Has Kirk's Death Prompted You?

[Hazelelponi]

Wow. I did not know that. That is sad.

It's a definite loss to us all. He was such a blessing for the time we had him.

He's my age, that's freaky. Too young, though God knows I feel old these days. Makes me wonder what God is doing. He's taking the giants.

Thanks for sharing the video, yes I basically agree with Kirk's assessment of the death penalty. I'm a proponent of it myself - it is societal self defense. You can't allow someone who doesn't value human life teaching your children, for example.

 

[Michie]

That's a ridiculous accusation. My faith informs my politics - not the other way around If not for my Christian beliefs I would not hold the worldview I hold and thereby would not vote the way I do. To accuse people blindly is inherently unfair and accusatory without evidence.

To pretend our Christian ethics don't inform our politics is to ignore truth. Because Charlie Kirk was outspoken as to his personal political positions as wellas his faith, politics will come up in any discussion about Charlie Kirk.

Voddie Baucham died the other day if you prefer, he spoke a little less about politics. He's always been one of my favorite Pastors.

I posted about Voddie Bachman so I’m aware. My statement was not meant to be a blanket statement but there are many that do let politics inform their faith. We see it all the time. So it is not a ridiculous thing to say. Politicization of one’s faith usually produces results that can corrupt the faith and moral standards. I’m not the first to observe it.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I'm not American, but until Mr. Kirk was murdered I'd never heard of him.

I doubt if he had a significant overseas following, and I think would mostly have appealed to Republican voters and conservative Christians in the USA.

The actual statistics might say otherwise, but that's my suspicion.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I posted about Voddie Bachman so I’m aware. My statement was not meant to be a blanket statement but there are many that do let politics inform their faith. We see it all the time. So it is not a ridiculous thing to say. Politicization of one’s faith usually produces results that can corrupt the faith and moral standards. I’m not the first to observe it.

It's always been blanket statement's about people like Charlie Kirk who decided you know what, my faith does inform my politics and I'm not going to be ashamed of it anymore.

As for the bad morals of politicians influencing society - it's the bad morals of any public figure, from the musician to the spoiled daughter of the wealthy hotel chain owner always in the tabloids it all has the potential to influence people so maybe instead of making blanket statement's we should be supportive of Christians being in the public spaces to be the best influence they can be. Imperfect or not it's better than the alternative.

You can't not politicize your faith, as our faith informs what we support in the society we live in, and what we will oppose. Christians disappearing from the public spaces was not positive for our society. It's now running completely amok because those with active morals were afraid to stand on themd and people devoid of morals took over and became the only influence people ever heard.

 

[Michie]

It's always been blanket statement's about people like Charlie Kirk who decided you know what, my faith does inform my politics and I'm not going to be ashamed of it anymore.

As for the bad morals of politicians influencing society - it's the bad morals of any public figure, from the musician to the spoiled daughter of the wealthy hotel chain owner always in the tabloids it all has the potential to influence people so maybe instead of making blanket statement's we should be supportive of Christians being in the public spaces to be the best influence they can be. Imperfect or not it's better than the alternative.

You can't not politicize your faith, as our faith informs what we support in the society we live in, and what we will oppose. Christians sisappearing from the public spaces was not positive for our society. It's now running completely amok because those with active morals were afraid to stand on them.

I’m talking about people that follow politics to the point they let it compromise their faith. Not Charlie Kirk or politicians in the public eye. Faith should inform politics. Not the other way around.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I’m talking about people that follow politics. Not Charlie Kirk or politicians in the public eye. Faith should inform politics. Not the other way around.

Do you think Charlie Kirk didn't follow politics?

You do realize how small a minority there is which actually does follow politics? Charlie Kirk was definitely one of them.

When I say follow I mean someone who knows what all the issues are and knows who all the players are and stays very up to date on all the issues.

I don't know what you mean by following. Charlie Kirk was instrumental in the reelection of Donald Trump, and close with JD Vance. He was as much a part of the political spectrum as anyone though he wasn't himself seeking office, making him someone who followed politics.

I follow politics enough to literally not be surprised when wars happen because you can see the potential beforehand.

So I don't know what you mean by following. Staying well informed is essential to voting - I think, as did the founders I believe.

 

[Michie]

Do you think Charlie Kirk didn't follow politics?

You do realize how small a minority there is which actually does follow politics? Charlie Kirk was definitely one of them.

When I say follow I mean someone who knows what all the issues are and knows who all the players are and stays very up to date on all the issues.

I don't know what you mean by following. Charlie Kirk was instrumental in the reelection of Donald Trump, and close with JD Vance. He was as much a part of the political spectrum as anyone though he wasn't himself seeking office, making him someone who followed politics.

