Sept 23rd Rapture

[Romans 8]

A person who doesn't accept google AI because it gets its data from places like Reddit? Sure, I guess I'll be one of "those" people. Truth is important to me so I'll make sure I get info from correct sources.

I will try and find a better source tomorrow, I'm typing on my phone.

So telling them about the church leaving is somehow going to want them to change instead of the death and destruction of the trib? That... is so backwards...

No. Telling them about the rapture before it happens so that when they witness it, they might believe that Jesus is who He said He was, and have a second chance.

(sigh) That's not what I said... re-read again. Follow the thread here with what you said and what I said... the topic is that your argument that Jesus's death year has any relevance to when he specifically returns because the idea is that he "has" to at the 2,000 year mark. I'm saying that isn't scriptural.

Yes Delvianna, this is very scriptural. I'll give you verses tomorrow.

Yes, I'm tired of people also following false prophets too, hence why I replied. But you're free to follow them if you want, just as I'm free to post my opinion. Now that we've cleared that up....

As I've explained, Jesus uses the Jewish festivals to bring forth prophecy. The next item on the list the feast of trumpets. It doesn't mean it's going to happen, it means that it's high watch time. We don't know if Joshua is a false prophet or not, but even so, he could be correct and be a false prophet at the same time, but he's not important. To post here I needed to have a link, so I posted the article from the New York Times. There's much more evidence for a 2025 rapture I haven't listed yet.

 

[Delvianna]

I will try and find a better source tomorrow, I'm typing on my phone.

No. Telling them about the rapture before it happens so that when they witness it, they might believe that Jesus is who He said He was, and have a second chance.

Yes Delvianna, this is very scriptural. I'll give you verses tomorrow.

As I've explained, Jesus uses the Jewish festivals to bring forth prophecy. The next item on the list the feast of trumpets. It doesn't mean it's going to happen, it means that it's high watch time. We don't know if Joshua is a false prophet or not, but even so, he could be correct and be a false prophet at the same time, but he's not important. To post here I needed to have a link, so I posted the article from the New York Times. There's much more evidence for a 2025 rapture I haven't listed yet.

Ok then, I'll await your proof.

 

[Romans 8]

Ok then, I'll await your proof.

Proof isn't the word I would use. Evidence is more correct.

Try reading this for now...

https://www.faithwriters.com/article-details.php?id=206433

 

[Delvianna]

Proof isn't the word I would use. Evidence is more correct.

Try reading this for now...

https://www.faithwriters.com/article-details.php?id=206433

"While the case for “You do not know the day or the hour” being an actual Jewish idiom is not categorically proven," pure logic isn't evidence. I've read the argument years ago, I get the point and still... no proof means you can't state it as fact.

 

[Romans 8]

"While the case for “You do not know the day or the hour” being an actual Jewish idiom is not categorically proven," pure logic isn't evidence. I've read the argument years ago, I get the point and still... no proof means you can't state it as fact.

It may or may not be true but it's inconclusive. The guy that owns the website spent more time looking for the answer than I plan to. The literal translation of the verse is interesting, “Neither I nor the angels will make known or declare that day, only my father in Heaven will reveal or declare it.”

 

[Delvianna]

It may or may not be true but it's inconclusive. The guy that owns the website spent more time looking for the answer than I plan to. The literal translation of the verse is interesting, “Neither I nor the angels will make known or declare that day, only my father in Heaven will reveal or declare it.”

I don't even know where he gets that from.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Ohhhh...so they have to tell each other things? Because they don't know what the other one is thinking I guess?

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all divine but they are not identical. Obviously the infinite Trinity is beyond our understanding, but the Holy Spirit is the advocate who takes what is Christ's (which ultimately comes from the Father) and declares it to us.

What the Early Church Believed: Filioque

Not all Christians believe that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son." The evidence from the early Christians for this belief is overwhelming.

www.catholic.com

The Western Church commonly uses a version of the Nicene creed which has the Latin word filioque (“and the Son”) added after the declaration that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. Scripture reveals that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. The external relationships of the persons of the Trinity mirror their internal relationships. Just as the Father externally sent the Son into the world in time, the Son internally proceeds from the Father in the Trinity. Just as the Spirit is externally sent into the world by the Son as well as the Father (John 15:26, Acts 2:33), he internally proceeds from both Father and Son in the Trinity. This is why the Spirit is referred to as the Spirit of the Son (Gal. 4:6) and not just the Spirit of the Father (Matt. 10:20).

