- Jun 8, 2021
- 3,618
- 820
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
This is a nice exchange of ideas with someone who shared some basic truths of the Gospel, in contrast with the failures of Judaism....
Someone said:
In these verses we see a man who, although at one time was full of hatred, now displays love for his fellow man. As a one time zealous Pharisee, Paul understands the blindness of the Israelites to the Gospel. He now understands following a religion does not equate to salvation. Paul’s conversion led to his understand of how Jesus had fulfilled the Law, thereby being the only way to God as Jesus Himself stated in John 14:6: Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Continuing, Paul then teaches concerning righteousness:
“5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim”
In the following verse’s, Paul proclaims the fundamentals of salvation in Jesus Christ:
“9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile —the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.””
Declaring Jesus is Lord was - and still is - a bold declaration. At that time in history Caesar was lord across the empire. To declare another lord was treason, and grounds for death. Notwithstanding, God has proclaimed Jesus to be Lord of all because, He is the only One who has attained Salvation for all who believe.
As believers we are called upon to share our faith:
“14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!””
The following verses enforce the critical importance of sharing The Good News of The Gospel:
“16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.””
In conclusion, Paul writes of how the Gospel message has gone out the the Gentiles:
“19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”
20 And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
21 But concerning Israel he says,
“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.””
I responded:
There is a lot I could comment on here. Pretty well stated, although my theological concerns carry on to certain issues I've had to deal with in other places. So I'll just briefly outline how I view these things in that regard.
Paul understood that the Jewish practice of the Law was intended to show the perfect righteousness of Christ as opposed to the flawed righteousness of Israel. This meant that although Israel's righteousness was accepted of God, resulting in spiritual life and blessing, it was insufficient to obtain Eternal Life.
What makes all righteousness acceptable in God's sight is faith, even from flawed human beings. Israel was told that God's word was near them, indicating they could do what brought life to them. It could not, however, do what Christ did, which is to be raised from the dead and to ascend into heaven.
All true ministers of the Gospel are equipped with the ability to share God's living word with others which, if accepted, can bring them Eternal Life through Jesus Christ. Those who just share empty knowledge of the Gospel are no better than Israel when, after years of repetition and compromise, began to lose their track with God's word that had been near them.
None of this means that Israel was always faulty in their spiritual life. It's just that Israel, along with all nations, fall into spiritual decline over time. This has happened to Christian nations in the NT era.
We should not create too big a contrast between Israel in the OT and the Church in the NT--the results are the same. We begin well and end badly. The system of God's word is the same. But the problem is that society loses God's word over time, since the majority tend to fall away from God's word and from its life.
When Israel fell away from God, through idolatry, God restored them with their repentance. Even today I believe Israel can be restored as a godly nation, just as many Christian nations have fallen into backsliding but have experienced reformations and revivals, restoring their Christian blessing.
The problem with Israel has been, they have had repeated failures, and came, in the time of Christ, to a hardening of their hearts. This could happen to Christians in the NT era too--they just haven't fallen as far as Israel did yet, though that may be coming.
In my personal opinion, I don't think we should give up on either Israel or Christian nations. Hardened hearts require severe chastisement, and judgment against the causes. But Christ came to die for the worst, hardened heart. And we should maintain that charitable attitude towards all, as I see it.
On another issue you raised, I will say that I think Pontius Pilate was less offended at Jesus' claim to be Lord because he said his Kingdom was of heaven, and not in competition with Caesar. It was recognized that his word was true and not covert or deceptive.
So, there was no real threat to the Roman Empire in the sense of military challenge or usurpation. Ultimately, the Roman Empire converted, and obtained the spiritual Kingdom that Israel had lost.
I personally believe Israel has a chance to come back as a nation that it was originally called to be, commiting itself to being a godly nation, a Christian nation. But I understand that idea is controversial within Christianity, and I will not make this too big of an issue here.
Thank you for a nice post! A good one is one that provokes or encourages a positive reaction.
Someone said:
In these verses we see a man who, although at one time was full of hatred, now displays love for his fellow man. As a one time zealous Pharisee, Paul understands the blindness of the Israelites to the Gospel. He now understands following a religion does not equate to salvation. Paul’s conversion led to his understand of how Jesus had fulfilled the Law, thereby being the only way to God as Jesus Himself stated in John 14:6: Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Continuing, Paul then teaches concerning righteousness:
“5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim”
In the following verse’s, Paul proclaims the fundamentals of salvation in Jesus Christ:
“9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile —the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.””
Declaring Jesus is Lord was - and still is - a bold declaration. At that time in history Caesar was lord across the empire. To declare another lord was treason, and grounds for death. Notwithstanding, God has proclaimed Jesus to be Lord of all because, He is the only One who has attained Salvation for all who believe.
As believers we are called upon to share our faith:
“14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!””
The following verses enforce the critical importance of sharing The Good News of The Gospel:
“16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.””
In conclusion, Paul writes of how the Gospel message has gone out the the Gentiles:
“19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”
20 And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
21 But concerning Israel he says,
“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.””
I responded:
There is a lot I could comment on here. Pretty well stated, although my theological concerns carry on to certain issues I've had to deal with in other places. So I'll just briefly outline how I view these things in that regard.
Paul understood that the Jewish practice of the Law was intended to show the perfect righteousness of Christ as opposed to the flawed righteousness of Israel. This meant that although Israel's righteousness was accepted of God, resulting in spiritual life and blessing, it was insufficient to obtain Eternal Life.
What makes all righteousness acceptable in God's sight is faith, even from flawed human beings. Israel was told that God's word was near them, indicating they could do what brought life to them. It could not, however, do what Christ did, which is to be raised from the dead and to ascend into heaven.
All true ministers of the Gospel are equipped with the ability to share God's living word with others which, if accepted, can bring them Eternal Life through Jesus Christ. Those who just share empty knowledge of the Gospel are no better than Israel when, after years of repetition and compromise, began to lose their track with God's word that had been near them.
None of this means that Israel was always faulty in their spiritual life. It's just that Israel, along with all nations, fall into spiritual decline over time. This has happened to Christian nations in the NT era.
We should not create too big a contrast between Israel in the OT and the Church in the NT--the results are the same. We begin well and end badly. The system of God's word is the same. But the problem is that society loses God's word over time, since the majority tend to fall away from God's word and from its life.
When Israel fell away from God, through idolatry, God restored them with their repentance. Even today I believe Israel can be restored as a godly nation, just as many Christian nations have fallen into backsliding but have experienced reformations and revivals, restoring their Christian blessing.
The problem with Israel has been, they have had repeated failures, and came, in the time of Christ, to a hardening of their hearts. This could happen to Christians in the NT era too--they just haven't fallen as far as Israel did yet, though that may be coming.
In my personal opinion, I don't think we should give up on either Israel or Christian nations. Hardened hearts require severe chastisement, and judgment against the causes. But Christ came to die for the worst, hardened heart. And we should maintain that charitable attitude towards all, as I see it.
On another issue you raised, I will say that I think Pontius Pilate was less offended at Jesus' claim to be Lord because he said his Kingdom was of heaven, and not in competition with Caesar. It was recognized that his word was true and not covert or deceptive.
So, there was no real threat to the Roman Empire in the sense of military challenge or usurpation. Ultimately, the Roman Empire converted, and obtained the spiritual Kingdom that Israel had lost.
I personally believe Israel has a chance to come back as a nation that it was originally called to be, commiting itself to being a godly nation, a Christian nation. But I understand that idea is controversial within Christianity, and I will not make this too big of an issue here.
Thank you for a nice post! A good one is one that provokes or encourages a positive reaction.