I follow politics enough to literally not be surprised when wars happen because you can see the potential beforehand.

So I don't know what you mean by following. Staying well informed is essential to voting - I think, as did the founders I believe.

Oh for Pete’s sake. I’m being perfectly clear on what I’m speaking about. People that let politics inform their faith. And yes it’s a thing. It happens. It’s been spoken of for years. If you want to be obtuse to debate for whatever reason, you are going to have to find someone else. What a time waster. I stand by what I said.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Oh for Pete’s sake. I’m being perfectly clear on what I’m speaking about. People that let politics inform their faith. And yes it’s a thing. It happens. It’s been spoken of for years. If you want to be obtuse to debate for whatever reason, you are going to have to find someone else. What a time waster. I stand by what I said.

I'm not being obtuse - the phrasing - which has been used for years to defame MAGA and claim their Christian faith false - is not in the least but clear. Just mildly insulting - it's why I pointed it out.

You are free to roll your eyes and I'm free to point out what you're saying about people who you don't know.

It should give you some pause in the future before insulting people again, but we all make our own decisions in life.

There's portions of MAGA that are not at all Christian (there's atheists and more, just Americas who are politically involved) and portions that very Christian are, but there's no call to insult the faith of MAGA Christians for being politically involved.

It is ridiculous to do so. There's Catholics your insulting too, not just Protestants

 

[Michie]

It's prompted me not to care anymore, they are clearly going to kill us no matter how nice and kind we are. So I don't care anymore about being kind and understood. Just about doing and saying what's right.

I think this might be a little more insulting. Who is going to kill us? Isn’t this quite the broad brush? Anyway, you might reconsider on your finger wagging.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think this might be a little more insulting. Who is going to kill us? Isn’t this quite the broad brush? Anyway, you might reconsider on your finger wagging.

I didn't start the finger waiving. I certainly didn't point at a bunch of Christians and say their faith was invalid and not in Christ because they were politically active.

"They" want us dead isn't pointing at a person or individual and calling them liars for calling them themselves Christian.

It's a nameless faceless group of people so full of hate they are willing to kill those who don't agree with them.

No one has to be in that group - and I'm certainly not claiming it's a group of hypocritically professing Christians that are in it which you also to belong to.

In other words, I wasn't finger pointing at people like you - while the opposite is not necessarily true as I, like Charlie Kirk, "follow" politics with some interest, though I'm not looking to make a career of it, and my faith is indeed in Christ and is not hypocritical just because I follow politics, it's my country, my grandkids have to live here too. It's not a lack of faith that makes the faithful interested in that. It's Christian stewardship.

 

[Michie]

I didn't start the finger waiving. I certainly didn't point at a bunch of Christians and say their faith was invalid and not in Christ because they were politically active.

"They" want us dead isn't pointing at a person or individual and calling them liars for calling them themselves Christian.

It's a nameless faceless group of people so full of hate they are willing to kill those who don't agree with them.

No one has to be in that group - and I'm certainly not claiming it's a group of hypocritically professing Christians that are in it.

In other words, I wasn't finger pointing at people like you - while the opposite is not necessarily true as I, like Charlie Kirk, "follow" politics with some interest, though I'm not looking to make a career of it, and my faith is indeed in Christ.

I never said your faith wasn’t in Christ. You chose to take offense when it was clear what I was talking about. But you continued to choose to take offense over some imaginary slight. I did not point out you, any political party, Protestants or Catholics like you did. I made a simple statement that there are people that let the politics inform their faith. And it’s true.

I think you woke up on the wrong side of the bed or you really are being obtuse. I hope you start having a better day.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I never said your faith wasn’t in Christ. You chose to take offense when it was clear what I was talking about

It's still clearly only clear to you.

I don't even criticize the faith of people on the left. You can counter specific beliefs - things that are seen as specific errors - but you don't attack people about their faith in God. It's too personal.

 

[Bob Crowley]

This reminds me of a comment that my old pastor made years ago that "People's politics often becomes their religion".

 

[Michie]

A rundown from AI:

While many people believe their faith should inform their politics, others are seen as letting politics take priority over their religious beliefs, a dynamic researchers call "politicized religion"
. This is reflected in the increasing partisan alignment of religious groups, with some prioritizing political goals over traditional religious principles.

The increasing role of partisan politics
In recent years, scholars have observed that American political polarization is increasingly driving religious affiliation, rather than the other way around.

• Secular Democrats: There is evidence that Democrats are increasingly moving away from religion due to an aversion to the Religious Right, choosing secular identities and principles instead.
• Politicized religion: Some scholars find that instead of religion guiding political views, people are adjusting their religious beliefs to align with their political priorities. One analysis found that Christians, for instance, sometimes project their own political views onto Jesus to make their political stance seem divinely sanctioned.

