Multiple victims in Michigan church shooting; church on fire

[JosephZ]

What I see being filmed all over the place, is the same as what I experience firsthand but it's all marketing. And that goes for everyone else that sees what they themselves are experiencing happening all over the the country. You can even go to google street views and see how bad it is. But that's all supposed to be bogus. It seems like it would be a lot harder to stage all that, than to put out graph based on who knows what. It's easy to skew data like that by being selective about what's entered. That's where data is factual, but not thorough enough.

But the bad stuff still does exist. For example why is so much merchandise in stores locked up when it never was before? There's whole isles where everything is behind locked glass doors or in cages. I literally can't even buy underwear in the middle of the day, unless I find someone with a key.

Real Versus Perceived Crime Rates: Examining Causes of the Disconnect Between Fear and Reality

Americans are more fearful of crime than at any other point in the past two decades, even though crime rates are at the lowest point in close to 30 years. Previous literature has examined various causes of this exaggerated fear, ranging from gender differences to perceived neighborhood disorder as the cause. There have been multiple findings suggesting that neighborhood disorder plays a significant role in creating fear of crime. The presence of trash, unkempt lawns, and run-down properties lead people to believe crime is worse in their area than it actually is. This study examines fear of crime in association to the national robbery rate, media reporting on retail theft, and the presence of unsheltered homeless, as a proxy of perceived neighborhood disorder, to explore causes of the fear. This paper contributes to the previous literature by using new measures to examine potential causes of fear of crime, particularly finding that neighborhood disorder was most closely associated with trends in fear of crime.

Americans are more fearful of crime than at any point in more than two decades, with 78% of those polled asserting there is more crime than ever before (Ambrey, Fleming, & Manning, 2014; Gallup, 2023). In 2023, 40% of Americans reported being afraid to walk alone at night in their area, the highest such number in 30 years (Gallup, 2023). The number of Americans afraid of getting mugged has also jumped, going from 18% of adults being afraid of getting mugged in 2000 to 37% in 2023 (Gallup, 2023). Despite the spike in fear of crime, crime rates themselves have dropped significantly (Crime Data Explorer, 2022). Between 1993 and 2022, violent crime rates fell 70.5% (Crime Data Explorer, 2022). Property crimes have followed the same trend, dropping 71% from 1993 to 2022 (Crime Data Explorer, 2022; Pew, 2022). These trends suggest that overall crime rates have dropped to their lowest point in 30 years and yet fear of crime is hitting record highs (Gallup, 2023; Crime Data Explorer, 2022). What explains this disconnect between perception and reality?

One potential reason for this disconnect is that the memory of a traumatic event presented in the media is much more likely to stay in the public’s mind compared to objective statistics about crime rates. Ardananz, Corbacho, and Ruiz-Vega (2014) examined how people react when they are provided with the real rate of crime in their area. The authors found that the more someone believed they already had accurate knowledge about the crime rate in their area, the less likely they were to believe statistics stating otherwise.

Fear of crime has been found to be a by-product of consumption of prime-time TV, which often contains multiple news stories of violent crime (Romer, Jamieson & Aday, 2003). In addition to signaling “disorder” to local residents, media reports on the presence of unhoused homeless people may also influence perceptions of crime.


Report continues...

 

[iluvatar5150]

If things keep going the way they are, you won't be able to say that a few years from now.

That's unlikely. While I haven't seen our stats for petty crime, my city's murder rate has been dropping like a rock. We're on track for the lowest murder rate in something like 50 years.

 

[CoreyD]

Happening now:

View attachment 370782

An active shooter was reported at a church Sunday morning, Sept. 28, in Grand Blanc Township, police said.

The incident happened at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

There are multiple victims – it’s not clear how many – and the shooter is down, police said. The church is actively on fire.

Active shooter reported at Michigan church with multiple victims

Police said the church is actively on fire.

www.mlive.com

Wow. Satan is really whipped up. Revelation 12:12
My heart goes out to the victims.

 

[durangodawood]

Ecclesiastes 7:10 means it's unwise to sulk over how carefree childhood seemed compared to being an adult. Or to sulk over how much more energetic and vigorous I was in my 30s compared to my 60s.

Seriously? When people talk about "the old days" they are talking about the culture back then. Not their own bodies.

