What do You Mean by Believe?

[Done222]

If you read it carefully, the Bible does not actually say that only Christians will have eternal life in Heaven.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jesus is the only way to the Father, but this does not tell us that we must be a Christian to go to the Father. It only tells us that those who go to the Father, will go there because of Christ.

According to John 3:16 we must believe in the Son of God to have everlasting life, but as Jordan Peterson might say, “what do you mean by God, and what do you mean by believe?”

Christians assume that a person must believe in Christianity. There must be repentance, but there must also be agreement with fundamental beliefs of the church.

A person who believes in a particular philosophy might say that they believe in the philosopher who developed the philosophy, The wife of the philosopher may say that she believes in him. Her statement of belief is a greater truth than the statements made by those who only believe in his philosophy. To truly believe in God, we should believe in who God is.

We see this very idea, two verses after John 3:16.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We must believe in the name of the Son of God. Surely that doesn’t simply mean believing in the name “Jesus”.

A person’s name represents their essence. When a person is somehow transformed, they will sometimes change their name because they are now a different person.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

God is absolute Righteousness greater than we can comprehend.

To believe in the name of God, we must believe in the essence of God which is righteousness. All good people believe in righteousness. That is what it means to be a good person. Perhaps that includes everyone, perhaps not, but all good people will have eternal life in Heaven because they believe in the name of the Son of God.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Saved from what? In the Bible, being saved often referred to being saved from something in this life.

Psalm 18:3 I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Jesus healed a blind man and told him that his faith had saved him, but the blind man was saved from a life of blindness. Every time the Bible talks of heaven, hell, judgment, or being saved it may be referring to judgment in this life which is called temporal judgment.

There are many interpretations of the Bible, all with some degree of Biblical support. It is noteworthy that the Bible can be interpreted to mean that Jesus will give eternal life to all good people on the Day of Judgment while our words and actions may still affect us in temporal judgment.

Luke 9:59-60 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Temporal judgment, heaven in this life, is for the living not the dead.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Repentance has to do with the kingdom of heaven, which is at hand, which is temporal judgment. Eternal Heaven is entirely a gift of Christ for all good people.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Believe in Jesus means to be live Him- how did Jesus live what did He teach. Rev14:12 1John2:6 1 Peter2:21-22 It always pains me when people say we are not to follow the example of Jesus or follow His teachings, which surprises me how many Christians believe and teach this.

Faith in Jesus means to hear His Word Rom 10:17 believe His Word, Jesus is His Word- He embodied it John 3:16 John1:1 and do His Word James 1:22, Rom3:31 Rev22:14

By contrast, unbelief means sin, rebellion and disobedience Heb3:7-19

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 Rom6:23 Isa59:2 which we must forsake our sins Pro 28:13 and walk a new life in Christ abiding in Him John 15:3-10, Rom 6:1-4 Why Jesus started His ministry with repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand (Heaven). Mat4:17 Sin is the transgression of God's laws 1John3:4 His version, James 2:11 Mat5:19-30 Exo20:1-17 Exo31:18 Rev15:5Rev 11:19 not what man changed most sadly follow instead Dan7:25

God bless!

 

[Hentenza]

In scripture the Son of God IS Jesus. And since Jesus is the Son of God then belief in Him is necessary for salvation. It’s pretty simple. No reason to complicate the reading of scripture as you have done.

 

[Done222]

In scripture the Son of God IS Jesus. And since Jesus is the Son of God then belief in Him is necessary for salvation. It’s pretty simple. No reason to complicate the reading of scripture as you have done.

I respect that belief, and it is what Christians have believed for many centuries, but it could turn out to be true that to believe in Jesus is to believe in His essence, not His teachings.

 

[Hentenza]

I respect that belief, and it is what Christians have believed for many centuries, but it could turn out to be true that to believe in Jesus is to believe in His essence, not His teachings.

To believe in Jesus IS to believe in His teachings. Why would you not believe in the teachings of the Son of God?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I respect that belief, and it is what Christians have believed for many centuries, but it could turn out to be true that to believe in Jesus is to believe in His essence, not His teachings.

Thats an oxymoron

Jesus addresses this:

Luke 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

And Paul says whoever we obey is who we serve, so if we are not obeying His voice through His word- whose voice are we replacing His word with?

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Done222]

To believe in Jesus IS to believe in His teachings. Why would you not believe in the teachings of the Son of God?

