Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

[Bro.T]

Herer is a point by point rbuttal of your arguments.

1. Grace existed before Christ but only in a limited form (Noah saved from flood, not eternal salvation).​

• Claim: Noah’s grace was only temporal (deliverance from the flood). True grace (salvation) came only when Christ died.
• Rebuttal:
  • Romans 4:3 – “Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” → Salvation by grace through faith existed before the cross.
  • Hebrews 11 lists OT believers (Noah, Abraham, Moses) as saved by faith—looking forward to Christ’s sacrifice.
  • The cross was the basis of salvation for all ages (past, present, future), not just after Christ appeared (Heb. 9:15).

2. Jesus’ death justifies us only for past sins; future sins require new forgiveness daily.​

• Claim: Baptism saves from past sins only; salvation must be renewed daily because we continue to sin.
• Rebuttal:
  • Hebrews 10:14 – “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.” → Christ’s sacrifice covers all sins (past, present, future).
  • 1 John 1:7 – “The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (present, ongoing action).
  • Romans 8:1 – “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.” → Security is not conditional on day-to-day cleansing but abiding in Christ.

3. The laws we are freed from are sacrificial and priesthood laws; moral law must still be kept.​

• Claim: Jesus removed sacrificial law but moral law (e.g., Ten Commandments) is still binding.
• Rebuttal:
  • Romans 6:14 – “Ye are not under the law, but under grace.” → Believers are freed from the law’s authority as a covenant.
  • The moral imperatives are fulfilled through the Spirit’s law of love (Romans 13:8–10, Galatians 5:22–23), not by re-imposing the Mosaic law.
  • We will obey the Sermon on The Mount because we have been saved and love our Father and our Elder Brother. This is not the cause of our salvation but it's effect.

4. If you sin willfully after knowing the truth, there is no more sacrifice (Heb. 10:26).​

• Claim: After baptism/faith, if one sins deliberately, eternal damnation is certain.
• Rebuttal:
  • Context of Hebrews 10:26 = rejecting Christ’s once-for-all sacrifice and returning to animal sacrifices, not ordinary stumbles in Christian life. I person is depending on something other than Christ and putting their faith in it and this will lead to certian death.
  • 1 John 2:1 – “If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” → There is continued provision for forgiveness even after conversion. But it is not salvific it is that we have love him and are sorry for our disobedience.
  • John 10:28–29 – Jesus says no one can pluck believers from His hand. → Security in Christ is not lost with every sin, but only by ultimately rejecting Him. Even if it is a partial rejection so that we can depend in part upon our own behaviour.

5. Grace = access back to the Tree of Life (Christ).​

• Claim: Grace is defined narrowly as restored access to eternal life.
• Rebuttal:
  • Ephesians 2:8–9 – “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” → Grace is God’s unmerited favor, not simply access to the Tree.
  • Titus 2:11–12 – Grace not only saves but also “teaches us to deny ungodliness.” → Grace is broader than access—it is God’s ongoing empowerment.

Summary​

The argument has five major flaws:

1. Misunderstanding OT grace → OT saints were saved by faith in the coming Christ, not just temporal deliverance.
2. Limiting Christ’s atonement to past sins only → The cross covers all sins, once for all.
3. Keeping the Moral moral law as binding → The Spirit fulfills the law through love.
4. Misreading Hebrews 10:26 → It warns against apostasy, not daily sins.
5. Redefining grace too narrowly → Grace is broader: unmerited favor + empowerment, not only restored access.

You did a great job on breaking down my post, I like that. So now that you can do that I would say this ,concerning your major flaws you see of course. Jesus says in John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, adhere to God's dietary laws in Lev.11ch, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[Mercy Shown]

You did a great job on breaking down my post, I like that. So now that you can do that I would say this ,concerning your major flaws you see of course. Jesus says in John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, adhere to God's dietary laws in Lev.11ch, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

1. Salvation is a gift, not earned by works​

Scriptural basis:

• Ephesians 2:8–9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
  • Point: Salvation is explicitly described as a gift, received through faith, not something you earn. If works came first, salvation would be “a result of works,” which Scripture denies.
• Romans 4:4–5 – “Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”
  • Point: Faith is credited as righteousness before works enter the picture. Works are not the currency of salvation.

