Charlie Kirk - Martyr or Political Activist?

[mindlight]

The death of Charlie Kirk shocked Americans and also people further afield across the world. He was a devout Christian out there sharing his faith. He was killed for his view that transsexuality is mentally delusional and a symptom of very unbiblical notions of what gender is. So since he was opposed to a culture of lies and wearing the mantle of faith when he was shot, does this make him a martyr? The question has to be considered from a more global perspective than just an American one as there is much wrong with the American culture.

How Should Pastors Respond to Charlie Kirk’s Assassination? - Christianity Today

After the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, how do pastors lead well in a fractured, reactive age? Here are five pastoral questions for this moment.

www.christianitytoday.com

The case for him being a martyr is that much of what he said reflects the deepest Christian teaching:

1. Jesus Christ is His Lord and Savior
2. A woman is what God made her; killing one's babies contradicts motherhood.
3. It is wrong to assert one's sexuality over one's relationship with God
4. Transsexuality is a symptom of a culture of lies and delusions about gender and identity.
5. The seven mountain vision of bringing Christianity into the center of society was a good and healthy one.
6. He spoke about a restoration of masculinity in an age that would prefer to emasculate men
7. What he said about the triumph of excellence and merit over quotas to remedy inequality
8. His bible based support of Israel alongside his opposition to the anti-Christian agenda of cultural Marxism

More controversial viewpoints:
1. He put a religious filter on immigration, saying people of false religions should not be allowed into the country. But he inconsistently applied this to Hispanic catholics, even though married to a catholic.
2. His views on COVID were unscientific and false
3. His view on the Ukraine war lacked geopolitical awareness of its significance to US national interest.
4. His view on global warming (that it was mainly not manmade) was scientifically false.
5. He and his family made considerable amounts of money out of his activism which provides questions about his actual motives.
6. He repeated the Big Lie that Trump peddled about the stolen election:

Charlie Kirk Denounces Man Asking About Killing People Ov...

The audience member at the Turning Points USA founder's tour openly called for people to be shot over false election voter fraud claims.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The death of Charlie Kirk shocked Americans and also people further afield across the world. He was a devout Christian out there sharing his faith. He was killed for his view that transsexuality is mentally delusional and a symptom of very unbiblical notions of what gender is. So since he was opposed to a culture of lies and wearing the mantle of faith when he was shot, does this make him a martyr? The question has to be considered from a more global perspective than just an American one as there is much wrong with the American culture.

How Should Pastors Respond to Charlie Kirk’s Assassination? - Christianity Today

After the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, how do pastors lead well in a fractured, reactive age? Here are five pastoral questions for this moment.

www.christianitytoday.com

The case for him being a martyr is that much of what he said reflects the deepest Christian teaching:

1. Jesus Christ is His Lord and Savior
2. A woman is what God made her; killing one's babies contradicts motherhood.
3. It is wrong to assert one's sexuality over one's relationship with God
4. Transsexuality is a symptom of a culture of lies and delusions about gender and identity.
5. The seven mountain vision of bringing Christianity into the center of society was a good and healthy one.
6. He spoke about a restoration of masculinity in an age that would prefer to emasculate men
7. What he said about the triumph of excellence and merit over quotas to remedy inequality
8. His bible based support of Israel alongside his opposition to the anti-Christian agenda of cultural Marxism

More controversial viewpoints:
1. He put a religious filter on immigration, saying people of false religions should not be allowed into the country. But he inconsistently applied this to Hispanic catholics, even though married to a catholic.
2. His views on COVID were unscientific and false
3. His view on the Ukraine war lacked geopolitical awareness of its significance to US national interest.
4. His view on global warming (that it was mainly not manmade) was scientifically false.
5. He and his family made considerable amounts of money out of his activism which provides questions about his actual motives.
6. He repeated the Big Lie that Trump peddled about the stolen election:

Charlie Kirk Denounces Man Asking About Killing People Ov...

The audience member at the Turning Points USA founder's tour openly called for people to be shot over false election voter fraud claims.

www.newsweek.com

If only we could speak freely about the Gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Thanks for sharing.
Be blessed.

 

[John G.]