There is disagreement concerning the teachings of Christ. That is why forums like this one exist.

If you are correct many kind-hearted non-Christians will miss out on Heaven. This may be true. We should hope that I am correct, that God will redeem all love and destroy all evil. Even non-Christian, especially those who lived and died without ever hearing the name Jesus will have eternal life in Heaven if they are good people.

 

[Done222]

Thats an oxymoron

Jesus addresses this:

Luke 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

And Paul says whoever we obey is who we serve, so if we are not obeying His voice through His word- whose voice are we replacing His word with?

Rom 6:16 Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

As I said some references to heaven, judgment and being saved are referring to temporal judgment in this life.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Joh 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

Joh 15:4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
Joh 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
Joh 15:8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
Joh 15:9 "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1Jn 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1Jn 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As I said some references to heaven, judgment and being saved are referring to temporal judgment in this life.

Judgement is the last day.

John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

 

[Done222]

Exodus 21:23-25 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

It has been said that an eye for an eye makes the world blind. Perhaps God does not want us to execute retributive justice, but eye for an eye was repeated by God so there must be some meaning to it.

Leviticus 24:19-21 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again. And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Throughout the Old Testament there was punishment and reward, often collective, but executed in this life, prior to death and the resurrection.

The idea of resurrection and eternal judgment only emerged in Judaism not long before Christ. With Christianity the focus of judgment shifted entirely to eternal judgment.

Matthew 25:32-34 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

This passage is clearly talking about eternal judgment. Eternal judgment is pass or fail, thumbs up or thumbs down, some will have eternal Heaven and others will not.

Judgment in time, called temporal judgment, is measured. Measured meaning there is limited punishment for limited sin (eye for an eye), and limited reward for limited righteousness.

There is no reason to argue over which is true, eternal judgment or temporal judgment. There is no contradiction since both can be true. Both are clearly supported by the Bible, so both must be true. There is measured punishment and reward before the Day of Judgment, and eternal life is determined on the Day of Judgment. Every time the Bible speaks of heaven, hell, judgment or being “saved”, we must try to determine if it referring to eternal judgment or temporal judgment. This understanding resolves much of the confusion in the Bible concerning judgment.

There is evil in the world, and there is suffering. God responds to evil with the Day of Judgment at which time all evil will be destroyed. God responds to suffering with measured punishment and reward before the Day of Judgment. With temporal justice, all sin will be punished and all righteousness rewarded. God balances all books, and God destroys all evil.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

With temporal justice, all sin will be punished and all righteousness rewarded. God balances all books, and God destroys all evil.

This is eternal judgement. There is no coming back from this, there will be a time soon where all decisions we make on this earth will be sealed shortly before His Second Coming when we have all settled in our beliefs and can't be moved Rev 22:11

Two choices two different paths Rev 22:14-15

 

[Lukaris]

I believe the key to understand where the Lord ( & the prophets, apostles etc.) speak of condemnation of non believers like in John 3:16-21, John 3:36, John 5:22-30, Romans 3:19-26 etc.are stern warnings of the worst possible consequences of unbelief.

These consequences aren’t guaranteed to every individual who may not have known or understood properly the Lord Jesus Christ and the Gospel. I believe the ultimate meaning of this is said by the Lord towards His direct persecutors in John 15:24-25 etc. The Lord, I believe, is definitely not comparing such sinful unbelief to someone like a Japanese Shinto fisherman back in the ancient day or uninformed, confused etc. people to this day. Statements like Matthew 12:30-33, Luke 12:8-10 etc., I believe, apply here also. The parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37 is really interesting because the Lord is speaking of the great commandments ( which are the law & prophets really, see Matthew 7:12 in light of Matthew 7:1-12, Matthew 22:36-40 etc.) in relation to the humanity of a Samaritan (!). This all lines up with what St. Paul tells us about individuals within humanity vs overall humanity in Romans 2:6-16 etc ( I believe).

We have to be careful not to soft pedal warnings of condemnation either; these are real & serious. In Romans 3:19-26 St. Paul is speaking back on the issue of fallen humanity. A Christian has salvation by grace, through faith unto justification lived by faith in good works ( Ephesians 2:8-10 etc.). All a non Christian has is their works and a somber appearance at the judgement ( Revelation 20:11-15 etc.)although it seems clear some will be written in the book of life. We cannot judge ( Matthew 7:1-12) but we can pray for ourselves & our neighbor (1 Timothy 2:1-6 etc.).

