This morning study on Colossians and the Gospel

[SabbathBlessings]

Oh no, there are a lot of people who believe what is written in Scriptures over popular religious traditions of this world. That was the point of the Act's 2 reference. Had the first Church of God under His New and Prophesied High Priest adopted you and "HIM's" philosophy concerning the "Feasts of the Lord", they would not have been gathered on God's Holy Feast, convinced instead that these feasts were "Against them", "Nailed to the Cross". But even a novice can see that they didn't adopt the philosophy you and Him are promoting. That they counted the Sabbaths correctly so as to be gathered together on God's Holy Feast. And as a result, God gave them His Holy Spirit. This is simply undeniable Biblical Truth. It doesn't matter if others believe it or not, it is still the truth. If you think it isn't, then please make your case and show me. But through scriptures, not traditions of men.

I posted the parts of God's Word that you omitted. I'm not sure why you omitted them, but when a person considers more of what God says, their understanding changes. You are free to consider the parts of the Scriptures that I posted that you didn't find worthy of posting, and engage in honest discussions about them, including answering questions and asking questions. Or you can continue to promote a religious philosophy that these omitted verses bring question to.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. I am simply posting and discussing what is written.




Wow, I guess perhaps you didn't read my post. Those who trusted God and Yielded himself to Him, are promised blessing. Those who turned away from God and teach the religious philosophies and traditions of men are promised curses. The Law was a Witness against the Latter, but not the Former. That is what the Scriptures you posted said. Are you denying that?
, Bible.

You and "Him" are trying to promote a philosophy that preaches these same "Feasts" were against Paul and the Church of God.

Now I know there existed in the religions of that time, "Handwritten Ordinances" that were "Against Paul and the Church of God" and even Jesus, as it was these same "ordinances" that condemned Jesus to death. But according to Scriptures, these ordinances were not from God as throughout the entire Bible, men who turned to God in obedience were blessed, not cursed.



This is true. If you only consider this one sentence from God as truth, and separate it from all of the Other Word's of God, even the next sentence in His Message and refuse to continue reading His instruction, you can make this case.

This tactic is also very popular in the religious system of this world. Even Eve was placed in a world where this tactic was used. As it is written:

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

And if I read God's Word I find this sentence:

Gen. 2: 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

So there you are. This is God's Word confirming that the serpent is right according to what God said, and there it is for all the world to see. Adam and Eve were Commanded "BY GOD" that they may freely eat of every "Tree of the garden".

But when a person reads the very next verse, the entire message changes.

I'm surprised that you are so zealous to believe one sentence of God as truth, but refuse to accept the very next sentence as truth.

Nevertheless, these discussions about what is actually written in scriptures, are good to have, in my view.

You take care as well.

I do not believe we can reason as you still never understood my initial post, added things I never said or even indicated and went off conjecture, so best to move on and agree to disagree. Be well.

 

[HIM]

although it is a popular religious philosophy

That is as far as I got. I see you can’t refrain or don’t care. Regardless, Take care

 

[Studyman]

That is as far as I got. I see you can’t refrain or don’t care. Regardless, Take care

That is Fascinating "Him".

The philosophy you promoted, that God's Feasts and Judgments "are against" those who HE commanded to obey them, is the oldest and most prominent and popular religious philosophy ever promoted in this world God placed us in. The very first self proclaimed "minister of righteousness" that existed in Adam and Eve's time, taught the exact same thing. That as long as Eve walked in obedience to God's judgments, she would remain blind and ignorant. And only by rejecting God's Judgments, can she be free from the "Yoke of Bondage" the blindness and ignorance God's Law causes for those who place their trust in HIM.. Why? Because according this world's religious system, God's judgments are against men.

It's the first and oldest "false teaching" that exists in this world. Why else would God have it exposed for us in the first 3 chapters of the Bible, if not for us to "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

It's almost narcissistic that you actually believe with such zeal, that you are the first preacher that has adopted this philosophy. And now, because I have pointed this undeniable Biblical Truth out to you, that your religious philosophy has existed long before you were even born, you are all offended, and demand that I stop telling the truth about it. And refuse to even address the Scriptures and the questions posed to you, instead, you throw a fit, call me names, picked up your toys and stomped out of the room.

And of course, it's all my fault.

Nevertheless, if the Feasts of the Lord and the Judgments of God were against Peter and the Body of Christ, as you promoted, then why did the First Church of God under His New High Priest, the Lord's Christ, observe Feast of Unleavened bread, and count the Sabbaths correctly so as to be gathered on Pentecost, according to the commandment? Receiving the Holy Spirit of God, that Peter says God gives those who obey HIM, completely flies in the face of this popular religious philosophy, that God's ordinances were against Paul and the body of Christ.