"Why were the old days better than these?"

 

[essentialsaltes]

Michigan church shooting suspect went on anti-LDS tirade, political candidate said​

When Burton City Council candidate Kris Johns heard that someone shot churchgoers and burned down the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Sept. 28 in nearby Grand Blanc, he said not once did he think it was the man he spoke to while canvassing less than a week prior who went on a tirade against the church and described Mormons as "the antichrist."

The man was outgoing, polite, and "extremely friendly," Johns said. And his animosity toward the church didn't seem violent, he said — “it was very much standard anti-LDS talking points that you would find on YouTube, TikTok, Facebook.”

The FBI has taken over the investigation as "targeted violence" after authorities say Sanford plowed his pickup truck that donned two American flags into the back of the small-town church, shot at the hundreds of worshippers inside, and burned the establishment down using gasoline. Improvised explosive devices were also found on scene, federal authorities confirmed.

Johns said Sanford asked him whether he believed in God. He responded, "yes." Johns said he's Christian and a member of Solid Rock Community Church in Burton.

He said Sanford began asking him open-ended questions about Mormonism, first asking how Johns felt about the religion. And the more questions Sanford asked on the topic, the more pointed they became, Johns said. He said Sanford asked him about the Mormon bible, the role Jesus plays in the religion, the history of the LDS church and Joseph Smith Jr., the founder of Mormonism and the LDS movement.

Their conversation never delved into politics or current events, Johns said — "there was no mention of anything right or left, blue or red.”

But Johns did say he spotted a Trump 2024 sign on the suspect's fence.

 

[Bradskii]

I'll lay good money on this killer being from a Christian home, raised Christian and was a regular at church at some point.

I should have made that bet...

 

[rjs330]

The language in and of itself is a stress. We can daily watch some prominent democrati call us all Nazis and fascists even after Charlie's death, they didn't ratchet down. The are still claiming ICE is the "gestapo" etc. It's not normal or sane in the first place, and it's not taking us to positive places no matter what way you slice it.

I definitely think that is a serious issue regarding political shootings. This one at this point doesn't seem to be political in nature but strictly mental health in nature. Which we all know is a problem in this country right now. We have got to have a better system in dealing with the mentally ill. And I have no issues at all with restricting gun access to them. I don't think it would be too difficult to determine which mental health disorders are the most dangerous ones. But I could be wrong.

 

[rjs330]

Why ever not? America is replete with political violence. It’s an outlier among developed nations.

Is it? I think England is going through a bit of it right now.

 

[Servus]

Seriously? When people talk about "the old days" they are talking about the culture back then. Not their own bodies.

"Why were the old days better than these?"

Solomon was old when he wrote Ecclesiastes. He's talking about old people becoming sedentary because they're to immersed in nostalgia. He's talking about himself dwelling upon his former glory leading to becoming despondent over his present life.

 

[durangodawood]

Solomon was old when he wrote Ecclesiastes. He's talking about old people becoming sedentary because they're to immersed in nostalgia. He's talking about himself dwelling upon his former glory leading to becoming despondent over his present life.

Well, youve probably studied this - while I havent.

Im just thinking of the typical way people perennially mythologize the olden days as morally better. Its like human nature, regardless of reality.

 

[Servus]

That's unlikely. While I haven't seen our stats for petty crime, my city's murder rate has been dropping like a rock. We're on track for the lowest murder rate in something like 50 years.

What does stores having to lock up merchandise have to do with murder?

 

[Servus]

Real Versus Perceived Crime Rates: Examining Causes of the Disconnect Between Fear and Reality

Americans are more fearful of crime than at any other point in the past two decades, even though crime rates are at the lowest point in close to 30 years. Previous literature has examined various causes of this exaggerated fear, ranging from gender differences to perceived neighborhood disorder as the cause. There have been multiple findings suggesting that neighborhood disorder plays a significant role in creating fear of crime. The presence of trash, unkempt lawns, and run-down properties lead people to believe crime is worse in their area than it actually is. This study examines fear of crime in association to the national robbery rate, media reporting on retail theft, and the presence of unsheltered homeless, as a proxy of perceived neighborhood disorder, to explore causes of the fear. This paper contributes to the previous literature by using new measures to examine potential causes of fear of crime, particularly finding that neighborhood disorder was most closely associated with trends in fear of crime.

