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The Trump DOJ goes "woke" and will target free speech.

RocksInMyHead

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Tell you what, I provided evidence for my opinion but you have not. Why don’t you try to convince me that your opinion is right.
I'm not clear on what you want me to support. My statement that a senator's voting record can't show you that they're "far left"? Because that's not opinion - that's fact. Again, there are no bills that the senate has voted on recently that I would consider "far left". Therefore, no senator has ever voted for a far left bill, and so their voting record cannot show them to be far left. If you disagree, you'd have to point to some bills that qualify as far left - and convince me that they fit that description.

Maybe you can start by defining what you consider to be "far left" - if we're working from different definitions of the term, then we're just going to be talking past each other (that's why I was asking you which of the bills on the Clinton list you thought were "far left", FYI).
 
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mark46

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NxNW

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In fact the democratic views on immigration, obsessiveness with cultural issues, and soft on crime stances, all progressive and far left stances, lost the party many votes in the last election.
None of these "views" are part of the Dem platform. That's something the GOP made up.
You argue that the far left does not run your party but the perception (and truth) is that it does.
It may be a perception, but it's not the truth.
I’m an independent and those issues turned me away from voting democrat in the last cycle and might again in the next cycle unless the message and stances change.
As I said, none of those issues are part of the Dem platform. Harris was criticized at being too harsh as a prosecutor.
 
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NxNW

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I don’t fall for propaganda. If you think it is not true then argue the point.
You were quoting it earlier.
These days democrats seem to lean far left and republicans seem to lean far right. Communication is hardly possible.
Democrats lean right, Republicans lean far right.
 
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childeye 2

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I am a centrist also and I dont think of left and right the way you do. Both sides argue for democracy and no side argues for autocracy since autocracy is not consistent with the US tricameral form of government. There is no dichotomy just issues which are argued by their individual twists.

I seek policies that address both sides of an issue fairly. A centrist needs to be objective and understand both sides of an issue in order to do that. Just because we have three branches of government doesn't mean they can't be bought. You may as well claim that you can't be objective if you're claiming there is no autocratic side at play in our government. Try to remember that Democracy/autocracy is about the centralizing and decentralizing of power.

Monsanto in 2013 was able to pass legislation that insulated themselves from any lawsuits that could claim health risks or environmental damage due to planting genetically modified plants. So, whether you realize it or not, the centralizing and decentralizing of power does occur in our government as legislation is passed and policies are enacted.

Therefore, I'm sure that I'm not the only one witnessing the middle class disappearing even as the wealth gap increases. I'm not the only one who sees how the rich and powerful are controlling more of the messaging that gets people elected to congress and into the presidency. I think it's safe to say that it's the autocratic side of the spectrum that would want the Epstein files buried while claiming they are for transparency.

Objectively however, they are autocratic as a matter of circumstance, and not according to anyone's subjective opinion. To qualify as leaning autocrat, they would be active in crafting and favoring policy that entrenches and supports their status or hold on power, not diminish it. One has to know that these rich and affluent interest groups exist and are politically active to be able to reason on this Dichotomy. --> Democray/autocracy

So, of course, autocrats would want to sound like they're for Democracy and serving everyone's best interests. Which is why one needs to look at their policies. For example, Citizens United is a policy that counts unlimited dark money in politics, as a matter of free speech. This would be a policy that would serve the rich and affluent not the average Joe citizen.
It is not a negative spin but actually true. Do some research on what policies and stances caused the democrats the last election.
It's a negative spin about the Democrats view because (1) It's subjective (2) it's not neutral nor a positive spin. I would say the number one issue was probably the economy, specifically the high prices of groceries and housing, inflation, etc.
It is widely known that the left policies on immigration lean toward open borders compared to the right which lean toward closed borders. This is old news.
When Trump first announced his idea for a great wall, I remember it was touted as impenetrable, up to fifty feet high and made of steel and hardened concrete with a beautiful giant door. I also remembered how impractical that was, especially since there already was partisan approval and funding for a steel bollard border fence. Soon afterward Trump, in his speeches, was equating NOT being for HIS wall AS --> Not for border security --> Pro-Crime and Pro-open Borders. <-- And people believed this negative spin and repeated it because they're easily deceived.