These are legitimate challenges and questions about the teaching of this world's religions, and I am instructed to discern, and test them to see if they are "Wrought in God or not.

I won't stop pointing these things out, asking questions about them, seeking honest open examinations and discussions about them.

You are free to behave in any manner you want or refuse to engage in a biblical discussion if you want, You can even blame me for your behavior, which is also a popular behavior shown to us in the first 3 chapters of the Bible.

I'm OK with that.

You take care as well, "Him".

 

[HIM]

That is Fascinating "Him".

The philosophy you promoted

Again that is as far as I got. Stop saying things like this and I will more than happily discuss this out with you

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Again that is as far as I got. Stop saying things like this and I will more than happily discuss this out with you

He accused both of us as saying the feasts days were against those who He commanded them to, which is not at all what you or I said. He missed the context completely.

The feasts days always pointed to Jesus and His great sacrifice. Animal sacrifices were AGAINST man (fleshy ordinances Heb9:10 Col 2:16 that Moses handwrote in a book) because they could never take away their sins why the feast days, animal sacrifices etc. were shadows pointing to the great Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. These were all added after sin and the fall of man.

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [a]substance is of Christ.

10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

​

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[Studyman]

Again that is as far as I got. Stop saying things like this and I will more than happily discuss this out with you

Yes, that is the same message Peter received from the mainstream preachers of his time. Perhaps if those preachers in Acts 5 had considered the Words of the Scriptures, the Gospel of Christ that Peter was teaching, they might have repented, turned to God and brought forth works worthy of repentance.

 

[HIM]

Yes, that is the same message Peter received from the mainstream preachers of his time. Perhaps if those preachers in Acts 5 had considered the Words of the Scriptures, the Gospel of Christ that Peter was teaching, they might have repented, turned to God and brought forth works worthy of repentance.

Not at all. They were rather combative, like you. I imagine you would get worse face to face.
Incidentally It is real easy to get one’s point across with out insulting innuendos. Try it please so we can have a productive conversation. Until then, bye bye.

 

[Studyman]

He accused both of us as saying the feasts days were against those who He commanded them to, which is not at all what you or I said. He missed the context completely.

Him's stated philosophy.

And because of the forgiveness that we now have in Christ, the context of chapter 2 when it mentions sabbaths, can't possibly be speaking of the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments, but the sabbaths that pertained to the ceremonies that were tied to the forgiveness mention in verse 2:13 in respect to the sacrificial system and judgments "that were against us" as verse 14 states, These were fulfilled in Christ, as were the Atonement, Passover, feast of Tabernacles and such. So the sabbaths tied to these holy days and their observance is not needed.

The Laws and Judgments of God are only against those who reject them, as it is written:

1 Tim. 1: 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Your teaching that the Judgments of God and His "Feasts of the Lord", were shadows of things yet to come for the First Church of God after Jesus ascended, (Acts 2) and were still "shadows of things yet to come" in Paul's time several years later in Colosse, but were somehow "Fulfilled" between Paul's time on earth, and my time on earth, is foolishness, and cannot be supported by scriptures at all. And certainly Paul didn't teach any such thing in Colossians.

SB's stated religious philosophy.

Which is everything BUT the Ten Commandments that Moses wrote in a book placed besides the ark as a WITNESS AGASINT. Deut 31:24-26 the context the laws that were contrary and against.

Your preaching that the Laws of God, other than the 10 Commandments, were against Paul and the Body of Christ is not true according to scriptures. God's Laws are not a witness against the "New man" "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness". But as the verse you refused to acknowledge states, the Book of the Law was a witness against;

26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against "thee". 27 For I know "thy rebellion", and "thy" stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, "ye" have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

In Colossians, Paul isn't addressing the rebellious and Stiff-necked, at least according to what he actually wrote.

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

It was these men that Paul was teaching, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments "of the world", and not after Christ." And Also, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

And also:

18 Let no man beguile you "of your reward" in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

These "Shadows" were not "Against" the Church of God that existed after Jesus ascended. In fact, because of these men's Faithful obedience to God, or as Paul calls it in Col. 2, their "voluntary humility and worshipping of angels,", they received from God His Holy Spirit, that God gives to every man who "Yields himself" a servant to obey God.

And yet you and Him are preaching that they were Against Peter, Paul and the Body of Christ.

It's right there in your own Bible, all you need is belief.

The feasts days always pointed to Jesus and His great sacrifice.