Counterpoint: Some argue, “James says faith without works is dead.”

• Defense: James 2:17–18 isn’t teaching works earn salvation; it teaches that genuine faith is inherently active. Works are evidence of faith, not its cause.

2. Good works flow from salvation as evidence​

Scriptural basis:

• John 15:4–5 – “Abide in me, and I in you…for apart from me you can do nothing.”
  • Point: Fruit (good works) comes after and as a result of abiding in Christ. You can’t produce spiritual fruit without first being connected to Him.
• Galatians 5:22–23 – The “fruit of the Spirit” comes as a result of the Spirit’s work in a believer’s life, not as a prerequisite to receive salvation.
• 2 Corinthians 5:17–18 – “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ…“
  • Point: Transformation occurs after reconciliation. Works flow from the new life, not before.

3. Salvation precedes justification, then sanctification​

Biblical framework:

1. Justification: God declares the sinner righteous (Romans 5:1).
2. Regeneration/Conversion: The believer is born again (John 3:3–7).
3. Sanctification: Good works and holy living flow out of this new life (Philippians 2:12–13; Titus 2:11–14).

• Romans 6:1–14 – Paul explains that believers are united with Christ in His death and resurrection. This union produces obedience and holiness, not the other way around.

Counterpoint: Some claim that obedience must precede salvation (e.g., “repent and be baptized to be saved”).

• Defense: Even repentance and faith are responses to God’s initiating grace (Acts 2:37–38; 16:14–15). They are not meritorious works but acts of trust that flow from God’s prior work in the heart.

4. Works are the fruit, not the root​

• Matthew 7:16–20 – Jesus says you recognize trees by their fruit. The fruit proves the nature of the tree, not vice versa.
  • Salvation is the tree; good works are the fruit. Trying to reverse this is a category error.
• 1 John 3:7–10 – John distinguishes between those “born of God” and those who are not. Good works identify the believer after rebirth, not as the cause of it.

 

[Bro.T]

1. Salvation is a gift, not earned by works​

Scriptural basis:

• Ephesians 2:8–9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
  • Point: Salvation is explicitly described as a gift, received through faith, not something you earn. If works came first, salvation would be “a result of works,” which Scripture denies.
• Romans 4:4–5 – “Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”
  • Point: Faith is credited as righteousness before works enter the picture. Works are not the currency of salvation.

Counterpoint: Some argue, “James says faith without works is dead.”

• Defense: James 2:17–18 isn’t teaching works earn salvation; it teaches that genuine faith is inherently active. Works are evidence of faith, not its cause.

2. Good works flow from salvation as evidence​

Scriptural basis:

• John 15:4–5 – “Abide in me, and I in you…for apart from me you can do nothing.”
  • Point: Fruit (good works) comes after and as a result of abiding in Christ. You can’t produce spiritual fruit without first being connected to Him.
• Galatians 5:22–23 – The “fruit of the Spirit” comes as a result of the Spirit’s work in a believer’s life, not as a prerequisite to receive salvation.
• 2 Corinthians 5:17–18 – “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ…“
  • Point: Transformation occurs after reconciliation. Works flow from the new life, not before.

3. Salvation precedes justification, then sanctification​

Biblical framework:

1. Justification: God declares the sinner righteous (Romans 5:1).
2. Regeneration/Conversion: The believer is born again (John 3:3–7).
3. Sanctification: Good works and holy living flow out of this new life (Philippians 2:12–13; Titus 2:11–14).

• Romans 6:1–14 – Paul explains that believers are united with Christ in His death and resurrection. This union produces obedience and holiness, not the other way around.

Counterpoint: Some claim that obedience must precede salvation (e.g., “repent and be baptized to be saved”).

• Defense: Even repentance and faith are responses to God’s initiating grace (Acts 2:37–38; 16:14–15). They are not meritorious works but acts of trust that flow from God’s prior work in the heart.

