Free Speech and Employment

[BeckyJ]

Your job and continued employment are not protected by the First Amendment. Think carefully before you post, etc. The First Amendment does not apply in private workplaces to protect employees’ speech, says Andrew Clark, an attorney who specializes in employment and labor law. It actually protects the employers’ right to make decisions about employees, based on employees’ speech. Post at your own risk.

The company my husband works for let's people know when they hire them that any devices they give them to use for their job keeps an eye on what they are doing work wise or not. Not all companies tell employees this, but I see nothing wrong with it since it's the company that is paying a person for a job and it's the company's devices. My husband doesn't do anything of a personal nature on any of those devices. I'm always curious why some do whatever they want on them besides work. But for whatever reason they do it, they need to realize that it doesn't fall under the first amendment.

What do you think about all of this in relation to employment and free speech and the limitations in the first amendment?

 

[caffeinated hermit]

I struggle with this... I remember when a cop stepped down from his job over a social media post stating that marriage is between one man and one woman. I didn't like that. I tend to feel that what you post in your jammies on the couch when you're clocked out for the day shouldn't be your employer's concern, unless you're spilling company secrets or badmouthing your employer. If you film yourself doing something stupid or unethical on the job, that should be fair game, too.

But a social media post in other contexts? Even if it's arguably stupid, tasteless, or controversial? I tend to feel like that should be left alone, unless your employer thinks you're a danger to your co-workers. In that case, call the police.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Your job and continued employment are not protected by the First Amendment. Think carefully before you post, etc. The First Amendment does not apply in private workplaces to protect employees’ speech, says Andrew Clark, an attorney who specializes in employment and labor law. It actually protects the employers’ right to make decisions about employees, based on employees’ speech. Post at your own risk.

The company my husband works for let's people know when they hire them that any devices they give them to use for their job keeps an eye on what they are doing work wise or not. Not all companies tell employees this, but I see nothing wrong with it since it's the company that is paying a person for a job and it's the company's devices. My husband doesn't do anything of a personal nature on any of those devices. I'm always curious why some do whatever they want on them besides work. But for whatever reason they do it, they need to realize that it doesn't fall under the first amendment.

What do you think about all of this in relation to employment and free speech and the limitations in the first amendment?

When I was employed, I never used the office/work equipment for posting anything. When I get another job in the near future, I still won't use work equipment for my own "free expression." I also don't do FB or Insta-crumb, or any of the other social media platforms.

So, no worries here.

 

[BeckyJ]

I struggle with this... I remember when a cop stepped down from his job over a social media post stating that marriage is between one man and one woman. I didn't like that. I tend to feel that what you post in your jammies on the couch when you're clocked out for the day shouldn't be your employer's concern, unless you're spilling company secrets or badmouthing your employer. If you film yourself doing something stupid or unethical on the job, that should be fair game, too.

But a social media post in other contexts? Even if it's arguably stupid, tasteless, or controversial? I tend to feel like that should be left alone, unless your employer thinks you're a danger to your co-workers. In that case, call the police.

A person choosing to step down is different than being fired, unless you mean they were fired.

I get what you're saying, but if someone on their private time is robbing banks or worse, but is a great, honest employee when at work...wouldn't that sort of thing be a stain for a company to keep that person on?

 

[bèlla]

This is happening whether the device was given to the employee or their own. There‘s numerous videos on the subject and many weren’t using company time. It’s best to see social media as fair game and be mindful of what you say or keep your posts private. I made a decision several years ago to use social media for professional purposes and unfriended all personal contacts including my loved ones. This was before doxxing became a thing and I’m glad I did.

~bella

 

[caffeinated hermit]

A person choosing to step down is different than being fired, unless you mean they were fired.

I get what you're saying, but if someone on their private time is robbing banks or worse, but is a great, honest employee when at work...wouldn't that sort of thing be a stain for a company to keep that person on?

The guy chose to step down, after he was told that he could be fired if future social media posts he made offended people. So, not exactly the same, but connected.