They pointed to a lot more than that. Passover is just the beginning of God's Salvation. 600,000 Israelites partook of the Passover, ate and drank of that Spiritual Rock (The Christ) that followed them, and yet all but 2 fell in the wilderness. Paul teaches the Faithful that these were specificall written for "our" admonition. These Scriptures mean something, God's Words mean something. What good is Passover without Feast of Unleavened bread? If Jesus doesn't return, we are all doomed. So the TRUTH is, that these "Feasts of the Lord" are shadows of things yet to come. They were in Jesus Time, they were in the church of God after Jesus ascended's time, they were in Paul's Time. This is simply undeniable biblical Truth. These Feasts were Given by God to His People to keep them and the generations that followed them, in remembrance of HIS Salvation, in a world filled with religions that hate Him.

Animal sacrifices were AGAINST man (fleshy ordinances Heb 9:10 Col 2:16 that Moses handwrote in a book) because they could never take away their sins why the feast days, animal sacrifices etc. were shadows pointing to the great Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. These were all added after sin and the fall of man.

These fleshy ordinances were God's Mercy shown to a rebellious and stiff-necked people, and were to be in place until the prophesied High Priest of God should come. God's Laws defining Holy, Clean, righteousness and Sin, came before Sin. The Temporary Law that covered man's sin until the True Lamb of God should Come, came after transgressions. Abraham had God's Laws, Judgments, Statutes and Commandments, but he never had the Temporary Laws requiring a man to bring an animal for his own sins, and kill it in front of a Levite Priest, before Forgiveness would be provided for. God didn't even give Israel these "works of the Law", concerning burnt offering and sacrifices for sin, until after the Golden Calf. At least, this is what the Spirit of Christ on God's Prophets teach.

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [a]substance is of Christ.

Yes, and they still are shadows of things to come, while this world's religious high days and traditions are shadows of nothing.

10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

That is true, they were to lead men to Christ, like they did David, Zacharias, Simeon, Shadrack and Anna, who believed and had the Faith of Christ before HE was even born.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

​

Yes, the Blood of animals was symbolic, and to be in place until the True Lamb of God should come.

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law),

This is all true, as it is written, "To obey is better than sacrifice".

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, (Blood of animals) that he may establish the second. (Blood of Christ) 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Absolutely. The Law and Prophets, or as Paul calls it, "The gospel of Christ" prophesied the end of the "Priesthood, "After the Order of Aaron" and the manner in which sins were forgiven under that Priesthood centuries before the Prophesied Messiah came. Moses even spoke of this Priest, telling Israel that they should listen to Him, or suffer God's Wrath.

So who was still promoting these sacrificial "Works of the Law" for the remission of sins? It wasn't God's Laws, because God already prophesied of the end of this priesthood covenant. And Jesus never shed the blood of even 1 animal for all those whose sins HE forgave, and HE was said to be 100% Sinless. And Zacharias and Simeon both understood this. And David prophesied of this, and Jeremiah prophesied of this.

So SB, please answer my question, "Whose law was still promoting animal sacrifices for remission of sins, after Jesus' Prophesied Ministry began"?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Him's stated philosophy.


The Laws and Judgments of God are only against those who reject them, as it is written:

1 Tim. 1: 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Your teaching that the Judgments of God and His "Feasts of the Lord", were shadows of things yet to come for the First Church of God after Jesus ascended, (Acts 2) and were still "shadows of things yet to come" in Paul's time several years later in Colosse, but were somehow "Fulfilled" between Paul's time on earth, and my time on earth, is foolishness, and cannot be supported by scriptures at all. And certainly Paul didn't teach any such thing in Colossians.

SB's stated religious philosophy.


Your preaching that the Laws of God, other than the 10 Commandments, were against Paul and the Body of Christ is not true according to scriptures. God's Laws are not a witness against the "New man" "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness". But as the verse you refused to acknowledge states, the Book of the Law was a witness against;

26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against "thee". 27 For I know "thy rebellion", and "thy" stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, "ye" have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

In Colossians, Paul isn't addressing the rebellious and Stiff-necked, at least according to what he actually wrote.

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

It was these men that Paul was teaching, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments "of the world", and not after Christ." And Also, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

And also:

18 Let no man beguile you "of your reward" in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

These "Shadows" were not "Against" the Church of God that existed after Jesus ascended. In fact, because of these men's Faithful obedience to God, or as Paul calls it in Col. 2, their "voluntary humility and worshipping of angels,", they received from God His Holy Spirit, that God gives to every man who "Yields himself" a servant to obey God.

And yet you and Him are preaching that they were Against Peter, Paul and the Body of Christ.

It's right there in your own Bible, all you need is belief.