4. Works are the fruit, not the root​

• Matthew 7:16–20 – Jesus says you recognize trees by their fruit. The fruit proves the nature of the tree, not vice versa.
  • Salvation is the tree; good works are the fruit. Trying to reverse this is a category error.
• 1 John 3:7–10 – John distinguishes between those “born of God” and those who are not. Good works identify the believer after rebirth, not as the cause of it.

Paul said in (Gal. 6 (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Paul said in (Gal. 6 (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

1. Paul’s Larger Argument in Galatians​

• In earlier chapters (Galatians 2:16; 3:11), Paul insists: “By works of the law no one will be justified.”
• He teaches that salvation comes only by grace through faith in Christ. That’s the foundation.
• So, when we get to chapter 6, Paul is not reversing himself. He’s showing what a life already saved by grace should look like.

2. What Chapter 6 Is About​

• Chapter 6 is practical instruction. It flows from chapter 5, where Paul contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit.
• The fruit of the Spirit is not how we earn salvation; it’s the evidence that the Spirit is alive in us.
• Bearing one another’s burdens, being humble, and sowing to the Spirit (6:8) are marks of a Spirit-filled life—not requirements to be saved.

3. Why Verse 3 Isn’t Works-Righteousness​

• When Paul says not to think of yourself too highly, he’s urging humility so that believers will serve each other.
• This doesn’t cause salvation—it shows that the Spirit has changed your heart.
• Think of it this way:
  • Root = Faith in Christ (salvation)
  • Fruit = Love, service, humility (evidence of salvation)

4. Other Supporting Verses​

• Ephesians 2:8–9 → “By grace you have been saved through faith … not a result of works.”
• Ephesians 2:10 → But once saved, we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand.”
• James 2:17 → Faith without works is dead—not because works save us, but because true faith inevitably produces works.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation.

Verse 5: Bear Your Own Load​

• “Each will have to bear his own load”
• Contextually, Paul distinguishes between two kinds of “loads”:
  1. Burden of sin: other people can help restore someone caught in sin (v.1–2)
  2. Personal responsibilities: each person must own their daily responsibilities and spiritual growth
• The idea is personal accountability: God doesn’t leave us passive. The Spirit guides us, but we still actively live out our faith.

(v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

Meaning​

• “Do not be deceived” → Don’t fool yourself into thinking God’s justice or spiritual principles can be ignored.
• “God is not mocked” → God sees the truth of our lives; we cannot trick Him with empty faith, hypocrisy, or mere appearances.
• “Whatever one sows, that will he also reap” → The choices we make—how we live and act—have consequences.

Paul isn’t saying this is about salvation by works. Instead, he is speaking about spiritual reality in the life of a believer:

1. Sowing to the flesh (v.8) → living according to selfish desires, sin, pride → reap corruption, emptiness, or consequences.
2. Sowing to the Spirit (v.8) → living in obedience, love, humility, service → reap eternal life and spiritual fruit.

Key Point​

• Salvation is already by grace through faith (root).
• This verse is about results of your actions in the life you now live in Christ (fruit).
• God’s moral/spiritual law ensures that what you cultivate spiritually—whether sinful or Spirit-led—produces a harvest.

Think of it like this:

• You are saved by faith in Christ (the seed).
• Your actions after salvation are the soil and watering—they produce a harvest.
• Verse 7 is a reminder that you can’t separate faith from the way you live; your choices have real consequences.

When something dies it begins to let off an unpleasant odor and it no longer is animated. But if we perfume the animal and move its legs, it is not living and neither is a person alive to God who is trying to keep the law to resurect himslef to God. As Paul told titus, "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:5-7

 

[ARBITER01]

The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

Feel the need to reply to this,...

That would be incorrect.


John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, the-one believing in Me, the works that I do shall that-one do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto The Father.


Our works are to conform to the works that Jesus did. That is the bare standard from Jesus, and as well, He said that we should do works greater than He did because He will now be to the right of The Father.

Christian works are a proof of salvation, yes, but only if they conform to those that Jesus did. In other words, if you life centers around your church and it's social activities, you're missing the mark. Christ-likeness is our goal down here, not churchianity.