You've probably heard the story before about Augustine walking along a beach pondering the mystery of the Trinity.

The child by the seaside: a medieval story about Saint Augustine - Medievalists.net

While Augustine was working on his book On the Trinity, he was walking by the seaside one day, meditating on the difficult problem of how God could be three Persons at once. He came upon a little child.

www.medievalists.net

While Augustine was working on his book On the Trinity, he was walking by the seaside one day, meditating on the difficult problem of how God could be three Persons at once. He came upon a little child. The child had dug a little hole in the sand, and with a small spoon or seashell was scooping water from the sea into the small hole. Augustine watched him for a while and finally asked the child what he was doing. The child answered that he would scoop all the water from the sea and pour it into the little hole in the sand. ‘What?’ Augustine said. ‘That is impossible. Obviously, the sea is too large and the hole too small.’ ‘Indeed,’ said the child, ‘but I will sooner draw all the water from the sea and empty it into this hole than you will succeed in penetrating the mystery of the Holy Trinity with your limited understanding.’ Augustine turned away in amazement and when he looked back the child had disappeared.

We're not going to work it out, but for whatever reason God the Father has not declared the date of Christ's return even to Christ Himself.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not rubber stamps of each other.

 

[Richard T]

I reject all claims that Christ told anyone that he is returning on a specific date. I know this verse is used a lot but stay with me for a second...

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."- Matthew 24:36

This section is talking about the 2nd coming of Christ, not a rapture because the entire chapter is talking about his coming and answering the question about the end of the age. But the idea is, that if you knew his return date, you would know the rapture date and if you know the rapture date, you would know his return date. Adding/subtracting 7 years or even 3 1/2 years regardless of how long you think the tribulation period is, makes the other date easy to know.

Then you have "not even the angels of heaven" know... What makes humans think that WE would know and Gods own messengers don't? That makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever.

Then you have the concept of Jesus coming like a thief in the night, who announces their arrival and warns the home owner? It literally goes against the parable of the thief in Matthew 24. "Excuse me, I'm a thief but everyone, I'm coming on September 23rd, just so you guys know."

So I believe all these claims, is not from God because to me, they contradict scripture. And since we are called to test the spirits (1 John 4:1), this just looks like false prophecies to me. God would never contradict himself by saying one thing in scripture and doing another.

But could you know the week or in this case two days? Why would God bring it down to the "day and hour?" a far smaller measurement than if he had said month or year? I'm not saying this guy is right but if the only limit is day and hour then that sure leaves the door open for someone to get very close it if God wants that.

 

[Romans 8]

I don't even know where he gets that from.

View attachment 370351

Effectively, it's the same result.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all divine but they are not identical. Obviously the infinite Trinity is beyond our understanding, but the Holy Spirit is the advocate who takes what is Christ's (which ultimately comes from the Father) and declares it to us.

What the Early Church Believed: Filioque

Not all Christians believe that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son." The evidence from the early Christians for this belief is overwhelming.

www.catholic.com

You've probably heard the story before about Augustine walking along a beach pondering the mystery of the Trinity.

The child by the seaside: a medieval story about Saint Augustine - Medievalists.net

While Augustine was working on his book On the Trinity, he was walking by the seaside one day, meditating on the difficult problem of how God could be three Persons at once. He came upon a little child.

www.medievalists.net

We're not going to work it out, but for whatever reason God the Father has not declared the date of Christ's return even to Christ Himself.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not rubber stamps of each other.

Bob, I'm on board. My previous posts were merely satire.

Listen though, when Jesus told his disciples, "know one knows the day or hour", remember Jesus was in a limited physical body. At that time He did not know the day or the hour. But now He is risen at the right hand of the Father. I think He does know now, as the limitations have been removed.

 

[Romans 8]

I don't even know where he gets that from.

I don't want to get too involved with this verse for the simple reason that it's not even talking about the rapture, but rather, Jesus returning at the end of the tribulation. That's why it's referencing the

Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Matthew 24 is all about the Jews. It's not the rapture. If it were we wouldn't have so many scholars debating on whether the rapture is even true because it states here clearly that Jesus is coming back. Many people have been taught incorrectly that this is the rapture and so they argue this point blindly without fully investigating the verses. They're all about Israel.