They pointed to a lot more than that. Passover is just the beginning of God's Salvation. 600,000 Israelites partook of the Passover, ate and drank of that Spiritual Rock (The Christ) that followed them, and yet all but 2 fell in the wilderness. Paul teaches the Faithful that these were specificall written for "our" admonition. These Scriptures mean something, God's Words mean something. What good is Passover without Feast of Unleavened bread? If Jesus doesn't return, we are all doomed. So the TRUTH is, that these "Feasts of the Lord" are shadows of things yet to come. They were in Jesus Time, they were in the church of God after Jesus ascended's time, they were in Paul's Time. This is simply undeniable biblical Truth. These Feasts were Given by God to His People to keep them and the generations that followed them, in remembrance of HIS Salvation, in a world filled with religions that hate Him.



These fleshy ordinances were God's Mercy shown to a rebellious and stiff-necked people, and were to be in place until the prophesied High Priest of God should come. God's Laws defining Holy, Clean, righteousness and Sin, came before Sin. The Temporary Law that covered man's sin until the True Lamb of God should Come, came after transgressions. Abraham had God's Laws, Judgments, Statutes and Commandments, but he never had the Temporary Laws requiring a man to bring an animal for his own sins, and kill it in front of a Levite Priest, before Forgiveness would be provided for. God didn't even give Israel these "works of the Law", concerning burnt offering and sacrifices for sin, until after the Golden Calf. At least, this is what the Spirit of Christ on God's Prophets teach.



Yes, and they still are shadows of things to come, while this world's religious high days and traditions are shadows of nothing.

That is true, they were to lead men to Christ, like they did David, Zacharias, Simeon, Shadrack and Anna, who believed and had the Faith of Christ before HE was even born.


Yes, the Blood of animals was symbolic, and to be in place until the True Lamb of God should come.



This is all true, as it is written, "To obey is better than sacrifice".

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, (Blood of animals) that he may establish the second. (Blood of Christ) 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Absolutely. The Law and Prophets, or as Paul calls it, "The gospel of Christ" prophesied the end of the "Priesthood, "After the Order of Aaron" and the manner in which sins were forgiven under that Priesthood centuries before the Prophesied Messiah came. Moses even spoke of this Priest, telling Israel that they should listen to Him, or suffer God's Wrath.

So who was still promoting these sacrificial "Works of the Law" for the remission of sins? It wasn't God's Laws, because God already prophesied of the end of this priesthood covenant. And Jesus never shed the blood of even 1 animal for all those whose sins HE forgave, and HE was said to be 100% Sinless. And Zacharias and Simeon both understood this. And David prophesied of this, and Jeremiah prophesied of this.

So SB, please answer my question, "Whose law was still promoting animal sacrifices for remission of sins, after Jesus' Prophesied Ministry began"?

Context. I explained it in my very first post, yet you went off down a whole other path. Your argument is based on conjecture and trying to convince me a clear passage doesn’t mean what it clearly states.

Guess according to you Strong and KJB is wrong too

The KJV translates Strong's G1859 in the following manner: feast (26x), holy day (1x).
ἑορτή heortḗ, heh-or-tay'; of uncertain affinity; a festival:—feast, holyday.

Like I said, I'll let you be on your way, we cannot seem to reason together, especially when you never understood my POV in the first place.

 

[HIM]

@Soyeong and @Studyman the context starts in chapter one. Let Paul's own words summarize.

There is a hope, a joyful expectation that has been laid up in Heaven for us. vs 5. Which we heard in the truth of the Gospel. This joyful expectation is present with us to walk worthy of the Lord. Bearing fruit in every good work. And Increasing in the recognition of God. Being endued~ in all power, in accord with the mightiness of His *glory, into all endurance and patience with joy. Giving thanks to the Father. The One who has made and continues to make us competent, partakers of the inheritance of the saints, in light. Rescuing us out of the power of darkness. Transferring us into the kingdom of His Son of His love. In Whom we have deliverance, the remission, removal of the sins through His blood that are past. And through him all things consist, are held together, including us. For in Him we live, move and have our being. For we are Reconciled in the body of His flesh through His death to present us holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight through His resurrection: IF WE CONTINUE in the faith grounded and settled and not moved away from the hope (expectation) of the gospel. The expectation laid up in heaven for us. The mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope, expectation of glory, the MYSTERY to which Paul speaks. Which we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect, Holy, unblameable and unreprovable in and through Christ Jesus. Being rescued from the power of darkness being translated into the Kingdom, the Body of Christ, the Temple of God. Wherein we labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in us mightily.

That our hearts be comforted, knitted together in love. In full assurance of the understanding and the acknowledgment of the Mystery of God which is Christ in you the hope. joyful expectation of His glory. In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge so we are not beguiled by enticing words and that we remain steadfast in in the faith of Christ Jesus. In that we whom have received Christ, Christ in you, so walk ye in Him.

