Citing Charlie Kirk murder, Tennessee pastor demands removal of 'Hate Has No Home' signs

[RileyG]

That’s exactly it.

So people in Western Europe don't generally discuss religion amongst themselves? If I'm following ok?

 

[Larniavc]

So people in Western Europe don't generally discuss religion amongst themselves? If I'm following ok?

Certainly not in the UK. The only time I have ever discussed religion in any context outside of a church or Religious Education at school is online message boards.

I’m talking about general conversation like at work or in a social setting. I’ve no doubt that religious folks talk about it in church. But even that has limits; my wife sings in the village choir (which has a high proportion of religious folks) and apart from saying God Bless a lot no one has ever talked about God to her; they are there for singing not proselytising.

 

[Larniavc]

So people in Western Europe don't generally discuss religion amongst themselves? If I'm following ok?

Certainly not in the UK. The only time I have ever discussed religion in any context outside of a church or Religious Education at school is online message boards.

I’m talking about general conversation like at work or in a social setting. I’ve no doubt that religious folks talk about it in church. But even that has limits; my wife sings in the village choir (which has a high proportion of religious folks) and apart from saying God Bless a lot no one has ever talked about God to her; they are there for singing not proselytising.

 

[rjs330]

So people in Western Europe don't generally discuss religion amongst themselves? If I'm following ok?

Western Europe has completely bailed on God. They are not religious at all and reject it. Thats why they don't talk about it, they don't want to hear it. Its a shame. A great land that used to have a strong religious leaning has abandoned it. They need to hear the gospel more than ever for Europe has become the lost. Its NEVER impolite to talk about Jesus and what he's done.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Did I say that it was true?

The signage I provided example of are suggesting it's true.

If someone puts up a "pro-Family" sign in the yard, and on the sign are also the emblems for the NRA, Moms for Liberty, and Family Research Council... that person is clearly making a statement about which positions they view as "mandatory" for one to avoid the pejorative label of "anti-Family"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

No they are not. They are saying ‘all these folks are welcome here; there is no hate here’.

But they're listing organizations and activism movements. Organizations aren't people -- contrary to what the Citizens United ruling would otherwise have people believe.

 

[Bradskii]

The signage I provided example of are suggesting it's true.

If someone puts up a "pro-Family" sign in the yard, and on the sign are also the emblems for the NRA, Moms for Liberty, and Family Research Council... that person is clearly making a statement about which positions they view as "mandatory" for one to avoid the pejorative label of "anti-Family"

Then they're just repeating the same fallacy as you made. I'm most definitely not a supporter of the NRA, Moms for Liberty or the Family Research Council. But I'm most definitely not anti family. In a happy marriage for well over 40 years, happy kids in stable marriages, happy grandkids...I'm the poster boy for Happy Families. But I hate what those groups stand for.

Yeah, I know. It must be confusing for so many people. But not you, because I've just explained it.

 

[Larniavc]

But they're listing organizations and activism movements.

Being LGBTQ+ isn’t an organisation; even if it was so what?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm most definitely not a supporter of the NRA, Moms for Liberty or the Family Research Council. But I'm most definitely not anti family.

And likewise, I'm not a supporter of BLM...but I'm most definitely not someone who hates Black people.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Being LGBTQ+ isn’t an organisation; even if it was so what?

But there is an activism movement associated with it, and many of the things being advocated for go beyond "basic human rights", and ones that a reasonable person could object to without being "hateful"

 

[Bradskii]

And likewise, I'm not a supporter of BLM...but I'm most definitely not someone who hates Black people.

Keep going. You've started to dismantle your own argument. Why stop now?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Keep going. You've started to dismantle your own argument. Why stop now?

I'm still not sure you're understanding the argument I made...it sounds like you're thinking that I was suggesting the opposite of what I was actually suggesting.

So, to be clear... my critique was that those signs people are tossing in their yards are saying "hate is not welcome here", and then including the symbolism and slogans from far-left movements are implying that "hate" = "not going along with every far-left cause/rallying cry".


We started talking past each other as some point here...

Attaching a noble-sounding premise to the most extreme partisan positions, and then acting as if the two are joined at the hip is the very thing I was critiquing.

 

[Bradskii]

So, to be clear... my critique was that those signs people are tossing in their yards are saying "hate is not welcome here", and then including the symbolism and slogans from far-left movements are implying that "hate" = "not going along with every far-left cause/rallying cry".

And I gave examples of people who think that's nonsense. Me being the prime example. And you just used yourself as another.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

And I gave examples of people who think that's nonsense. Me being the prime example. And you just used yourself as another.

That's because neither of us are representative of "The US progressive Left"

So the fact you or I don't fit that mold doesn't "dismantle" my argument.

There are people here in the US on the progressive wing that apply a social ruleset that suggests "if you don't sign on to the furthest left premises, that makes you guilty of hate"

...basically any initiative that's done in the name of advancement of a group deemed to be marginalized, if you voice any objection to it, you get the "why do you hate group XYZ?" treatment.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I'm still not sure you're understanding the argument I made...it sounds like you're thinking that I was suggesting the opposite of what I was actually suggesting.

So, to be clear... my critique was that those signs people are tossing in their yards are saying "hate is not welcome here", and then including the symbolism and slogans from far-left movements are implying that "hate" = "not going along with every far-left cause/rallying cry".


We started talking past each other as some point here...

Attaching a noble-sounding premise to the most extreme partisan positions, and then acting as if the two are joined at the hip is the very thing I was critiquing.

Since when is anti-racism "far left" ideology?

 

[Bradskii]

There are people here in the US on the progressive wing that apply a social ruleset that suggests "if you don't sign on to the furthest left premises, that makes you guilty of hate"

That's simply the interpretation that you prefer. Nothing more.

 

[Bradskii]

Since when is anti-racism "far left" ideology?

Maybe it's an ideology of 'the progressive wing'. Or 'the liberal elite'. I can't keep track of which of the umpteen little pigeon-holes I'm meant to occupy. But they're all in a big room with THEM on the door.

 

[Larniavc]

But there is an activism movement associated with it, and many of the things being advocated for go beyond "basic human rights", and ones that a reasonable person could object to without being "hateful"

Like what?

 

[rjs330]

Since when is anti-racism "far left" ideology?

Because "anti-racism" is a far left ideology. Anti-racism is not simy being against racism. That has been explained to us by the far left ideologues.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Since when is anti-racism "far left" ideology?

When it's specifically "power-fist/Antifa" style anti-racism (or BLM variety, where they're talking about dismantling capitalism)

...then it is far left.

These are the same types of conversations people had about anti-fascism/antifa a few years back.

They're out there waving the flags and using the symbols/slogans of an old German communist party, and then when people would critique them, it was the predictable insincere "what's wrong with opposing fascism?" rebuttal.