Americans are more fearful of crime than at any point in more than two decades, with 78% of those polled asserting there is more crime than ever before (Ambrey, Fleming, & Manning, 2014; Gallup, 2023). In 2023, 40% of Americans reported being afraid to walk alone at night in their area, the highest such number in 30 years (Gallup, 2023). The number of Americans afraid of getting mugged has also jumped, going from 18% of adults being afraid of getting mugged in 2000 to 37% in 2023 (Gallup, 2023). Despite the spike in fear of crime, crime rates themselves have dropped significantly (Crime Data Explorer, 2022). Between 1993 and 2022, violent crime rates fell 70.5% (Crime Data Explorer, 2022). Property crimes have followed the same trend, dropping 71% from 1993 to 2022 (Crime Data Explorer, 2022; Pew, 2022). These trends suggest that overall crime rates have dropped to their lowest point in 30 years and yet fear of crime is hitting record highs (Gallup, 2023; Crime Data Explorer, 2022). What explains this disconnect between perception and reality?

One potential reason for this disconnect is that the memory of a traumatic event presented in the media is much more likely to stay in the public’s mind compared to objective statistics about crime rates. Ardananz, Corbacho, and Ruiz-Vega (2014) examined how people react when they are provided with the real rate of crime in their area. The authors found that the more someone believed they already had accurate knowledge about the crime rate in their area, the less likely they were to believe statistics stating otherwise.

Fear of crime has been found to be a by-product of consumption of prime-time TV, which often contains multiple news stories of violent crime (Romer, Jamieson & Aday, 2003). In addition to signaling “disorder” to local residents, media reports on the presence of unhoused homeless people may also influence perceptions of crime.


Report continues...

The left complain about shootings becoming too commonplace and how we need gun control more now than ever because of all of the increasing violence. While at the same time insisting crime is decreasing. So the next time those on the left rally for gun control because of the latest shooting, they should be reminded that they're firmly convinced that crime isn't a problem.

 

[durangodawood]

What does stores having to lock up merchandise have to do with murder?

You gave your example of things getting worse.
He gave his counter example of things getting better.

 

[durangodawood]

The left complain about shootings becoming too commonplace and how we need gun control more now than ever because of all of the increasing violence. While at the same time insisting crime is decreasing. So the next time those on the left rally for gun control because of the latest shooting, they should be reminded that they're firmly convinced that crime isn't a problem.

If murder is on the decline overall, does that mean that mass school shootings therefore arent important? I mean, thats what it sounds like youre saying.

 

[Servus]

You gave your example of things getting worse.
He gave his counter example of things getting better.

Then why is the left rallying so hard for gun control based on all the shootings taking place? It's pretty obvious how contradictory that is.

 

[Servus]

If murder is on the decline overall, does that mean that mass school shootings therefore arent important? I mean, thats what it sounds like youre saying.

I'm saying the left is being contradictory.

 

[durangodawood]

I'm saying the left is being contradictory.

a. murder rates have declined.
b. school shootings are still a problem, especially because of the setting.

I fail to see the contradiction. These are both true.

 

[rjs330]

b. school shootings are still a problem, especially because of the setting.

Have school shootings gone up or down or remained the same since 2000? Just curious.

 

[rjs330]

It feels like The majority of these kinds of mass shootings have a mental health componant to them. Some are pu t e mental health issues and some are political/mental health combinations.

We have a real mental.health problem in America. Getting guns out of the hands of the mentally ill is critical. Getting the mentally ill treatment, forced if necessary, is another critical component as well.

 

[Gene2memE]

Have school shootings gone up or down or remained the same since 2000? Just curious.

Up. Heavily so.

Although the increase in frequency is really only statistically significant since 2018.

See these two sources for data:

K-12 School Shooting Database

K-12 School Shooting Database documents when a gun is fired, brandished (with intent to harm), or bullet hits school property

k12ssdb.org

A Timeline of School Shootings Since Columbine

Since 2015, school shooting incidents in the U.S. have skyrocketed compared to previous decades. There were 332 shooting incidents at K-12 schools in 2024,

www.security.org