Rooted and built up in Him. Established in the faith. Rescued from the power of darkness. Translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son. Made competent to present us Holy, unblamable and unreprovable in His sight.

Therefore Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments, the first principles of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And we are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also we are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him being dead in our sins and the uncircumcision of our flesh, hath he quickened together with him, therefore we walk in newness of life. Wherein we labour, striving according to his working, which works in us mightily. Being endued with all power in accordance with the mightiness of His Glory in Christ Jesus.

Having been forgiven all trespasses; having made peace through the blood of his cross, reconciling all things unto himself the deliverance, the remission, removal of the sins through His blood. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances, the certificate of indebtedness. What we owed because of our sin according to the hand writing of ordinances, the certificate of indebtedness that Moses penned due to our sin. For this is that which was against us. And is that which was contrary to us. This He took out of the way, nailing it to his cross. Spoiling THESE principalities, that which was first established and it's power nailing it to the cross. Making a show of them openly. Therefore, because of what was just said, let no man, judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath, these which are of those handwriting of ordinances. That which was written because of our sin and therefore done away with at the cross. For we have been forgiven of all our trespasses. For they were a shadow of things to come, but the body, the church (vs.1:18,24) is of Christ.

 

[Studyman]

Not at all. They were rather combative, like you.

Telling someone they already saw the movie, or they already read the book or they already heard the popular saying, or they have already heard the religious philosophy is not being combative, in my understanding. Your post represented a perspective, a religious philosophy that I have heard and studied and discussed with others for over 30 years. It was simply telling you the truth. That's not being combative, it being truthful, in my view.

Calling someone a pompous idiot just because they told you they already heard of this philosophy you were promoting, "is" being combative. Do you really not know these things?

Why not just say the truth. "You are right Studyman, I had no cause to call you names and I shouldn't have done so, But I still "think" you are a pompous idiot because you dared questioned my teaching."

At least you would be honest and place the blame of your thoughts where they belongs truthfully. Isn't that the purpose of the Gospel in the first place? To be renewed in our minds?

I imagine you would get worse face to face.

I doubt that you would have the stones to call me a pompous idiot to my face. But my reaction would be the same. True or not, it just distracts from the challenges I made to the philosophy you are promoting, which I believe is the purpose of the childish name calling in the first place. Remember your own words, "We can never learn if we think we are learnt.". What good are they if you don't apply them to yourself first.

Incidentally It is real easy to get one’s point across with out insulting innuendos.

innuendo; "an allusive or oblique remark or hint, typically a suggestive or disparaging one".

Please explain how telling you that I have already heard and am very well aware of the religious philosophy you promoted in your post, a philosophy promoted by many sermons that I have read for years and years and years, is an "innuendo".

Do you really believe that you are the first preacher to promote a philosophy that God's Laws, even the least of them, are against mankind?

Try it please so we can have a productive conversation. Until then, bye bye.

It's your choice whether or not to engage in an honest discussion about religious philosophies or Biblical Truth. You can blame me for your choice not to engage when questioned, like Adam blamed Eve for his choices if you want. But to be honest, it's a choice we make based on the spirit that resides in us, not what "that other guy does".

Personally I don't care about the names you call me, or the conditions you place on me before you will engage in honest discussions. I am only interested in the Word of God, the Gospel of Christ that rebellious Israel and the Pharisees rejected, but Zacharias and Cornelius didn't.

Anytime you want to have an honest discussion and examination of Scriptures, I am happy to oblige.

 

[Studyman]

@Soyeong and @Studyman the context starts in chapter one. Let Paul's own words summarize.

I study in belief that the "Context" of every one of Paul's Epistles started with the Law and Prophets that he said he believed all that was written therein, that he called "The Gospel of Christ" in Romans 1. And his teaching to both Gentiles and Jews, that they both "should repent, turn to God, and bring forth works worthy of repentance."

I don't know how a man can understand Paul without this context.

There is a hope, a joyful expectation that has been laid up in Heaven for us. vs 5. Which we heard in the truth of the Gospel. This joyful expectation is present with us to walk "worthy of the Lord".

Paul was speaking to the Saints and faithful brethren in Col. 1. It seems important to know and understand who he was speaking to, in order to have the correct context. Here are Paul's own words that you didn't include.

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

So who are the Saints and Faithful Brethren, according to the New Testament?

Rev. 12: 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rom. 6: 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members (mouth, works, thoughts) as instruments of righteousness unto God.

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of God's) righteousness.

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

If a person doesn't know or refuses to accept who the Saints were, as defined by God in the Law and Prophets, Jesus and Paul, then they won't understand Paul's message in Colossians or Ephesians.

Paul is teaching and warning the Faithful Brethren not to be led away from the purpose of the Gospel.

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to "his working", which worketh in me mightily.

