Prescription drug use at historic highs for chronic conditions; biologics and specialty drugs rise.	Ongoing fallout from opioid crisis; criticism of COVID-era pharma profits (e.g., vaccines).	CAM mainstreamed via social media; overlaps with anti-pharma sentiment. Alternative “wellness” market worth hundreds of billions globally.

The mainstream establishment basically created the ecosystem that generated a lot of RFK Jr. fans.

 

[Hazelelponi]

So? Theres loads of people who could do the job without initiating their own type of fraud. There is zero good arguments that this baggage is the price we need to pay - other than RFK brought along a voting bloc.

To be fair - that voting block deserves a voice in government too.

It takes a village right? We can't just ignore people and hope they go away.

 

[BCP1928]

To be fair - that voting block deserves a voice in government too.

They already do. They vote. Besides our personal speech, that's all the voice any of us get.

 

[durangodawood]

okay, so how did that voting bloc (that likes RFK) get big enough that it was even a voter bloc that was worth pandering to or bringing along in the first place?

If the mainstream counterpart was trustworthy, and had been conducting themselves ethically, then the RFK Jr. "fan base/voter bloc" wouldn't be able to fill a double-A ballpark in Iowa.


I'll see if I can find the NIH article again (I believe I posted it on here before so I may be able to find it with the forum search)

But the basic gist of it was highlighting that the increasing interest in alternative medicine stuff and the "alternative wellness industry" boom timeline trends/aligns very well with the growing public concerns about over-prescribing of certain drug classes, and numerous scandals involving the big drug companies and the FDA.

I asked AI to put together a time table.

Period	Prescription Practices	Pharma Scandals / Controversies	Alternative Medicine Trends
1950s–60s	Surge in antibiotics, vaccines, and psychiatric meds (tranquilizers, early antidepressants). Prescriptions become a standard part of care.	Early concerns about tranquilizer dependency (e.g., Valium in 1960s).	CAM marginalized; seen mostly in small countercultural circles.
1970s	Growing availability of chronic disease drugs (e.g., blood pressure meds, statins).	Reports of overprescribing tranquilizers. Growing critiques of impersonal, drug-centric care.	Counterculture sparks holistic health movement: yoga, meditation, herbalism, acupuncture enter mainstream awareness.
1980s	Prescription volumes rise as chronic conditions become major focus.	Criticism of psychiatric overmedication; lawsuits begin challenging marketing tactics.	Wellness movement expands — natural healing, supplements, chiropractic gain popularity.
1990s	Huge growth in antidepressant prescriptions (e.g., Prozac). Direct-to-consumer drug advertising begins (1997 in U.S.).	Questions about antidepressant side effects; concerns about pharma’s marketing power.	Landmark 1993 NEJM survey: ~1/3 of Americans use CAM. 1994 DSHEA law deregulates supplements → explosion of herbal/vitamin market.
2000s	Prescription rates continue climbing (esp. opioids, statins, antidepressants).	Vioxx scandal (2004) — pulled due to cardiovascular risks. Early signs of opioid epidemic.	Hospitals begin offering integrative medicine centers. Acupuncture, yoga, mindfulness adopted in conventional care.
2010s	Opioid prescribing peaks, then declines as epidemic is exposed. Chronic medication dependency is the norm.	Opioid lawsuits against Purdue Pharma & others; pharma trust plummets.	Wellness industry boom — essential oils, naturopathy, CBD, functional medicine, biohacking. CAM embraced as “safer, natural” alternative.
2020s (so far)	Prescription drug use at historic highs for chronic conditions; biologics and specialty drugs rise.	Ongoing fallout from opioid crisis; criticism of COVID-era pharma profits (e.g., vaccines).	CAM mainstreamed via social media; overlaps with anti-pharma sentiment. Alternative “wellness” market worth hundreds of billions globally.

The mainstream establishment basically created the ecosystem that generated a lot of RFK Jr. fans.

Half a dozen scandals or problems among a terrific array of useful drugs.

At any rate. I'm not arguing that everything was done right. Nor that there werent some huge important problems. So when I argue that RFK himself is a huge health care problem, why do you dodge that in favor of talking about anything else?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Half a dozen scandals or problems among a terrific array of useful drugs.

...but those half dozen scandals involved millions of people.

Opioid Addiction Directly Impacts 1 in 7 U.S. Adults

And 3 in 10 U.S. adults know someone who has been directly impacted by opioid addiction

pro.morningconsult.com

When 3 in 10 Americans were either directly impacted, or personally know someone who was impacted by the Opioid crisis (a class of drugs that the mainstream medical establishment and regulators signed of on and downplayed the risks), that translates to a very large number of people.

At any rate. I'm not arguing that everything was done right. Nor that there werent some huge important problems. So when I argue that RFK himself is a huge health care problem, why do you dodge that in favor of talking about anything else?

I'm not dodging that fact, I believe noted that he was some wacky/cooky ideas multiple times...

I feel it's more important to identify the traits of the ecosystem that created his rise in popularity, rather than only merely acknowledging how concerning his current level of popularity is.

I like the Maher quote: "If Cracker Jack was made of popcorn and dog poop and half the people threw out the popcorn, popcorn should want to know why."

 

[expos4ever]

People have been finding their identity in their hatred of Trump and politics ever since he started campaigning the first time. It is seriously a massive mental health issue everywhere. It really is sick.

If finding one's identity in opposing a socially immature, authoritarian, convicted felon is a bad thing, what would be a good basis on which to define one's identity?

What you call "sick" is people acting as responsible citizens.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

If finding one's identity in opposing a socially immature, authoritarian, convicted felon is a bad thing, what would be a good basis on which to define one's identity?