 

[Bro.T]

Feel the need to reply to this,...

That would be incorrect.


John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, the-one believing in Me, the works that I do shall that-one do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto The Father.


Our works are to conform to the works that Jesus did. That is the bare standard from Jesus, and as well, He said that we should do works greater than He did because He will now be to the right of The Father.

Christian works are a proof of salvation, yes, but only if they conform to those that Jesus did. In other words, if you life centers around your church and it's social activities, you're missing the mark. Christ-likeness is our goal down here, not churchianity.

It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. The works that Jesus did was in order for you to be able to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins, so you can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

When people see works in the Bible spoken by Paul and they see law, being put together, they assume that’s talking about the Royal law (Commandments). The works of the law was nail to the cross, and that works were animal sacrificial laws. Let’s first take a look at this law that was nail to the cross that Paul explains in Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins.

Let’s take a look at both laws in one verse, the Royal law (Ten commandments) and the animal sacrificial law in Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. This law is part of the commandments. Paul, is quoting Moses, let's take a look. Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

 

[Bro.T]

1. Paul’s Larger Argument in Galatians​

• In earlier chapters (Galatians 2:16; 3:11), Paul insists: “By works of the law no one will be justified.”
• He teaches that salvation comes only by grace through faith in Christ. That’s the foundation.
• So, when we get to chapter 6, Paul is not reversing himself. He’s showing what a life already saved by grace should look like.

2. What Chapter 6 Is About​

• Chapter 6 is practical instruction. It flows from chapter 5, where Paul contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit.
• The fruit of the Spirit is not how we earn salvation; it’s the evidence that the Spirit is alive in us.
• Bearing one another’s burdens, being humble, and sowing to the Spirit (6:8) are marks of a Spirit-filled life—not requirements to be saved.

3. Why Verse 3 Isn’t Works-Righteousness​

• When Paul says not to think of yourself too highly, he’s urging humility so that believers will serve each other.
• This doesn’t cause salvation—it shows that the Spirit has changed your heart.
• Think of it this way:
  • Root = Faith in Christ (salvation)
  • Fruit = Love, service, humility (evidence of salvation)

4. Other Supporting Verses​

• Ephesians 2:8–9 → “By grace you have been saved through faith … not a result of works.”
• Ephesians 2:10 → But once saved, we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand.”
• James 2:17 → Faith without works is dead—not because works save us, but because true faith inevitably produces works.

Verse 5: Bear Your Own Load​

• “Each will have to bear his own load”
• Contextually, Paul distinguishes between two kinds of “loads”:
  1. Burden of sin: other people can help restore someone caught in sin (v.1–2)
  2. Personal responsibilities: each person must own their daily responsibilities and spiritual growth
• The idea is personal accountability: God doesn’t leave us passive. The Spirit guides us, but we still actively live out our faith.

Meaning​

• “Do not be deceived” → Don’t fool yourself into thinking God’s justice or spiritual principles can be ignored.
• “God is not mocked” → God sees the truth of our lives; we cannot trick Him with empty faith, hypocrisy, or mere appearances.
• “Whatever one sows, that will he also reap” → The choices we make—how we live and act—have consequences.

Paul isn’t saying this is about salvation by works. Instead, he is speaking about spiritual reality in the life of a believer:

1. Sowing to the flesh (v.8) → living according to selfish desires, sin, pride → reap corruption, emptiness, or consequences.
2. Sowing to the Spirit (v.8) → living in obedience, love, humility, service → reap eternal life and spiritual fruit.

Key Point​

• Salvation is already by grace through faith (root).
• This verse is about results of your actions in the life you now live in Christ (fruit).
• God’s moral/spiritual law ensures that what you cultivate spiritually—whether sinful or Spirit-led—produces a harvest.

Think of it like this:

• You are saved by faith in Christ (the seed).
• Your actions after salvation are the soil and watering—they produce a harvest.
• Verse 7 is a reminder that you can’t separate faith from the way you live; your choices have real consequences.