Please note that this is a subjective negative spin about the Democratic view depicted by --> Trump: The Democrats want to have no borders. They want to get rid of ICE. … Between Maxine Waters and Nancy Pelosi, and getting rid of ICE, and having open borders — and the biggest thing, you have open borders. All it’s going to do is lead to massive, massive crime. That’s going to be their platform, open borders, which equals crime. I think they’ll never win another election, so I’m actually quite happy about it.
The obsessiveness as I stated it related to cultural issues such as parental rights, LGTBQ policies, and soft on crime policies. There is no objective view per se since individual perspective are ymmv.
I don't see Parental rights as a cultural issue. And I don't see "soft on crime" as a cultural issue.

I guess the LGBTQ community might share some experiences that could qualify as cultural. I can't speak for the LGBTQ. But I would guess that the objective view would be that the LBGTQ want equal rights as in regard to acceptance of their lifestyle, in some reasonable degree, and the opposition would most likely feel like the law should not be used to force acceptance of the LGBTQ lifestyle.

I'm not sure what qualifies this issue as "obsessive" on only one side. Perhaps you meant the Democrats focus on it too much, but that too could be what autocrat messaging intends to portray.
Again, look at the criticism of DA’s from dark blue cities such as San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Portland, etc. for allowing violent criminals back on the street with little to no bond, for example. Again, this has been on the news constantly for a few years now. Maybe keep up with the news?
So this is what was lurking under "soft on crime"? One thing that comes to mind is how it's possible to cherry pick reports to support a one-sided narrative, so as to amplify or magnify an issue for political ends. The two-tier justice system has been a problem for criminal judges for as long as I can remember. A judge has to weigh the rights of people against the safety of the people, and either grant or deny bail to potentially violent people who may or may not be guilty and oftentimes are poor. I would hope they get it right more times than not.

As a centrist, I can therefore see that any depiction where the "left" represents being for "letting violent offenders free" and the right represents being against "letting violent offenders free" is propaganda from the right.

There is no autocrat. The form of the US government is composed of the executive, Supreme Court, and congress.
The Democracy/autocracy dichotomy is about the centralizing and decentralizing of power. For example, if the legislative branch and the Supreme court do not check a Presidents power but gradually let him run roughshod over the rights of people with impunity, then the system of checks and balances have failed, and power has become centralized.

I think it's clear that Trump is an autocrat. Autocratic policies would include things like stripping government employees of civil service protective status, targeting political dissent, threatening journalists, newspapers, media outlets, educational institutions, declaring arbitrary tariffs as a massive regressive tax, abusing immigrants' rights by sending people away to prisons in foreign countries without a trial, etc..
 
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NxNW

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It is widely known that the left policies on immigration lean toward open borders
Propaganda.
The obsessiveness as I stated it related to cultural issues such as parental rights, LGTBQ policies, and soft on crime policies.
More propaganda.
Again, look at the criticism of DA’s from dark blue cities such as San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Portland, etc. for allowing violent criminals back on the street with little to no bond, for example. Again, this has been on the news constantly for a few years now. Maybe keep up with the news?
Propaganda again. You're falling for it right and left. But mostly on the right.
 
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rjs330

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Trump says TV networks 'against' him should 'maybe' lose licence,​


Everyone ok with this?

Nope, but i suppose a president is entitled to his opinion as is the rest of us. I'm guessing other presidents have felt the same way about various broadcasters. However, Trump is one just can't help but speak his thoughts out loud. It's in his DNA.

But I wouldn't support any actual move to pull licenses for any media that doesn't agree with him. That's just not an American value.
 
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childeye 2

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I strongly disagee that a candidate's words show who they are and what is their hearts and minds.

Much, much, much more important is what a candidate has done. Action do indeed speak much louder than words.
I can agree with your sentiment as intended. Certainly, a politician can say they're for doing something and then do the exact opposite. However, I can still look for things like slander, ad hominem attacks, false equivalence, and negative prejudice in a candidate's words, and those qualify as actions of poor judgment, and those actions also reveal bad qualities of an untrustworthy character, willing to lie cheat and steal to get power.
 