Ideological and group alignment
Certain religious groups have become heavily associated with a single political party, creating a clear ideological divide.

• Republican-leaning groups:Evangelical Protestants and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) show strong alignment with the Republican Party.
• Democrat-leaning groups:Historically Black Protestants, Jewish Americans, Hindus, atheists, and agnostics predominantly identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party.
• Internal division: Religious identity is not a uniform predictor of politics. For example, Hispanic Catholics tend to favor the Democratic Party, while White Catholics lean toward the Republican Party.

Christian nationalism and Project 2025
A prominent example of religion informing—or being co-opted by—a political agenda is the Christian nationalist movement, with groups openly prioritizing political goals.

• Project 2025: Organizations behind Project 2025, a blueprint for a future Republican administration, aim to impose a conservative Christian worldview on all of society by using the state to enforce a singular conception of "the good".
• Imposing religious values: As part of this effort, Project 2025 plans to use Christian nationalist teachings to drive government policy on issues like reproductive and LGBTQ+ rights, seeking to dismantle the separation of church and state. It views constitutional rights as "God-given" and aims to codify specific Christian teachings into federal law.
• Extreme rhetoric: Leaders connected to Project 2025 have engaged in aggressive rhetoric, framing political disagreements in religious terms and indicating a willingness to fight those with opposing beliefs.

The consequences of politicized faith
The intersection of politics and faith can lead to negative societal and personal consequences.

• Division and intolerance: A politicized religious framework can align with populist and authoritarian agendas, leading to a rise in rancor and division within families and friendships.
• Loss of identity: When politics becomes an "idol" that supersedes faith, people may begin to view those with differing political opinions as opponents to be conquered rather than neighbors to be loved.
• Undermining democracy: The movement toward a religious autocracy threatens core democratic principles like religious freedom and respect for diversity, potentially leading to increased intolerance and discrimination

 

[Michie]

It's still clearly only clear to you.

I don't even criticize the faith of people on the left. You can counter specific beliefs - things that are seen as specific errors - but you don't attack people about their faith in God. It's too personal.

Nobody did.

 

[Michie]

This reminds me of a comment that my old pastor made years ago that "People's politics often becomes their religion".

Exactly. For some it does.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It's a nameless faceless group of people so full of hate they are willing to kill those who don't agree with them.

That is quite the dehumanized boogeyman. In actuality today we are probably talking about mental illness on the Left, Right, and in the middle. Did “they” kill Melissa Hortman?

Now who killed JFK, RFK, MLK and Ghandi and why is another can of worms.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Whether you were a fan of Charlie's or not, has this prompted you to be more outspoken?

To not stand up against unrighteousness is to be overrun by the enemies of mankind, i.e. the deceptions of devils in their slaves

Of course to fight such battles we should be acutely aware that the battles take place in us as well. A harder place to peer. Other people don't know or realize they are slaves. God has not made them aware. God can make all aware and uses us to both put down and lift up.

We've been given dominion but not eradication. We therefore put down in ourselves first. Then their issues should seem both insignificant and obvious to us. We meet the enemies and put them and their works down, and proclaim dominion and liberty to the captives and pray for their division, that only God in Christ is capable of revealing and granting.

I have not changed my witnessing, which i do with most everyone I meet. God seems to always open the door to do it, effective and quickly. Just snatch them up and assume them in, often kicking and screaming, the enemies wailing their torrents of lies within them. But that will not stop the call.

Kirk's murder was a horrible act of Satan in mankind. Happens every day throughout this wicked world. God calls us up, sooner or later regardless, a n d we are only then released from our battles

God Speed to all who heed the call, whether in presence or in truth.

Isaiah 49:9
That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves

The assumption track which does not demand a choice:

Everyone who loves knows God and is born of God. 1 John 4:7

Touch God there, in them. They will see whether you see it or not. It sticks in the jailhouse lock and God will meet them there. That's his job. Wipe out the barrier completely because there is nothing stopping us. Nothing

 

[Hazelelponi]

Nobody did.

Good to know. It helps to explain what you mean by things when they indicate they don't have a clue what you're talking about.

As a besides, the definition I use for the term "following" politics is the definition that's been in use my entire life in the political arena. It helps to use terms the same way everyone else does to start with.

 

[Michie]

Good to know. It helps to explain what you mean by things when they indicate they don't have a clue what you're talking about.

As a besides, the definition I use for the term "following" politics is the definition that's been in use my entire life in the political arena. It helps to use terms the same way everyone else does to start with.

Well speaking of insults! Lol!

I don’t care what your definition of following politics is. I made myself clear in what I meant. Keep talking…it’s quite revealing.