When something dies it begins to let off an unpleasant odor and it no longer is animated. But if we perfume the animal and move its legs, it is not living and neither is a person alive to God who is trying to keep the law to resurect himslef to God. As Paul told titus, "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:5-7

First let me say that God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

Now let Paul explain what's going on here in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

To sum up what going on here in Galatians, Paul is explaining that Christ came from Abraham seed, and remove the animal Sacrificial law. But in the days of Abraham that animal Sacrificial law never was on the table, and was not needed for Abraham to obey and have faith in God. But the Commandments was always on the table.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. (Paul breaks down more of this law in Hebrew 10th Chapter)

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.

 

[ARBITER01]

It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. The works that Jesus did was in order for you to be able to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins, so you can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

When people see works in the Bible spoken by Paul and they see law, being put together, they assume that’s talking about the Royal law (Commandments). The works of the law was nail to the cross, and that works were animal sacrificial laws. Let’s first take a look at this law that was nail to the cross that Paul explains in Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins.

Let’s take a look at both laws in one verse, the Royal law (Ten commandments) and the animal sacrificial law in Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. This law is part of the commandments. Paul, is quoting Moses, let's take a look. Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

I'm not sure what your purpose in posting that to my reply was,.....

I'm not here to argue things with people much anymore. Either you know or you don't know. Either you're following the leading of The Holy Spirit or you're following personal beliefs.

 

[Mercy Shown]

First let me say that God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

1. Peter validates Paul’s writings as Scripture
   • Notice what Peter actually says in 2 Peter 3:16: “as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things”—Peter is affirming that Paul’s letters are authoritative and trustworthy. He doesn’t say we should disregard them or treat them as inferior.
   • Peter recognizes some parts are hard to understand, but he still calls them Scripture, implying that careful study and guidance from the Holy Spirit will clarify them. Misunderstanding does not invalidate the teaching itself.
2. Acknowledging difficulty is not the same as dismissing the message
   • The fact that some writings are hard to understand doesn’t mean they should be ignored. Many passages in Scripture are challenging (e.g., Revelation, Ezekiel, the Song of Solomon). The warning is about careful interpretation, not selective reading.
   • The “unlearned and unstable” misinterpretation mentioned by Peter is a human failing, not a fault in Paul’s writings.
3. Context matters: Paul consistently teaches salvation by grace through faith
   • Paul’s central message, repeated in multiple epistles (Romans, Ephesians, Galatians), is clear: salvation comes by God’s grace through faith, not by works.
   • Picking up one hard-to-understand verse in isolation does not negate the broader, repeated biblical teaching.
4. Peter’s warning encourages discernment, not rejection
   • The passage encourages careful, humble study of Scripture, not blanket skepticism toward Paul.
   • A faithful approach is to study Paul in harmony with the rest of Scripture, applying proper context and relying on the Spirit for understanding.

Peter affirms Paul’s writings as inspired and valuable, even while acknowledging they can be misinterpreted by some. The warning is not a reason to ignore the clear teaching in Paul’s letters—especially the consistent message of salvation by grace through faith—but a call to careful study and proper understanding in the broader context of Scripture.

 

[Bro.T]

1. Peter validates Paul’s writings as Scripture
   • Notice what Peter actually says in 2 Peter 3:16: “as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things”—Peter is affirming that Paul’s letters are authoritative and trustworthy. He doesn’t say we should disregard them or treat them as inferior.
   • Peter recognizes some parts are hard to understand, but he still calls them Scripture, implying that careful study and guidance from the Holy Spirit will clarify them. Misunderstanding does not invalidate the teaching itself.
2. Acknowledging difficulty is not the same as dismissing the message
   • The fact that some writings are hard to understand doesn’t mean they should be ignored. Many passages in Scripture are challenging (e.g., Revelation, Ezekiel, the Song of Solomon). The warning is about careful interpretation, not selective reading.
   • The “unlearned and unstable” misinterpretation mentioned by Peter is a human failing, not a fault in Paul’s writings.
3. Context matters: Paul consistently teaches salvation by grace through faith
   • Paul’s central message, repeated in multiple epistles (Romans, Ephesians, Galatians), is clear: salvation comes by God’s grace through faith, not by works.
   • Picking up one hard-to-understand verse in isolation does not negate the broader, repeated biblical teaching.
4. Peter’s warning encourages discernment, not rejection
   • The passage encourages careful, humble study of Scripture, not blanket skepticism toward Paul.
   • A faithful approach is to study Paul in harmony with the rest of Scripture, applying proper context and relying on the Spirit for understanding.