More controversial viewpoints:
1. He put a religious filter on immigration, saying people of false religions should not be allowed into the country. But he inconsistently applied this to Hispanic catholics, even though married to a catholic.
2. His views on COVID were unscientific and false
3. His view on the Ukraine war lacked geopolitical awareness of its significance to US national interest.
4. His view on global warming (that it was mainly not manmade) was scientifically false.
5. He and his family made considerable amounts of money out of his activism which provides questions about his actual motives.
6. He repeated the Big Lie that Trump peddled about the stolen election:

A bit of inconsistency here: the author views these positions as controversial and in the same breath uses words like "false" and "lies" to describe them!

 

[eleos1954]

The death of Charlie Kirk shocked Americans and also people further afield across the world. He was a devout Christian out there sharing his faith. He was killed for his view that transsexuality is mentally delusional and a symptom of very unbiblical notions of what gender is. So since he was opposed to a culture of lies and wearing the mantle of faith when he was shot, does this make him a martyr? The question has to be considered from a more global perspective than just an American one as there is much wrong with the American culture.

How Should Pastors Respond to Charlie Kirk’s Assassination? - Christianity Today

After the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, how do pastors lead well in a fractured, reactive age? Here are five pastoral questions for this moment.

www.christianitytoday.com

The case for him being a martyr is that much of what he said reflects the deepest Christian teaching:

1. Jesus Christ is His Lord and Savior
2. A woman is what God made her; killing one's babies contradicts motherhood.
3. It is wrong to assert one's sexuality over one's relationship with God
4. Transsexuality is a symptom of a culture of lies and delusions about gender and identity.
5. The seven mountain vision of bringing Christianity into the center of society was a good and healthy one.
6. He spoke about a restoration of masculinity in an age that would prefer to emasculate men
7. What he said about the triumph of excellence and merit over quotas to remedy inequality
8. His bible based support of Israel alongside his opposition to the anti-Christian agenda of cultural Marxism

More controversial viewpoints:
1. He put a religious filter on immigration, saying people of false religions should not be allowed into the country. But he inconsistently applied this to Hispanic catholics, even though married to a catholic.
2. His views on COVID were unscientific and false
3. His view on the Ukraine war lacked geopolitical awareness of its significance to US national interest.
4. His view on global warming (that it was mainly not manmade) was scientifically false.
5. He and his family made considerable amounts of money out of his activism which provides questions about his actual motives.
6. He repeated the Big Lie that Trump peddled about the stolen election:

Charlie Kirk Denounces Man Asking About Killing People Ov...

The audience member at the Turning Points USA founder's tour openly called for people to be shot over false election voter fraud claims.

www.newsweek.com

Traditional vs. Modern Usage

• Traditional Definition:
  The word "martyr" means "witness". Historically, it referred to someone who voluntarily died rather than deny their religion.
  
  
• Modern Definition:
  While the religious aspect remains, the definition has broadened to include anyone who dies for a cause or their conscience.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

The death of Charlie Kirk shocked Americans and also people further afield across the world. He was a devout Christian out there sharing his faith. He was killed for his view that transsexuality is mentally delusional and a symptom of very unbiblical notions of what gender is. So since he was opposed to a culture of lies and wearing the mantle of faith when he was shot, does this make him a martyr? The question has to be considered from a more global perspective than just an American one as there is much wrong with the American culture.

How Should Pastors Respond to Charlie Kirk’s Assassination? - Christianity Today

After the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, how do pastors lead well in a fractured, reactive age? Here are five pastoral questions for this moment.

www.christianitytoday.com

The case for him being a martyr is that much of what he said reflects the deepest Christian teaching:

1. Jesus Christ is His Lord and Savior
2. A woman is what God made her; killing one's babies contradicts motherhood.
3. It is wrong to assert one's sexuality over one's relationship with God
4. Transsexuality is a symptom of a culture of lies and delusions about gender and identity.
5. The seven mountain vision of bringing Christianity into the center of society was a good and healthy one.
6. He spoke about a restoration of masculinity in an age that would prefer to emasculate men
7. What he said about the triumph of excellence and merit over quotas to remedy inequality
8. His bible based support of Israel alongside his opposition to the anti-Christian agenda of cultural Marxism

More controversial viewpoints:
1. He put a religious filter on immigration, saying people of false religions should not be allowed into the country. But he inconsistently applied this to Hispanic catholics, even though married to a catholic.
2. His views on COVID were unscientific and false
3. His view on the Ukraine war lacked geopolitical awareness of its significance to US national interest.
4. His view on global warming (that it was mainly not manmade) was scientifically false.
5. He and his family made considerable amounts of money out of his activism which provides questions about his actual motives.
6. He repeated the Big Lie that Trump peddled about the stolen election:

Charlie Kirk Denounces Man Asking About Killing People Ov...