Generally... if I commit a crime, even if I'm a great worker, and I get caught, my legal troubles will probably prevent my showing up to work consistently after that. I could explain my problems to my employer, and, legally, I'm to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, so... Yes, if my employer didn't want the negative spotlight and wanted to let me go, they could.

Apart from posts that threaten to hurt people, I'm concerned that firing people for posts that one finds offensive (even if they are pretty awful) is not too far off from what people on the right (like myself) were so upset about under Biden. We don't want to turn into the very thing we say we're fighting. But everybody does, right or left.

 

[BeckyJ]

The guy chose to step down, after he was told that he could be fired if future social media posts he made offended people. So, not exactly the same, but connected.

Generally... if I commit a crime, even if I'm a great worker, and I get caught, my legal troubles will probably prevent my showing up to work consistently after that. I could explain my problems to my employer, and, legally, I'm to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, so... Yes, if my employer didn't want the negative spotlight and let me go, they could.

Apart from posts that threaten to hurt people, I'm concerned that firing people for posts that one finds offensive (even if they are pretty awful) is not too far off from what people on the right (like myself) were so upset about under Biden. We don't want to turn into the very thing we say we're fighting. But everybody does, right or left.

The Left leaning have went after people for posting things they don't like, then tracking down where some of them work or live, then soon after they were fired in some instances, some even felt unsafe in their own home. Those 4 yrs under Biden were bad, but some got in trouble for expressing that, amongst other ungodly things that came from that side. Now that it's coming back to them since they lost the White House, they don't like it one bit. For them it's rules for thee but not for me, especially in the last 15+ yrs. Now that they are getting a taste of their own medicine, they aren't happy..

 

[BeckyJ]

@caffeinated.hermit I saw your reply before I guess it was deleted.
I understand what you're saying, it can be hypocritical. But if those who set the precedent aren't showed how wrong they are, it will only get worse from them eventually.
It's like a parent who doesn't discipline their child and the child thinks they can keep moving the goalpost and gets worse.
Hope that makes since, lol.

 

[caffeinated hermit]

@caffeinated.hermit I saw your reply before I guess it was deleted.
I understand what you're saying, it can be hypocritical. But if those who set the precedent aren't showed how wrong they are, it will only get worse from them eventually.
It's like a parent who doesn't discipline their child and the child thinks they can keep moving the goalpost and gets worse.
Hope that makes since, lol.

The thing is though... the people we disagree with aren't children, they're adults, like us. And if we hated conservative / Christian opinions getting us into trouble, or clear-thinking options on transgenderism being labeled "hate speech", shouldn't we extend some degree of grace to opinions that may be offensive to us? Or risk turning into a mirror image of what we're allegedly fighting?

 

[BeckyJ]

The thing is though... the people we disagree with aren't children, they're adults, like us. And if we hated conservative / Christian opinions getting us into trouble, or clear-thinking options on transgenderism being labeled "hate speech", shouldn't we extend some degree of grace to opinions that may be offensive to us? Or risk turning into a mirror image of what we're allegedly fighting?

I'm aware we're dealing with adults, but some of them act like teenagers at times...AOC comes to mind.
Christian opinions shouldn't get us in trouble because it's based in truth. What they push in general are lies and ungodly things.
Truth isn't hate speech, but they label it that none the less. That is wrong.
There can be grace toward opinions we disagree with, but they rarely do that themselves as we've seen through the years.
When you give the devil and inch, he'll take a mile if it's allowed.
I think it's better to err on the side of grace, but with a guard up that doesn't let them keep getting away with murder basically of all that is good and godly in this country and the world.

 

[caffeinated hermit]

I'm aware we're dealing with adults, but some of them act like teenagers at times...AOC comes to mind.
Christian opinions shouldn't get us in trouble because it's based in truth. What they push in general are lies and ungodly things.
Truth isn't hate speech, but they label it that none the less. That is wrong.
There can be grace toward opinions we disagree with, but they rarely do that themselves as we've seen through the years.
When you give the devil and inch, he'll take a mile if it's allowed.
I think it's better to err on the side of grace, but with a guard up that doesn't let them keep getting away with murder basically of all that is good and godly in this country and the world.