Peter affirms Paul’s writings as inspired and valuable, even while acknowledging they can be misinterpreted by some. The warning is not a reason to ignore the clear teaching in Paul’s letters—especially the consistent message of salvation by grace through faith—but a call to careful study and proper understanding in the broader context of Scripture.

Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Paul explain this in Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul said, A person that does not keep the law (commandments) is carnal minded and a carnal minded person is enmity against God. Means you got a problem with God. Now if you keep the law (commandments), you are in the spirit of God, you don't walk with a fleshy mind, but a spiritual mind, so you do the things that pleases God. That’s simple.

Paul says in Roman 7: 4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter

What law? Not the commandments, so Paul must be talking about another law here.


Paul speaks in a confusing way and if you don't have understanding in the whole Bible you will get turn around, which I see. Think about what Paul is saying here in verse 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What law? Not the commandments, so Paul must be talking about another law. Paul explained this law in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.


Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the Day of Judgment and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Let’s continue and see Paul bring in the Commandments in (Rom. 7:7, 12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy? Paul said in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

 

[Bro.T]

I'm not sure what your purpose in posting that to my reply was,.....

I'm not here to argue things with people much anymore. Either you know or you don't know. Either you're following the leading of The Holy Spirit or you're following personal beliefs.

I post because Paul says in 2 Timothy 4: 2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

 

[Bro.T]

1. Paul’s Larger Argument in Galatians​

• In earlier chapters (Galatians 2:16; 3:11), Paul insists: “By works of the law no one will be justified.”
• He teaches that salvation comes only by grace through faith in Christ. That’s the foundation.
• So, when we get to chapter 6, Paul is not reversing himself. He’s showing what a life already saved by grace should look like.

2. What Chapter 6 Is About​

• Chapter 6 is practical instruction. It flows from chapter 5, where Paul contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit.
• The fruit of the Spirit is not how we earn salvation; it’s the evidence that the Spirit is alive in us.
• Bearing one another’s burdens, being humble, and sowing to the Spirit (6:8) are marks of a Spirit-filled life—not requirements to be saved.

3. Why Verse 3 Isn’t Works-Righteousness​

• When Paul says not to think of yourself too highly, he’s urging humility so that believers will serve each other.
• This doesn’t cause salvation—it shows that the Spirit has changed your heart.
• Think of it this way:
  • Root = Faith in Christ (salvation)
  • Fruit = Love, service, humility (evidence of salvation)

4. Other Supporting Verses​

• Ephesians 2:8–9 → “By grace you have been saved through faith … not a result of works.”
• Ephesians 2:10 → But once saved, we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand.”
• James 2:17 → Faith without works is dead—not because works save us, but because true faith inevitably produces works.

Verse 5: Bear Your Own Load​

• “Each will have to bear his own load”
• Contextually, Paul distinguishes between two kinds of “loads”:
  1. Burden of sin: other people can help restore someone caught in sin (v.1–2)
  2. Personal responsibilities: each person must own their daily responsibilities and spiritual growth
• The idea is personal accountability: God doesn’t leave us passive. The Spirit guides us, but we still actively live out our faith.

Meaning​

• “Do not be deceived” → Don’t fool yourself into thinking God’s justice or spiritual principles can be ignored.
• “God is not mocked” → God sees the truth of our lives; we cannot trick Him with empty faith, hypocrisy, or mere appearances.
• “Whatever one sows, that will he also reap” → The choices we make—how we live and act—have consequences.