The audience member at the Turning Points USA founder's tour openly called for people to be shot over false election voter fraud claims.

www.newsweek.com

He is a martyr. He spoke about his love for Jesus to whoever would listen to him on college campus'. He may have spoken about some controversial things but if he would have been given the chance to grow older and wiser, he may have changed his view for the better. No one is perfect except God Himself. The rest of us strive for perfection the best we can, falling short many times but getting back up and trying again.

 

[bèlla]

I consider him a political activist.

 

[Richard T]

The death of Charlie Kirk shocked Americans and also people further afield across the world. He was a devout Christian out there sharing his faith. He was killed for his view that transsexuality is mentally delusional and a symptom of very unbiblical notions of what gender is. So since he was opposed to a culture of lies and wearing the mantle of faith when he was shot, does this make him a martyr? The question has to be considered from a more global perspective than just an American one as there is much wrong with the American culture.

How Should Pastors Respond to Charlie Kirk’s Assassination? - Christianity Today

After the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, how do pastors lead well in a fractured, reactive age? Here are five pastoral questions for this moment.

www.christianitytoday.com

The case for him being a martyr is that much of what he said reflects the deepest Christian teaching:

1. Jesus Christ is His Lord and Savior
2. A woman is what God made her; killing one's babies contradicts motherhood.
3. It is wrong to assert one's sexuality over one's relationship with God
4. Transsexuality is a symptom of a culture of lies and delusions about gender and identity.
5. The seven mountain vision of bringing Christianity into the center of society was a good and healthy one.
6. He spoke about a restoration of masculinity in an age that would prefer to emasculate men
7. What he said about the triumph of excellence and merit over quotas to remedy inequality
8. His bible based support of Israel alongside his opposition to the anti-Christian agenda of cultural Marxism

More controversial viewpoints:
1. He put a religious filter on immigration, saying people of false religions should not be allowed into the country. But he inconsistently applied this to Hispanic catholics, even though married to a catholic.
2. His views on COVID were unscientific and false
3. His view on the Ukraine war lacked geopolitical awareness of its significance to US national interest.
4. His view on global warming (that it was mainly not manmade) was scientifically false.
5. He and his family made considerable amounts of money out of his activism which provides questions about his actual motives.
6. He repeated the Big Lie that Trump peddled about the stolen election:

Charlie Kirk Denounces Man Asking About Killing People Ov...

The audience member at the Turning Points USA founder's tour openly called for people to be shot over false election voter fraud claims.

www.newsweek.com

This is is well made list overall. I do have some serious reservations about number 5 which to me needs more scrutiny. First, the ones that are pushing this 7 mountain mandate hardcore are often those with a specific endtime belief. "Postmillennial Christian believes that Jesus Christ will return to Earth after a prolonged period of Christian prosperity and influence," So no rapture from their view, but of course this is not a doctrine that is essential to salvation whatever way the end times comes.

I don't know Kirk's beliefs or how he used the 7 mountain mandate. I doubt though he was postmillennial. The impetus for Christian influence is a good one, the way it occurs though is likely not centered on a prosperity gospel. I'm long on the idea that revival comes more often from tough times.

There could also be some debate as to the prophecy's origins and whether it has evolved over time. From google AI
"The initial purpose of the mandate was to guide evangelism, but it has since evolved into a more dominion-focused strategy within the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), particularly through leaders like Lance Wallnau, Bill Johnson, and C. Peter Wagner."

 

[lismore]

The case for him being a martyr is that much of what he said reflects the deepest Christian teaching:

5. The seven mountain vision of bringing Christianity into the center of society was a good and healthy one.

Hello mindlight, I'm not sure about this one being the deepest Christian teaching. 'Seven Mountain Vision', I don't know that one. Which passage in the bible talks of a seven mountain vision? God Bless

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Charlie Kirk was both a martyr and as most martyrs are, a political activist.
When they preach and stand for what is true, many in society will reject them
as they are threatened politically.

In the case of Charlie Kirk, he stood firm in his faith and political beliefs,
which many in society rejected.

 

[mindlight]

A bit of inconsistency here: the author views these positions as controversial and in the same breath uses words like "false" and "lies" to describe them!