 

[Done222]

The Law of God given to Moses is not cancelled or voided. There is an eye for an eye. There is measure punishment for sin.

There are many passages in the Bible that you are absolutely convinced are taking about eternal judgment, but if you read them carefully, they could be talking about temporal judgment which was a big thing in the Old Testament. How did it get completely erased in Christianity?

 

[Done222]

I believe the key to understand where the Lord ( & the prophets, apostles etc.) speak of condemnation of non believers like in John 3:16-21, John 3:36, John 5:22-30, Romans 3:19-26 etc.are stern warnings of the worst possible consequences of unbelief.

These consequences aren’t guaranteed to every individual who may not have known or understood properly the Lord Jesus Christ and the Gospel. I believe the ultimate meaning of this is said by the Lord towards His direct persecutors in John 15:24-25 etc. The Lord, I believe, is definitely not comparing such sinful unbelief to someone like a Japanese Shinto fisherman back in the ancient day or uninformed, confused etc. people to this day. Statements like Matthew 12:30-33 etc., I believe, apply here also. The parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37 is really interesting because the Lord is speaking of the great commandments ( which are the law & prophets really, see Matthew 7:12 in light of Matthew 7:1-12, Matthew 22:36-40 etc.) in relation to the humanity of a Samaritan (!). This all lines up with what St. Paul tells us about individuals within humanity vs overall humanity in Romans 2:6-16 etc ( I believe).

We have to be careful not to soft pedal warnings of condemnation either; these are real & serious. In Romans 3:19-26 St. Paul is speaking back on the issue of fallen humanity. A Christian has salvation by grace, through faith unto justification lived by faith in good works ( Ephesians 2:8-10 etc.). All a non Christian has is their works and a somber appearance at the judgement ( Revelation 20:11-15 etc.)although it seems clear some will be written in the book of life. We cannot judge ( Matthew 7:1-12) but we can pray for ourselves & our neighbor (1 Timothy 2:1-6 etc.).

Salvation by faith, but is that faith in the teachings of Christ, or faith in the essence of Christ?

 

[Hentenza]

The Law of God given to Moses is not cancelled or voided. There is an eye for an eye. There is measure punishment for sin.

There are many passages in the Bible that you are absolutely convinced are taking about eternal judgment, but if you read them carefully, they could be talking about temporal judgment which was a big thing in the Old Testament. How did it get completely erased in Christianity?

Universal reconciliation was declared anathema in the Fifth Ecumenical Council.

“If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration will take place of demons and impious men, let him be anathema.” Page 465 section IX.”

https://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0553-0553,_Concilium_Constantinopolitanum_II,_Documenta_Omnia_%5BSchaff%5D,_EN.pdf

Secondly, eternal actually does mean eternal in scripture. Yes, aionios does mean eternal not “for an age”.

 

[Lukaris]

Salvation by faith, but is that faith in the teachings of Christ, or faith in the essence of Christ?

Faith in Him as God and Savior ( the Son of God: The Father, Son, & Holy Spirit). We need to imitate ( as our individual situations permit in light of wealth, poverty, health etc.) this with thanksgiving for the gift of salvation ( 2 Corinthians 9:6-15 etc.).

 

[Hentenza]

There is disagreement concerning the teachings of Christ. That is why forums like this one exist.

If you are correct many kind-hearted non-Christians will miss out on Heaven. This may be true. We should hope that I am correct, that God will redeem all love and destroy all evil. Even non-Christian, especially those who lived and died without ever hearing the name Jesus will have eternal life in Heaven if they are good people.

You don’t get to decide who are good people. That is God’s purview since He knows the heart.

Secondly, Paul teaches that all are without excuse. God is for all but not all turn to God.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within th | New American Standard Bible - NA

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within th

bible.com

 

[timothyu]

A person’s name represents their essence. When a person is somehow transformed, they will sometimes change their name because they are now a different person.

Yet Christianity had no trouble changing His name to Jesus

 

[timothyu]

In scripture the Son of God IS Jesus. And since Jesus is the Son of God then belief in Him is necessary for salvation. It’s pretty simple. No reason to complicate the reading of scripture as you have done.

In scripture many sons of God were given control over nations. Jesus was given control over God's nation.

Deuteronomy 32: 8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.