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mark46

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Propaganda.
The democrats have had their immigration policy that changed drastically since Obama left.

You decry Republicans for saying that the Democratic policy leans toward open borders (when they are being gentle).
====
You cry "propoganda" No, just opinion. From 2017 onward, Democrats clearly stated their views on immigration. Everyone saw the results during the first three years of the Biden administration.
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Trump made his views known in both his first team, his campaigns and in the last few months.
=====
Voters judged and continue to judge.
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They don't want Biden's approach. Name-calling Republican characterizations of Biden/Democratic immigration party simply sets the stage to lose millions of votes on this issue yet again in the mid-terms.

BTW, I am being generous. Many of those popular in the Democratic lean much more toward open borders than Biden ever did. And far, far from the almost closed borders that the voters want.
 
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Vambram

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Nithavela

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Oh well. Some entertainers need to learn to filter themselves.

It is what it is.
You will all need to filter yourselves.
 
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Nithavela

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Nope, but i suppose a president is entitled to his opinion as is the rest of us. I'm guessing other presidents have felt the same way about various broadcasters. However, Trump is one just can't help but speak his thoughts out loud. It's in his DNA.

But I wouldn't support any actual move to pull licenses for any media that doesn't agree with him. That's just not an American value.
Apparently, no actual move is neccessary. Just the threat is enough to chill free speech.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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You will all need to filter yourselves.
This is no longer the United States I have known and loved for 70 years. This extension and abuse of power transcends parties. It is toxic to our basic values. How did we get here? Social media and cable news have insidiously helped.

I think I am backing out. This polemic forum and Facebook are about my only snares. Or maybe I can limit myself to non political, even non controversial topics.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Police dismantle longstanding White House peace vigil on Trump’s orders

The vigil targeted by the president was started in 1981 by William Thomas to promote nuclear disarmament and an end to global conflicts, and it is believed to be the longest continuous anti-war protest in the United States.

A correspondent for the conservative network Real America’s Voice, Brian Glenn, asked Trump about the vigil on Friday. “Just out front of the White House is a blue tent that originally was put there to be an anti-nuclear tent for nuclear arms – it’s kind of morphed into an anti-America sometimes, anti-Trump at many times,” he said. Trump replied that he didn’t know about the tent and then turned to staff to say: “Take it down, right now.”

Will Roosien, a 24-year-old who had been volunteering at the vigil, told the Washington Post that officers arrived at 6.30am and told him he had 30 minutes to remove a tarp under which he had been sheltering from the rain. He refused and told the Post he was detained while the officers dismantled the tent.

“This is a disgrace, and you should all feel ashamed,” Roosien told the officers, according to video obtained by the Post. “Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, for 44 years, someone has sat here, advocating for people around the world who we don’t know. Advocating for human rights. Advocating for peace.”
 
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probinson

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“This is a disgrace, and you should all feel ashamed,” Roosien told the officers, according to video obtained by the Post. “Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, for 44 years, someone has sat here, advocating for people around the world who we don’t know. Advocating for human rights. Advocating for peace.”

I don't support Trump shutting down this vigil, but by this guy's own words, the vigil is obviously just performative. He might as well just said, "We've sat here for 44 years and accomplished absolutely nothing."

Still, if you want to sit somewhere for 44 years and accomplish nothing, that's your right. And I support it.
 
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Nithavela

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“Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, for 44 years, someone has sat here, advocating for people around the world who we don’t know. Advocating for human rights. Advocating for peace.”
What an outdated idea. Good riddance.
 
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Nithavela

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I don't support Trump shutting down this vigil, but by this guy's own words, the vigil is obviously just performative. He might as well just said, "We've sat here for 44 years and accomplished absolutely nothing."

Still, if you want to sit somewhere for 44 years and accomplish nothing, that's your right. And I support it.
Can you point out a non-performative vigil?
 
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probinson

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Can you point out a non-performative vigil?

Probably not. Can you?

Again, if someone wants to sit in the same spot for 44 years and accomplish absolutely nothing, I support their right to do so.
 
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Nithavela

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