I consider each of these positions to be false but I recognise that some Christians may disagree, hence the use of the word controversial

It is pretty much the same as eating a meal that tastes awful and then telling the cook they made bold choices.

 

[bèlla]

The oft repeated Seven Mountain Vision has rarely been explored in practical terms by christians outside of that circle. Look at the industries named. Do you honestly believe you’ll unseat the people on top or get close enough to influence them? Have we forgotten the mysterious deaths of multiple cryptocurrency founders? There‘s a reason things get dark the higher you climb. If you’re not prepared to die or put your loved ones at risk you’d be better off praying instead. Don‘t be naive. Dissent is costly.

~bella

 

[mindlight]

Traditional vs. Modern Usage

• Traditional Definition:
  The word "martyr" means "witness". Historically, it referred to someone who voluntarily died rather than deny their religion.
  
  
• Modern Definition:
  While the religious aspect remains, the definition has broadened to include anyone who dies for a cause or their conscience.

Yes, a definition is usefu,l but it is better to focus more on the Christian aspect of that. What needs to be demonstrated is that he was serving God's will, and then he was murdered for that rather than for the dross that was also a part of his message and witness.

A Christian martyr is a person who has been killed for their unwavering faith and testimony in Jesus Christ, rather than deny their beliefs.

 

[mindlight]

He is a martyr. He spoke about his love for Jesus to whoever would listen to him on college campus'. He may have spoken about some controversial things but if he would have been given the chance to grow older and wiser, he may have changed his view for the better. No one is perfect except God Himself. The rest of us strive for perfection the best we can, falling short many times but getting back up and trying again.

True, there are no perfect martyrs.

 

[bèlla]

I consider each of these positions to be false but I recognise that some Christians may disagree, hence the use of the word controversial

It is pretty much the same as eating a meal that tastes awful and then telling the cook they made bold choices.

I think a better point for number five is where the money came from. This was mentioned at the memorial in Arlington Heights. He was given a large sum from someone he met at an event. But the gentleman who spoke didn’t say they were previously acquainted. He suggested the company should become a non profit and wrote a $10,000 check for him because he couldn’t afford the attorney. When the paperwork was approved he was given a second check for $1,000,000 the next time they met. Bear in mind his age at the time. He was a senior in high school.

Patronage at that level comes with expectations. You don’t get a check like that because they believe in you. I dated someone who experienced the same. He had an idea for a non profit and met with potential donors. They asked for a stake (%) and a board seat. I advised him to turn it down because he wouldn’t own it and would be more like the face of the organization. I know that game and you see the same with venture capitalists.

~bella

 

[lismore]

This is is well made list overall. I do have some serious reservations about number 5 which to me needs more scrutiny. First, the ones that are pushing this 7 mountain mandate hardcore are often those with a specific endtime belief. "Postmillennial Christian believes that Jesus Christ will return to Earth after a prolonged period of Christian prosperity and influence," So no rapture from their view, but of course this is not a doctrine that is essential to salvation whatever way the end times comes.

Thanks for the clarification re this 'seven Mountain mandate'. It seems, optimistic. Is it widely held in America? I have not encountered it here. God Bless

 

[mindlight]

This is is well made list overall. I do have some serious reservations about number 5 which to me needs more scrutiny. First, the ones that are pushing this 7 mountain mandate hardcore are often those with a specific endtime belief. "Postmillennial Christian believes that Jesus Christ will return to Earth after a prolonged period of Christian prosperity and influence," So no rapture from their view, but of course this is not a doctrine that is essential to salvation whatever way the end times comes.

I don't know Kirk's beliefs or how he used the 7 mountain mandate. I doubt though he was postmillennial. The impetus for Christian influence is a good one, the way it occurs though is likely not centered on a prosperity gospel. I'm long on the idea that revival comes more often from tough times.

There could also be some debate as to the prophecy's origins and whether it has evolved over time. From google AI
"The initial purpose of the mandate was to guide evangelism, but it has since evolved into a more dominion-focused strategy within the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), particularly through leaders like Lance Wallnau, Bill Johnson, and C. Peter Wagner."

A post-millennial Dominionist theology would suggest that God's Kingdom grows through all time and ushers in Christ's return by its victory and dominion over all the earth. It is the case that the church has been growing nonstop for 2000 years on a global basis. But Global Dominion is not a feasible option for the church until the Messiah's return and, in many ways, is antithetical to the aims of the gospel, and as you sa,y the vision of the end times seems to contradict it.

