Trump Orders Flags to Half-Staff for Charlie Kirk

[Chesterton]

No, we aren't. Most rights in the US apply to anyone who is here. Citizenship generally impacts participation in certain government activities (voting, juries, some elected officies, some government jobs).

As was already stated: go look up what "protected class" means in US legal terms.

Go look up what "citizen" means.

 

[Chesterton]

Bill of Rights covers individuals within the US regardless of citizenship, and in areas governed by our government, not groups.

And the person who wants a Charlie picture printed is an individual

So then his death wasn’t an assassination?

It was murder. Doesn't matter if you want to specify it as one kind or another.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Good point. And the Bill of Rights applies everywhere.

The Bill of Rights constrains the government, not the citizenry.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

And the person who wants a Charlie picture printed is an individual

I don’t disagree, depending on circumstances. You’re the one who said BoR because they are a group and BoR protects groups.

It was murder. Doesn't matter if you want to specify it as one kind or another.

Well, an assassination implies politically-motivated death.

Either way, he was a figure who featured prominently in politics and a figurehead in a political movement and, as such, they’re allowed to deny it as long as they apply it to both parties (depending on the state election laws, my state isn’t so strict… You can deny whomever and accept whomever), or are allowed to deny anything they feel isn’t in public interest and safety. What a company can deny to print is super, super broad.

 

[durangodawood]

The Bill of Rights constrains the government, not the citizenry.

This seems so basic. Why dont people know it?

"Congress shall make no law...." etc etc. Its what Congress (and now state legis since incorporation) cannot do. Not about what private citizens or enterprise cannot do.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Go look up what "citizen" means.

And this is when I unfollow a thread. “You can lead a horse to water” and all that.

 

[Chesterton]

The Bill of Rights constrains the government, not the citizenry.

Government is made of individuals. If it's immoral for some individuals to stifle speech, why would it be moral for some other individuals? Bear in mind, you may have heard the expression "you can't legislate morality", but nothing could be further from the truth. Almost all legislation legislates morality.

 

[Chesterton]

And this is when I unfollow a thread. “You can lead a horse to water” and all that.

If I didn't already know what a protected class is I obviously wouldn't have made that initial post.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Go look up what "citizen" means.

A person born or naturalized in the USA. Not a protected class under civil rights law.

 

[Chesterton]

A person born or naturalized in the USA. Not a protected class under civil rights law.

The Bill of Rights guarantees civil rights.

 

[Belk]

The citizenry of the United States are not a protected group under the Constitution?

Only in a couple very specific cases. For the most part the constitution protects all people, citizen or not. A lot of that protection comes not from being a "protected group" but from restrictions on government so it does not over reach.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Government is made of individuals. If it's immoral for some individuals to stifle speech, why would it be moral for some other individuals?

The Bill of Rights isn't about morals. It's about placing limitations on government to ensure the existence and continuation of a free society. It recognizes that government, if left unchecked, will eventually try to curtail freedoms - so it cuts that avenue off by making it unquestionably illegal.

Bear in mind, you may have heard the expression "you can't legislate morality", but nothing could be further from the truth. Almost all legislation legislates morality.

I disagree. Some legislation has its roots in morality, but it's really more about, again, ensuring the existence and continuation of a free society. Even if you look at things like laws against murder. Murder isn't illegal because murder is wrong or immoral; murder is illegal because having murderers running around your cities and not doing anything about it is detrimental to society.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Libertarianism, everybody!

 

[RDKirk]

...a media personality, murdered in an presumably political attack:

but not for Melissa Hortman, an elected official, murdered in a separate political attack:

Recent years have found us putting the flag at half staff far too often IMO. I'm frequently wondering, "Why is the flag at half staff today?"

IMO, the flag should only be set to half staff nationally upon the death of a sitting or former President, a sitting member of Congress, or a sitting member of the Supreme Court. At the state level, only upon the death of officers at the same state levels.

 

[essentialsaltes]

In accordance with the president's directive and city policy, West Hollywood has lowered its flags to half-staff, including those at Matthew Shepard Square.

 

[RileyG]

In accordance with the president's directive and city policy, West Hollywood has lowered its flags to half-staff, including those at Matthew Shepard Square.

View attachment 370174

That applies to any flags? Interesting.

 

[Chesterton]

The Bill of Rights isn't about morals. It's about placing limitations on government to ensure the existence and continuation of a free society. It recognizes that government, if left unchecked, will eventually try to curtail freedoms - so it cuts that avenue off by making it unquestionably illegal.

...because trying to curtail freedoms is immoral, right? All of the Amendments are moral statements. The whole Constitution is, except for some procedural matters. The Declaration of Independence is about morality. All men are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Hitler didn't believe that. Stalin didn't believe that. A lot of the contemporary Left don't believe that, and that's why we consider them all to be immoral men.

I disagree. Some legislation has its roots in morality, but it's really more about, again, ensuring the existence and continuation of a free society. Even if you look at things like laws against murder. Murder isn't illegal because murder is wrong or immoral; murder is illegal because having murderers running around your cities and not doing anything about it is detrimental to society.

Same thing. Ensuring the existence of a free society is a moral value judgment. Although I'm curious what you'd think of this - if you and I were stranded on a desert island with no hope of returning to society, would it be immoral if I killed you? (I know it sounds crazy to kill your only human companionship, but maybe I don't want to share limited food, or maybe you're just too annoying. )