His warning continue in Col. 2:

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, "so walk ye in him": 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, (Of Jesus) as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments "of the world", and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

He is our perfect example of the perfect man, who lived by Every Word of God, obedient to His Laws, Commandments and Statutes knowing perfectly why God created them "for man".


And we are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also we are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in "putting off the body of the sins" of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

This whole epistle is a warning to this point about being and continuing in what Paul called "The faith". He is encouraging these Faithful men to continue in God's Goodness, and specifically to "Beware" of this world's religious philosophies, and the men who promote them. Because these religions "persecute" the Church of God, they create Laws and Ordinances that are "Against" the Faith. Jesus lived in this world. Jeremiah Lived in this world, Shadrack, Caleb, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Zacharias, Cornelius and now, after Paul's Conversion, he went from promoting the Ordinances that were against Peter and the Body of Christ, to being persecuted by the same Laws that demanded that Jesus should die. The same Laws that relegated repentant Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:", the same Laws that created the "Wall of Separation" Paul speaks to in his Epistle to the Ephesians.


12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, "being dead in your sins" and the uncircumcision of your flesh,

Wait a minute here. How are these faithful saints, men of God, "Still dead in their sins"? Whose Laws relegated these Colossians as "Dead in their sins and the "uncircumcision "of their Flesh"". They were already "Circumcised of heart", a circumcision made without hands and the "putting off of the body of sins". Whose "ordinances" relegated these Faithful Saints as "dead in their Sins"?

Not God's, but the philosophies, traditions and the commandments of men promoted by the religious system of this world that is at enmity with God.

hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (The SAME Ordinances that condemned Jesus to death, relegated repentant Colossians as " "being dead in your sins" and the uncircumcision of your flesh," in the exact same way the same ordinances relegated faithful Ephesians as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:"

And it was the laws and commandments of the same religion that called both Colossians and Ephesians "dead in their sins, and uncircumcision of their flesh.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by that "which is called the Circumcision" in the flesh made by hands;

Can you tell me who Paul is talking about here? Will you also preach that it was God's Laws that relegated the repentant Gentiles as "Dead in their sins and uncircumcision of their flesh"? Can you show me God's Laws or handwriting of ordinances that rejected the Non-Jew who "Joined himself to the Lord"?

Having been forgiven all trespasses; having made peace through the blood of his cross, reconciling all things "unto himself" the deliverance, the remission, removal of the sins through His blood. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances, "the certificate of indebtedness." that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Jesus lived in opposition to the ordinances and commandments of the mainstream religions of this world in His Time. It wasn't "God's Law" that condemned Jesus, it wasn't the ordinances of God that were against Jesus.

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers,

To believe your interpretation of these verses, I would have to believe that Paul is teaching it is God and His Instruction in Righteousness, that Jesus "Spoiled", when he just got through telling us that we are to "Beware" of the philosophies and traditions, not of GOD, as your preaching implies, but of the philosophies of the religious men of this world.

he made a shew of them openly,

Again, to believe this world's teaching of this Epistle, I would have to believe that Jesus made a Show of His Father, whose Words you promote, were against Him, Paul and the Body of Christ.

triumphing over them in it.

Again, to believe the interpretation you put forth, I would have to believe that Jesus Triumphed over God and His Commandments on the cross.

But that doesn't make any sense at all if you consider the rest of Paul's teaching. These men were faithful, obedient servants to God, which was only their reasonable service. They were rejected by the mainstream religions of their time, but had been Faithful to God, just as Jesus was Faithful to God. Paul continues to encourage them.

16 Let no man therefore judge "you", (The Faithful obedient men who had Yielded themselves to God) in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

And of course he told them not to let any man judge them, knowing that this world's religions will judge, belittle and mock anyone who would honor God in His Holy Feasts, and he was only furthering the teaching of Jesus who told them to hear Moses, and observe and do all that he instructed, just don't be like the hypocrites who professed to know God, but promoted commandments and traditions of men. Why did Paul encourage them to continue in the "Feasts", other than Jesus telling men to live by every word of God? Paul explains that as well.

17 Which are a shadow "of things to come"; but the body is of Christ.

Traditions, philosophies of men are shadows of nothing.

Now there are men who preach that all God's Feasts were fulfilled on the Cross. Of course this is foolishness, as Jesus has yet to return and if He doesn't return, that these "Shadows" were of nothing, no different than Halloween or day of the dead.

What we owed because of our sin according to the hand writing of ordinances, the certificate of indebtedness that Moses penned due to our sin.

First, there is no mention by Paul in either Ephesians or Colossians that preach or even imply the Moses or God penned the ordinances that were against Jesus, Peter, the first Church of God under His New High Priest, as they were gathered at Pentecost, nor Paul and the body of Christ in Colossians.