The disciples have two questions for Jesus at the beginning of Chapter 24:

Matthew 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

The end of the age is Jesus' return at the end of the tribulation. Nothing to do with the rapture.

 

[Romans 8]

But could you know the week or in this case two days? Why would God bring it down to the "day and hour?" a far smaller measurement than if he had said month or year? I'm not saying this guy is right but if the only limit is day and hour then that sure leaves the door open for someone to get very close it if God wants that.

Yes. He wantsus to know when He's coming for His church. That's why He tells us to look up when the signs are here. And well, the signs are here. Jesus scolded the Pharisees for not knowing the season they were in when he returned the first time.

 

[Delvianna]

But could you know the week or in this case two days? Why would God bring it down to the "day and hour?" a far smaller measurement than if he had said month or year? I'm not saying this guy is right but if the only limit is day and hour then that sure leaves the door open for someone to get very close it if God wants that.

He gave us signs to look for already. Why must we know more than that?

 

[Richard T]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all divine but they are not identical. Obviously the infinite Trinity is beyond our understanding, but the Holy Spirit is the advocate who takes what is Christ's (which ultimately comes from the Father) and declares it to us.

What the Early Church Believed: Filioque

Not all Christians believe that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son." The evidence from the early Christians for this belief is overwhelming.

www.catholic.com

You've probably heard the story before about Augustine walking along a beach pondering the mystery of the Trinity.

The child by the seaside: a medieval story about Saint Augustine - Medievalists.net

While Augustine was working on his book On the Trinity, he was walking by the seaside one day, meditating on the difficult problem of how God could be three Persons at once. He came upon a little child.

www.medievalists.net

We're not going to work it out, but for whatever reason God the Father has not declared the date of Christ's return even to Christ Himself.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not rubber stamps of each other.

If I may ask a specific question that ties into your good post.

Since the Greek word is pneuma, and can be translated either Spirit or spirit, is it the mind of the (Holy) Spirit? Or as some claim it sould be translated mind of the (human) spirit with a small s.

I do believe in the trinity but this verse has always puzzled me. In my logic the intercession occurs with the Holy Spirit in conjuction with the human spirit. Otherwise, if the Holy Spirit is such an intercessor would not the will of God be more prominent? Or perhaps
Romans 8:27 (NASB)
27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

He gave us signs to look for already. Why must we know more than that?

We don't need more than that, just curious though.

 

[Bob Crowley]

If I may ask a specific question that ties into your good post.

Since the Greek word is pneuma, and can be translated either Spirit or spirit, is it the mind of the (Holy) Spirit? Or as some claim it sould be translated mind of the (human) spirit with a small s.

It depends if you're talking about "pneuma" in a Scriptural quote or the Nicene Creed.

In the Nicene Creed it specifically refers to the Holy Spirit, The emphasis of the whole creed was the Trinity (with Christ's divinity taking first place as it was the Arian heresy which prompted the Nicene Creed in the first place).

In Scripture we'd need to take context into account.

How the Spirit communicates with us is a mystery. We don't see tongues of fire unfortunately.

For my own part I usually find "divine" communication vague, and I often am not sure if the "message" is real or not, trustworthy or not.

A (Catholic) psychiatrist I was going to said to me that "(spiritual) communication is (nearly always) vague. If God came upon with His full presence He'd kill us."

Even my old pastor, who did seem to have a hotline to God, used to start his "predictions" with "It seems to me ...."

He was hedging his bets.

 

[Servus]

Today is the big day folks.

 

[Delvianna]

Today is the big day folks.

Aren't people including tomorrow too? I've heard both days.

 

[RileyG]

Anyone following this? Jesus is coming back in three days. No bites?

Pastor says vision told him Jesus will return to Earth this month

I doubt that.

 

[RileyG]

Today is the big day folks.

What happened in 2010? Or 2011? Or 2012?

Hmmmm….

 

[Servus]

What happened in 2010? Or 2011? Or 2012?

Hmmmm….

 

[Servus]

Aren't people including tomorrow too? I've heard both days.

Oh good, I was beginning to worry because I'm still here.