I get what you're saying. Morally, I think we would agree on many things. But... as a younger person I was quite liberal. The approaches that changed my mind and heart over time were not combative, but gracious, patient, and humble. I wasn't compelled to change my mind, but was gradually shown what "better" looked like. I just feel that it's important to allow others to think and speak out loud, so long as they're not calling for violence, or risk becoming as censorious as the people we suffered under.

 

[Delvianna]

Personally, I think any company should have the right to fire an employee, even if they don't agree with something they wrote on social media. The way I see it, the fact that a person works for you means they represent your company while you're at work. If people recognize that person and actively avoid your business because of them, thats a problem for the business owner. We live in an age where people will go on yelp or google and write reviews to pull the business down or start boycotts. So I think it's only right that a business owner retains the right to let an employee go over social media posts, even if those posts were done on their free time.

But, I will say it sucks that we live in an era where that's the case. Personally, I think social media ruined our society.

 

[BeckyJ]

Personally, I think any company should have the right to fire an employee, even if they don't agree with something they wrote on social media. The way I see it, the fact that a person works for you means they represent your company while you're at work. If people recognize that person and actively avoid your business because of them, thats a problem for the business owner. We live in an age where people will go on yelp or google and write reviews to pull the business down or start boycotts. So I think it's only right that a business owner retains the right to let an employee go over social media posts, even if those posts were done on their free time.

But, I will say it sucks that we live in an era where that's the case. Personally, I think social media ruined our society.

Very well said.
I agree, since the internet has caused a societal decline in some ways.
Yes, the internet is a good tool, but it's also one that has spun out of control in so many ways.
I recall growing up before the internet came into homes around the early 1990's. Life was at a normal pace back then. We'd get any news that was going on around the world, but it would take a hot minute for it to spread. Now everything is pretty much instant.
Plus the control it has over some people is crazy!

 

[Delvianna]

Very well said.
I agree, since the internet has caused a societal decline in some ways.
Yes, the internet is a good tool, but it's also one that has spun out of control in so many ways.
I recall growing up before the internet came into homes around the early 1990's. Life was at a normal pace back then. We'd get any news that was going on around the world, but it would take a hot minute for it to spread. Now everything is pretty much instant.
Plus the control it has over some people is crazy!

I agree. I grew up without internet and society was so much better then. It forced people to interact face to face and think before you speak but with the internet, you could say whatever and feel protected behind a computer screen. It's no wonder that mental disorders has sky rocketed just within the last few decades.

Free speech =/= free from consequences. The social decline were seeing, I think, for one reason, is due to hardening of peoples hearts where no one cares really about others. They only think about themselves, want to be right, or actively get a kick out of being evil towards another person. The other is the clear pull away from God. Even people who don't believe in God at least saw the wisdom in Christian practices and followed them back in the day anyway but now... Hedonism has taken over and without Godly morality, well... this is the outcome. No self-control over actions or your mouth and without a moral law, why not do/say whatever you want?

 

[Servus]

Lots of people don't realize they are using the company mainframe and not a personal computer, and that those on the company IT crew can see everything they do. Including what passwords they use to log into personal accounts. So for instance if you're logging into your bank account on the company computer, they can see all the information in your bank account and the password you used. A lot of times IT jobs are outsourced to those in overseas countries.

 

[caffeinated hermit]

But, I will say it sucks that we live in an era where that's the case. Personally, I think social media ruined our society.

I totally agree with this. I hate that is is a thing now, for anyone. The internet should have stopped with discussion forums, email, and cool websites about grizzly bears.

 

[BeckyJ]

Lots of people don't realize they are using the company mainframe and not a personal computer, and that those on the company IT crew can see everything they do. Including what passwords they use to log into personal accounts. So for instance if you're logging into your bank account on the company computer, they can see all the information in your bank account and the password you used. A lot of times IT jobs are outsourced to those in overseas countries.

So true.
Thanks for sharing!