The vision of a Christian nation in which family, religion, education, media, arts and entertainment, business, and government are all transformed and shaped by Christians can coexist with premillennial or indeed amillennial views. The American nation then becomes an island of light and hope in a world that is, in an overall sense, darkening. It would not be the first time in history that such efforts have been exerted, and there are some good examples: whether under Theodosius, Justinian, Alfred the Great, or Charlemagne. The fruit of such victories has been more positive than negative in my view and has impacted all time in these four figures, for example:

1. Theodosius gave us a Christian empire and the Nicene-Constantinople creed, which we speak in church.
2. Justinian gave us Christian laws, which form the bedrock of many of the best legal systems even today
3. Alfred the Great created a Christian England state, and the legacy that led to the USA
4. Charlemagne's conquest and forcible conversion of Eastern Europe means that immigrants from these countries to the USA were mainly Christian.

I guess the answer as to whether this was a broadly Christian approach or a narrowly based one on a single denominational view or a theology unhinged from the global historical church depends on the extent to which it accepted Christian pluralism. Kirk, being married to a Catholic though an evangelical himself, does seem to embrace the more orthodox strands of the American church.

 

[mindlight]

Hello mindlight, I'm not sure about this one being the deepest Christian teaching. 'Seven Mountain Vision', I don't know that one. Which passage in the bible talks of a seven mountain vision? God Bless

I quoted it in terms of Christians shaping and transforming society, but as I accepted in my other post, there is a worry it might be linked with fringe theology and not a broadly based Christian pluralism in line with the orthodox thinking of the global-historical church.

There are the seven hills of Rome in the vision of Revelation, but that city, like Babylon, is a center of darkness in prophetic vision.

 

[mindlight]

Charlie Kirk was both a martyr and as most martyrs are, a political activist.
When they preach and stand for what is true, many in society will reject them
as they are threatened politically.

In the case of Charlie Kirk, he stood firm in his faith and political beliefs,
which many in society rejected.

The first martyrs said there was no King but Christ and that all the Emperor's claims to divinity were false. For that, they were called atheists and killed. But Kirk and Trump were friends, so where was the tension between Caesar and Christ? If the devil is a Democrat, then the marriage of politics and faith makes more sense, but I suspect neither major American party can make an exclusive claim on God.

 

[mindlight]

I think a better point for number five is where the money came from. This was mentioned at the memorial in Arlington Heights. He was given a large sum from someone he met at an event. But the gentleman who spoke didn’t say they were previously acquainted. He suggested the company should become a non profit and wrote a $10,000 check for him because he couldn’t afford the attorney. When the paperwork was approved he was given a second check for $1,000,000 the next time they met. Bear in mind his age at the time. He was a senior in high school.

Patronage at that level comes with expectations. You don’t get a check like that because they believe in you. I dated someone who experienced the same. He had an idea for a non profit and met with potential donors. They asked for a stake (%) and a board seat. I advised him to turn it down because he wouldn’t own it and would be more like the face of the organization. I know that game and you see the same with venture capitalists.

~bella

Interesting answer, and I was completely unaware of this while at the same time being worried about how rich Kirk was. To me, it was a sign of the wrong kind of patronage. Do you have any links or evidence to support this claim

 

[bèlla]

Interesting answer, and I was completely unaware of this while at the same time being worried about how rich Kirk was. To me, it was a sign of the wrong kind of patronage. Do you have any links or evidence to support this claim

A local person I listen to occasion went to the event. He worked in media in the past and covers local news. But his takes can be controversial and I don’t agree with everything. Still he’s willing to go places my common sense avoids. ;-)

I‘ll see if I can find another source. He was right at the stage and recording. If I can’t I’ll give you that. There’s a lot of big names connected to the organization. Candace Owens worked with him and met her husband the former chairman of the UK branch. He’s the son of a member of the House of Lords. You don’t get in those circles overnight.

Turning Point UK (TPUK) is a British offshoot of the American student pressure group Turning Point USA.The UK group was set up to promote right-wing politics in UK schools, colleges and universities, with the stated aim of countering what Turning Point UK alleges are the left-wing politics of UK educational institutions.

The group was launched in December 2018 by Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA, and Candace Owens, then the communications director of the US group,at the Royal Automobile Club in London. The President of the Club is Prince Michael of Kent.

When you consider the people he was engaging with the money is understandable. But you’re not rubbing shoulders with them and doing your own thing.

~bella