That is your philosophy, and it is also true, that it has been a popular religious philosophy that I have heard my whole life. I don't believe the Holy scriptures support your assumption, and Paul certainly didn't say it, although he could have, and would have in my view, if it were true.

For this is that which was against us. And is that which was contrary to us. This He took out of the way, nailing it to his cross. Spoiling THESE principalities, that which was first established and it's power nailing it to the cross. Making a show of them openly. Therefore, because of what was just said, let no man, judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath, these which are of those handwriting of ordinances.

That is not what Paul said at all. He told the Faithful not to let men judge them in their obedience. He confirms this in the verse you didn't post.

18 Let "no man" beguile you "of your reward in a voluntary humility" and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Then he warns them again about the commandments and traditions, not of God, but of men.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, (Which you preach are God's Judgments and Feasts) why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (That Jesus nailed to the Cross)

21(Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines "of men"?

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

You have taken these Scriptures completely out of context in order to promote that much of God's Laws are against men. Which coincidently is the very first deception ever recorded in Scripture.

 

[Studyman]

@HIM and SabbathBlessings

It seems prudent to point out an undeniable truth that I don't think either one of you consider, certainly not in the discussions above about Colossians or Ephesians. There is nothing wrong in pointing these things out in the hope of having a discussion about them. And there is no shame in learning something that was heretofore not considered or known. I am not promoting myself here, I am a nobody. Nevertheless, the following "context" is missing from your posts and I thought it the right thing, according to the teaching of the Jesus of the bible, to point this out. I hope you might do the study of the Holy Scriptures yourself, which Paul said was trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

From the very beginning of the Holy Scriptures, which I believe to be a very important part of the Armor of God that HE told us through Paul, to "put on", in order to resist the wiles of the devil, God has placed His creation into a world in which God's Word exists, and which also exists, the voice of another, who is not God. But is a voice "Contrary to God", and "Against God". It's entire goal is to turn men away from the Word of God. And how it does this, according to the very first recorded deception, is to "profess to know God", and even quote "Some" of God's Word in its goal to deceive the whole world.

In my understanding, this was necessary because God gave humans a free will. But they also must be taught that unless a person placed limitation or restrictions on this free will, the carnal, mortal mind with destroy itself and all those around it. This is why Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat of the tree of "Eternal Life", until they learned obedience to God who understands the importance of placing limitation of ones free will, for the good and well being of others. It should go without saying that God can do anything HE wants, as HE has free will, but chooses to place limitations of His Own Free will, for the good of others around Him. He doesn't "have" to be Merciful or Longsuffering, but HE places these limitations on Himself, for the good of His Creation.

When HE created mortal humans after His likeness, I believe HE is speaking to this "Free Will" that Adam and Eve had.

We can see the influence of this "other voice" from the very beginning. Cain and Able, Noah, the world at Abraham's Time. All these men knew of God and His Word, but were seduced into believing another. Israel's children were even seduced, and God sent them Moses to reinstate the Judgments, Commandments Statutes and Laws Abraham was given, and obeyed for his good and the good of those around him.

In each case, there were "other voices" who also professed to know God, but refused to accept what HE knew was needed by them to overcome in this world of beings with free will.

Caleb was threatened by the masses who succumbed to this "other voice". God sent Prophets who warned over and over and over and over about false teachers, men who preached to them, but HE didn't send. Religious men who, as the Prophet teaches, "say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you". Men who taught the "precepts of men". An entire world deceived by the "Other voice" who professes to know God.

But there was a New Priest prophesied, "after a different order". A Priest that was to be incorruptible. A Prophet like Moses, who God would give His Words to. The Faithful believers and examples of Faith in the OT waited for this savior in obedience to God, and were tortured and killed for it, by men who "professed to know God".

The very last book in the Holy Scriptures, at least since about 1610, is Malachi, that is still furthering this truth of the world we were placed in. Explaining how even the temporary Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi, to convince men to trust God and adopt "HIS" limitation on their free will, became corrupted.

Mal. 2: 4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (Ex. 32:26) 6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did "turn many away from iniquity". 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, (finding fault with them) saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept "my ways", but have been partial in the law.

The Last message I received from God though His Prophets follows.

Mal. 4: 4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

What you guys are not taught to consider, is that John the Baptist and Jesus was placed in the same world. And the same world was deceived, convinced god's Laws were against them, just as it was in Malachi's time.

Matt. 2: 13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Matt. 3: 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O "generation of vipers", who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Same world, same "other voice". Surely you get the point. Jesus fought against these preachers His whole life. Not because they obeyed God's Word, but because they rejected God's Word, like Adam and Cain and Sodom and the rebellious children of Israel and the wicked Kings, and on and on and on.