Paul isn’t saying this is about salvation by works. Instead, he is speaking about spiritual reality in the life of a believer:

1. Sowing to the flesh (v.8) → living according to selfish desires, sin, pride → reap corruption, emptiness, or consequences.
2. Sowing to the Spirit (v.8) → living in obedience, love, humility, service → reap eternal life and spiritual fruit.

Key Point​

• Salvation is already by grace through faith (root).
• This verse is about results of your actions in the life you now live in Christ (fruit).
• God’s moral/spiritual law ensures that what you cultivate spiritually—whether sinful or Spirit-led—produces a harvest.

Think of it like this:

• You are saved by faith in Christ (the seed).
• Your actions after salvation are the soil and watering—they produce a harvest.
• Verse 7 is a reminder that you can’t separate faith from the way you live; your choices have real consequences.

When something dies it begins to let off an unpleasant odor and it no longer is animated. But if we perfume the animal and move its legs, it is not living and neither is a person alive to God who is trying to keep the law to resurect himslef to God. As Paul told titus, "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:5-7

Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. And some of you won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible, but a lot of work get put into them. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because they have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because they fear how man is going to treat them, and don’t fear God. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

 

[Bro.T]

Feel the need to reply to this,...

That would be incorrect.


John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, the-one believing in Me, the works that I do shall that-one do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto The Father.


Our works are to conform to the works that Jesus did. That is the bare standard from Jesus, and as well, He said that we should do works greater than He did because He will now be to the right of The Father.

Christian works are a proof of salvation, yes, but only if they conform to those that Jesus did. In other words, if you life centers around your church and it's social activities, you're missing the mark. Christ-likeness is our goal down here, not churchianity.

You must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

 

[ARBITER01]

You must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

Well, I'll tell you what,..... I'm going to go with what Jesus actually said about what works we are to perform.

I think obeying Him is way more important.

 

[ARBITER01]

I post because Paul says in 2 Timothy 4: 2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Your point has no relevance with my original post, and I'm not interested in arguing over it.

 

[Abraham1st]

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. And some of you won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible, but a lot of work get put into them. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because they have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because they fear how man is going to treat them, and don’t fear God. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

The work of God is to believe in who He sent, and He sent Jesus Christ for all the reasons He did in the gospel, the most reason of all is to show the love of God, in simplicity, so with Jesus you have freedom from law, you do as you are led, we see that in every example of Christ, we see the Pharisees as an opposing example, to find fault with just about everything Jesus did, but the fault was in them doing set ways, that were not from the love of God at all, mercy faith, etc.



Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.



So a greater law was in front of the Pharisees, as greater testimony is in front of those who do or promote the same old ways, again we saw no set law for Apostle Paul, we instead see the same Jews against Him with their law, but we see them overcome by the same freedom in Christ, and shown the highest example of what charity is, how it is greater than all other things, no matter how much knowledge a person may consider thy have, it is charity alone that edifies, and that is seen in the cross of Christ, in meekness, and temperance, the Pharisees have no law against these, yet they did not do them, it is Christ alone that did, and they that are His, have also crucified their flesh with all affections and lusts.



Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25)

Making sure that I take care of my family the best that I can and not unduly burden the church with my temporal neccesities

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what
shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The Lord’s words in Matthew 16:25–26 are not teaching that eternal life is earned by our own obedience to commandments and statutes, but that true faith in Him produces a transformed life. Jesus is contrasting the one who clings to self and worldly gain with the one who trusts Him even unto death. Salvation is never conditioned on human works, for Scripture says plainly, “By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9). The call to “lose one’s life” is the call of faith—to lay aside self-reliance and worldly trust and to embrace Christ as Lord and Savior. Good fruits will indeed follow, but they are the evidence of salvation, not the grounds of it: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” (Ephesians 2:10). Therefore, Jesus’ warning about gaining the world and losing the soul is not a command to secure eternal life by our own law-keeping, but an invitation to forsake empty self-sufficiency and receive His righteousness by faith.