What you call "sick" is people acting as responsible citizens.

I am finding my identity in embracing totalitarian authoritarianism and supporting a quasi fascist one party religious nationalist form of government.

 

[BPPLEE]

I thought this thread was about Tylenol

 

[Oompa Loompa]

ROFL!!! medicine.net


That looks like a source I'm gonna hang my hat on Fer sure!

LoL! I guess the company that makes Tylenol is one big wopping joke to you too, eh?

 

[rambot]

LoL! I guess the company that makes Tylenol is one big wopping joke to you too, eh?

No, but quoting that source as though it has any authority and should be trusted is, actually, pretty hiliarious.

Why would I think Kenvue is "one big wopping joke" and how is what I wrote indicative that I think that way?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Do you even know what a fascist is?

I'm sure it's fun for you to throw around but it doesn't describe Trump. Neither does "religious" nationalist.

Trump supports our government making its own citizens the governments #1 priority, and believes in the rule of law and the upholding thereof

When upholding the laws of our Constitutional Republic is fascist the world doesn't believe you understand the words your even using.

Within the first two years of coming to power, Musolini - a fascist - had about 2,000 of his political opponents assassinated - Trump didn't go after his political opponents when he was constitutionally elected in the 2016 presidential election, not for assassination, not for anything.

The same cannot be said on the other side of the aisle. The only one in this whole debacle who was ever gone after by his political opponents was Donald Trump and everyone close to him. The only political rival attempted to be assassinated was Donald Trump and his allies. No one was going after Biden for assassination. No one was silencing descent but the Democrats.

There's nothing in Trump that is fascist. He's not particularly religious either, that many of his constituents are is par for the course in a majority Christian nation.

No where in my post did I mention President Trump.

 

[Hazelelponi]

No where in my post did I mention President Trump.

That's the appearance your words gave, if that was not what you were referring to you might like to edit to add clarity.

 

[durangodawood]

...but those half dozen scandals involved millions of people.

Opioid Addiction Directly Impacts 1 in 7 U.S. Adults

And 3 in 10 U.S. adults know someone who has been directly impacted by opioid addiction

pro.morningconsult.com

When 3 in 10 Americans were either directly impacted, or personally know someone who was impacted by the Opioid crisis (a class of drugs that the mainstream medical establishment and regulators signed of on and downplayed the risks), that translates to a very large number of people.


I'm not dodging that fact, I believe noted that he was some wacky/cooky ideas multiple times...

I feel it's more important to identify the traits of the ecosystem that created his rise in popularity, rather than only merely acknowledging how concerning his current level of popularity is.

I like the Maher quote: "If Cracker Jack was made of popcorn and dog poop and half the people threw out the popcorn, popcorn should want to know why."

I find it most important to remedy problems going forward without creating potentially catastrophic new ones.

I do appreciate how you are highlighting Americans pushing back against corruption not with the hard work of law or accountability, but with breezy stupidity.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I find it most important to remedy problems going forward without creating potentially catastrophic new ones.

I do appreciate how you are highlighting Americans pushing back against corruption not with the hard work of law or accountability, but with breezy stupidity.

...we have to give people a good option.

If corruption is the thing in healthcare that's agitating people the most, if "RFK-style wonkiness" is the only available disruptor, that's going to be what a large number of people go with it.

The sharp uptick in people getting fed up with the establishment healthcare system and seeking "alternatives" started in the earlier 90's.

We've had
2 Clinton Terms
2 Bush II Terms
2 Obama Terms
1 Biden Term

between then an now.

That means we've had 25 "non-Trump" years where someone could've provided people with that much needed "third option" of someone who's both professionally qualified, and not a pushover for the industry they're supposed to be regulating.

Kessler (originally appointed by George HW Bush in 1990, and stuck around for part of Clinton's first term before getting replaced) was the last FDA head we've had that wasn't part of the 'revolving door' - and instead migrated into academia rather than "the biz". (he was known to be particularly rigid on regulatory oversight and cracked down on speedy drug approvals and was very big on consumer protection). After they got him on out of the way, it was it was nothing but a chain of "industry-friendly" mouthpieces for the most part.

 

[BCP1928]

...we have to give people a good option.

If corruption is the thing in healthcare that's agitating people the most, if "RFK-style wonkiness" is the only available disruptor, that's going to be what a large number of people go with it.

The sharp uptick in people getting fed up with the establishment healthcare system and seeking "alternatives" started in the earlier 90's.

We've had
2 Clinton Terms
2 Bush II Terms
2 Obama Terms
1 Biden Term

between then an now.

That means we've had 25 "non-Trump" years where someone could've provided people with that much needed "third option" of someone who's both professionally qualified, and not a pushover for the industry they're supposed to be regulating.

Kessler (originally appointed by George HW Bush in 1990, and stuck around for part of Clinton's first term before getting replaced) was the last FDA head we've had that wasn't part of the 'revolving door' - and instead migrated into academia rather than "the biz". (he was known to be particularly rigid on regulatory oversight and cracked down on speedy drug approvals and was very big on consumer protection). After they got him on out of the way, it was it was nothing but a chain of "industry-friendly" mouthpieces for the most part.

I'm shocked to find neoliberalism going on in this establishment!

 

[Yarddog]

Talking about hating Trump more than they love their children. Just imagine what suicide rates would be if Trump announced that jumping off a cliff is bad for your health.

Sadly, you're probably right.

 

[Tinker Grey]

[Word Crank on]
not "to spite". Rather, "despite"

I'm sure no one is taking Tylenol "to spite Trump"
[/Word Crank]