How many time did Jesus address the mainstream preachers of His Time? How much of HIS Teaching was geared towards exposing the hypocrisy and wickedness of the Priests of the Temple in the City of God?

Paul, being zealous for the commandments and traditions of men this worldly religion promoted, persecuted God's Church, just as the wicked Kings of Israel did to the Faithful, and Cain did to Abel.

Jesus and Paul battled, Not God's Laws, Judgments and Statutes, but the commandments and judgments of men that "professed to know God".

When Jesus was asked about the end times and what to look out for, well here, let me post His Words.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (He didn't warn about God or His laws and judgments deceiving us) 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

He didn't warn about the "commandments contained of God's Ordinances", He didn't warn about the "handwriting of ordnances of God" that was against them in your philosophy, HE specifically warned about being deceived by "other voices" who profess to know God.

Paul fought against these mainstream religions of the world God placed him in, every day after his conversion. Their philosophy, their ordinances and laws, were against him and against the church of God, just as they had been since the very first "other voice" who professed to God, deceived Eve. He didn't fight against God's Law, He fought against the principalities and powers of darkness. It was the Pharisees Law that condemned Jesus and Stephen to death. Just as it was their fathers law that condemned the prophets God sent to them.

But in your sermon on Colossians, all of this is ignored, not even considered in the "context" of your religious opinion.

Because of you omitting of these extremely important Biblical Truths, that this world's religions have always united in their teaching that God's Judgments and Feasts and commandments are "against men", you incorrectly identify the author of the "Handwriting of Ordinances" that Paul said was against Jesus, Paul and the Body of Christ, claiming it was God, when it wasn't. This world's religions do the same When Peter says in acts 15, "why tempt you God to place a Yoke on the necks of the disciples that they or their fathers couldn't bear". The promoters of this world's religions teach the Yoke is God's Laws that they claim, and have always claimed "were against them".

When Paul speaks about the "wall of Separation" that divided faithful Jews from faithful Gentiles, this world's religions say it was God's Laws that caused the separation. When Paul says in Colossians and Ephesians that faithful Gentiles were considered dead in their sins and uncircumcision of their flesh, and related as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world", this world's religions say it was God's Laws that was against them.

I could go on and on. We disagree here because Jesus said men are to live by "Every Word" of God, and I believe Him, but you guys have been convinced by the "other voice" that some of God's Word are against you and contrary to you, therefore you shouldn't live by them. And these laws vary according to the religious sect or business being adopted. Some teach the Sabbath Commandment of God is against them, but not the sabbath of Constantine. Some believe creating an image of God in the likeness of some random extremely handsome man with long flowing hair is righteousness, and therefore God's Law against creating image of God in the likeness of men is against them. Some believe God's Law defining what is food and what is not, is against them and contrary to them.

You guys believe the Feasts of the Lord are against you and were abolished, that was your stated philosophy, which is and has always been a popular philosophy in this world..

For me, a no body, I expect nothing different. Jesus said it would be as in the days of Noah. Paul said this world is at enmity with God. Jesus told me not to be like those who frequent the man-made shrines of worship, doing their alms, and "for a shew make long prayers" to be seen of men.

But to promote that all the sudden, in Colossians, all this has changed or no longer relevant, the children of the devil no longer ruled over Jerusalem, and now for the first time in the entire Bible, it wasn't the promoters of this world's religions that Jesus exposed, whose philosophies and ordinances were against the Faithful, but God's Laws, it doesn't make any sense.

If a man considers the history of the Bible, and the world in which Jesus and Paul were placed in, as part of the "Context" when studying Paul's Letters, a different understanding is reached.

It seems prudent to offer to have an honest discussion about these things, as Jesus did to the mainstream preachers of His Time. But they refused to be corrected, as did Cain.

There is truly nothing new under the sun, in the world God placed me in.

I hope in the private confines of home, when no one is looking, you guys might consider looking into these things.

 

[Studyman]

Saying things like "you have not considered" on something we never discussed, is basically telling me you can read my mind, thoughts and is basically saying you are like God because only He knows the thoughts and minds of strangers on the Internet.

Thank you for another spirit filled and thoughtful reply.

And for the record, if you read what is actually written in my post, "I don't think either one of you consider", I then go on to explain why your posts, which is all I know about you, have shown me about your thoughts and minds. Perhaps answering questions that others ask you, or addressing the scriptures you leave off of the messages of God you are referencing, might give others a better understanding of the philosophy you volunteered to promote.

I am open for you to show me in any of your posts, where you considered these things in your stated religious philosophy. I might have missed them, and if I did, please show me so I can be corrected.

Thank you.