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. And some of you won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible, but a lot of work get put into them. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because they have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because they fear how man is going to treat them, and don’t fear God. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

Through faith in Christ, His perfect righteousness is imputed to believers, not earned by our works but freely given as a gift of grace. Paul writes, “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous” (Romans 5:19). Just as Adam’s sin was imputed to all mankind, bringing condemnation, so Christ’s obedience is imputed to all who believe, bringing justification. This righteousness is not our own but is credited to us: “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:9). In this way, God declares the believer righteous, clothing us with Christ’s obedience so that we stand faultless before Him.

 

[Abraham1st]

Through faith in Christ, His perfect righteousness is imputed to believers, not earned by our works but freely given as a gift of grace. Paul writes, “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous” (Romans 5:19). Just as Adam’s sin was imputed to all mankind, bringing condemnation, so Christ’s obedience is imputed to all who believe, bringing justification. This righteousness is not our own but is credited to us: “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:9). In this way, God declares the believer righteous, clothing us with Christ’s obedience so that we stand faultless before Him.

Adams offence was brought to all, otherwise why did all men sin, they all sinned because sin was in the world, which came by God giving commandment and by man disobeying it. The wages of sin/disobedience/transgression, are death. The disobedience came by the serpents beguiling, that it was a good idea to do what God had forbidden, and that they would not die for it. Not only they did die for it, but also all died for the same lack of obedience to God. But Go gave a way out, and Abraham received the promises, and the promise of the Spirit ( with which we can obey God) came, and eventually the promise was fulfilled with the faaith of Christ, but took HIs life, body and blood to redeem us back to God, which was acceptable to God and we are to present our lives and bodies as sacrifice to God also, which ios our reasonable service.

 

[Abraham1st]

1. Grace existed before Christ but only in a limited form (Noah saved from flood, not eternal salvation).​

• Claim: Noah’s grace was only temporal (deliverance from the flood). True grace (salvation) came only when Christ died.
• Rebuttal:
  • Romans 4:3 – “Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” → Salvation by grace through faith existed before the cross.
  • Hebrews 11 lists OT believers (Noah, Abraham, Moses) as saved by faith—looking forward to Christ’s sacrifice.
  • The cross was the basis of salvation for all ages (past, present, future), not just after Christ appeared (Heb. 9:15).

There seems to be an omission of an important part in your summary. Noah is the heir of the righteousness, which is by faith, but there is a mystery involved, I will show it to all. Hebrews 11:7-8, is in the correct particular and linked order, because Noah has a covenant given to him and his seed after him, and that is to Abraham, who has the covenant with him and his seed after him.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.


So here below in Genesis 9, is the covenant with the seed after Noah.


Genesis 9:8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 AND I, BEHOLD I ESTABLISH MY COVENANT WITH YOU, and WITH YOUR SEED AFTER YOU;
10 AND WITH EVERY LIVING CREATURE THAT IS WITH YOU, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood TO DESTROY THE EARTH.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.



Here in Genesis 17, is the covenant, and it is again, with his seed after him. The covenant would be established with Isaac, THIS IS THE CRUCIAL PART, OF IN ISAAC SHALL YOUR SEED BE CALLED. ow the covenant is with Jacob, so the seed after them.


Genesis 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and WITH HIS SEED AFTER HIM.

Genesis 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Genesis 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for IN ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED.

Genesis 35:12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and TO THY SEED AFTER THEE will I give the land.



So who is that seed after Noah first of all, ( not heir of the righteousness which is by faith for nothing, but because of the covenant that said, with his seed after him) So it is the children of promise, as God gave promise to Abraham, of having his son Isaac with Sarah, and in Isaac the seed is called. One of Abrahams two sins was born after the flesh and not by promise, and that one persecutes the other. Then that one is cast out to not be heir with the free. The seed starting with Noah was Christ.


Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.



Noah also had another testimony, of being the heir of the righteousness which is by faith, to be saved by water. Baptism also now saves us, saved by water again, and even by that heir of the righteousness, ( the son of the one born after the flesh shall not be heir) which is by faith, and the covenant with the seed after him ( which seed is Christ.) all is the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.



So the part omitted, is what part Noah and Abraham are, not just people who believed in God/were given God's grace, but of the covenant God made/promises given and fulfilled in Christ...



Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: