Question about Passover

[Delvianna]

Since Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, how do you celebrate passover since the lamb slain was for the symbolic reference to Christ and you do not need to kill or sacrifice? Do you still eat lamb? Do you not eat lamb at all? I often wonder how Messianic Jews (I am not one) celebrate certain feast days like Passover, when it has been fulfilled.

 

[bèlla]

Hebrew for Christians has a lot of resources you might enjoy. Here’s a link to their page on holidays and the Passover is listed. They walk you through its celebration and include transliterated prayers if that appeals. Additional prayers are provided in light of the Messiah.

My personal experience with the holiday is from the Jewish perspective during our time at the synagogue. We aren’t messianic but we’ve maintained our adherence to some principles and modified others. Most notably the calendar. If you want to implement some messianic practices the link I shared will assist you.

~bella

 

[Delvianna]

Hebrew for Christians has a lot of resources you might enjoy. Here’s a link to their page on holidays and the Passover is listed. They walk you through its celebration and include transliterated prayers if that appeals. Additional prayers are provided in light of the Messiah.

My personal experience with the holiday is from the Jewish perspective during our time at the synagogue. We aren’t messianic but we’ve maintained our adherence to some principles and modified others. Most notably the calendar. If you want to implement some messianic practices the link I shared will assist you.

~bella

Thank you muchly! I know of a few Jewish sites but no messianic ones, so this helps!

 

[HARK!]

Since Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, how do you celebrate passover since the lamb slain was for the symbolic reference to Christ and you do not need to kill or sacrifice? Do you still eat lamb? Do you not eat lamb at all? I often wonder how Messianic Jews (I am not one) celebrate certain feast days like Passover, when it has been fulfilled.

I have heard people say that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice; but I have not seen that proclaimed in scripture.

Here is what I have found:

(CLV) Hb 10:10
By which will we are °hallowed through the approach present of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.

(CLV) Hb 10:11
And every chief priest, indeed, °stands ministering day by day, and offering often the same sacrifices, which never can take sins from about us.

(CLV) Hb 10:12
Yet This One, when offering one sacrifice for sins, is seated to a finality at the right hand of God,

First of all, the Passover zebach is not a sin zebach. It's a zebach for a threshold covenant.

You can find my study on that subject here: YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

I use the word Hebrew zebach, instead of the English word "sacrifice;" because translators have taken numerous words form scripture, and translated them all as "sacrifice." This is very deceptive, and creates much confusion as to what Yah really said.

You can find a greater study (still in progress (I will probably be working on this study for the rest of my life.)) here:

MJ Only - YHWH's Table - Table Talk

This subject has much more depth than I first realized. I had certain thoughts as to the order that this study should take when I started it; but as a get deeper into the many facets of this study; I'm seeing the need to start this thread for broader analysis. YHWH's Table (Part 1) Leviticus...

www.christianforums.com

Zebachs are to be offered for so long as there is day and night.



(CLV) Jer 33:18
As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

(CLV) Jer 33:20
Thus says Yahweh: If you could annul My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night so that daytime and night fail to come about in their proper time,

(CLV) Jer 33:21
then also My covenant could be annulled with David My servant, so that he should not come to have a son reigning on his throne, and that with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

Yah's people are called to honor the Passover forever.


PESACH (Passover)

“And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to YHWH throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

Yah gave us very specific instruction on how to observe Pesach, when outside the land, and when inside the land.

As I am outside the land; I follow the instructions for outside the land.

I don't follow the traditions of Rabbinic Judaism; but most Messiancs do,

As far as fulfillment goes we see the Moedim (Feasts, the Sabbath being the first on the list Leviticus 23) fulfilled in cycles.

Passover was fulfilled in the days of Moses; but the sons of Zadok (those who Yah gave the authority to settle disputes concerning his word) would renew their covenant with Yah every year on Passover.

 

[Delvianna]

I have heard people say that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice; but I have not seen that proclaimed in scripture.

Here is what I have found:

(CLV) Hb 10:10
By which will we are °hallowed through the approach present of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.

(CLV) Hb 10:11
And every chief priest, indeed, °stands ministering day by day, and offering often the same sacrifices, which never can take sins from about us.

(CLV) Hb 10:12
Yet This One, when offering one sacrifice for sins, is seated to a finality at the right hand of God,

First of all, the Passover zebach is not a sin zebach. It's a zebach for a threshold covenant.

You can find my study on that subject here: YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

I use the word Hebrew zebach, instead of the English word "sacrifice;" because translators have taken numerous words form scripture, and translated them all as "sacrifice." This is very deceptive, and creates much confusion as to what Yah really said.

You can find a greater study (still in progress (I will probably be working on this study for the rest of my life.)) here:

MJ Only - YHWH's Table - Table Talk

This subject has much more depth than I first realized. I had certain thoughts as to the order that this study should take when I started it; but as a get deeper into the many facets of this study; I'm seeing the need to start this thread for broader analysis. YHWH's Table (Part 1) Leviticus...

www.christianforums.com

Zebachs are to be offered for so long as there is day and night.



(CLV) Jer 33:18
As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

(CLV) Jer 33:20
Thus says Yahweh: If you could annul My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night so that daytime and night fail to come about in their proper time,

(CLV) Jer 33:21
then also My covenant could be annulled with David My servant, so that he should not come to have a son reigning on his throne, and that with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

Yah's people are called to honor the Passover forever.


PESACH (Passover)

“And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to YHWH throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

Yah gave us very specific instruction on how to observe Pesach, when outside the land, and when inside the land.

As I am outside the land; I follow the instructions for outside the land.

I don't follow the traditions of Rabbinic Judaism; but most Messiancs do,

As far as fulfillment goes we see the Moedim (Feasts, the Sabbath being the first on the list Leviticus 23) fulfilled in cycles.

Passover was fulfilled in the days of Moses; but the sons of Zadok (those who Yah gave the authority to settle disputes concerning his word) would renew their covenant with Yah every year on Passover.

1Pet 1 (NKJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁸ knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
¹⁹ but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

“He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”
— Heb 9:26 (NKJV)

“For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”
— Heb 10:14 (NKJV)

“The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”
— John 1:29 (NKJV)


I understand to keep Passover forever, but because of the verses I shared, how do you fix the dilemma between the need for sacrifice of passover and no longer needing it?

 

[HARK!]

1Pet 1 (NKJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁸ knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
¹⁹ but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

“He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”
— Heb 9:26 (NKJV)

“For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”
— Heb 10:14 (NKJV)

“The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”
— John 1:29 (NKJV)


I understand to keep Passover forever, but because of the verses I shared, how do you fix the dilemma between the need for sacrifice of passover and no longer needing it?

Again, the Passover sacrifice is not a sin sacrifice. It's a covenant sacrifice. Did you read the studies that I linked?

If the Passover sacrifice was a sin sacrifice; then there would have been no need for Yah to instruct Moses on Sinai, concerning sin sacrifices.

 

[Delvianna]

Again, the Passover sacrifice is not a sin sacrifice. It's a covenant sacrifice. Did you read the studies that I linked?

If the Passover sacrifice was a sin sacrifice; then there would have been no need for Yah to instruct Moses on Sinai, concerning sin sacrifices.

If Passover wasn't a sin sacrifice, why do the verses I give link Jesus to being the sin sacrifice? Like passover being a symbolic set up for what Jesus does later. I'm honestly not trying to argue, it just doesn't make sense to me. So if I'm understanding you correctly... Because God doesn't specifically say "this is a sin sacrifice", then the sacrifice in general is considered still okay to do?

 

[HARK!]

If Passover wasn't a sin sacrifice, why do the verses I give link Jesus to being the sin sacrifice?

You state that as a matter of fact. I asked you in my last post if you had read the studies that I have already provided for you.

Let's review.

1Pet 1 (NKJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁸ knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
¹⁹ but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

(CLV) 1Pt 1:18
being aware that not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, were you ransomed from your vain behavior, handed down by tradition from the fathers,

(CLV) 1Pt 1:19
but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a flawless and unspotted lamb,

Nothing about a sin sacrifice here. This speaks of a ransom from vain behavior.

Sin sacrifices are not ransoms. Many Christians are very confused about sin sacrifices. They aren't payment for sin. Yah wants us to repent. Repentance was the message that Yah gave us from the beginning. If we repent; Yah will forget our sins, with or without a sacrifice. That is the good news. The Prophets gave us the same message of repentance. That same message was at the root of Yochanan the Immerser's ministry; as well as Yahshua's. The message has been consistent all along.

“He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”
— Heb 9:26 (NKJV)

Did you read this in context?

(CLV) Hb 9:25
Nor yet is it that He may be offering Himself often, even as the chief priest is entering into the holies of holies year by year by the blood of others,

This speaks of Yom Kippur, not Pesach.

(CLV) Hb 9:24
For Christ entered not into holy places made by hands, representations of the true, but into heaven itself, now to be disclosed to the face of God for our sakes.

This speaks of Yahshua as the Kohen Gadol. not the goats.

(CLV) Hb 9:25
Nor yet is it that He may be offering Himself often, even as the chief priest is entering into the holies of holies year by year by the blood of others,

This speaks of Yom Kippur, not Pesach.

(CLV) Hb 9:26
since then He must often be suffering from the disruption of the world, yet now, once, at the conclusion of the eons, for the repudiation of sin through His sacrifice, is He manifest

.
repudiate /rĭ-pyoo͞′dē-āt″/

transitive verb​

1. To reject the validity or authority of.
2. To reject emphatically as unfounded, untrue, or unjust.
   "repudiated the accusation."
3. To refuse to recognize or pay.

Yes Yahshua rejected sin; and he told us to reject it too.

(CLV) Hb 9:27
And, in as much as it is reserved to the men to be dying once, yet after this a judging,

(CLV) Hb 9:28
thus Christ also, being offered once for the bearing of the sins of many, will be seen a second time, by those awaiting Him, apart from sin, for salvation, through faith.

Those apart from sin would be those who are betrothed (a contract, a covenant) to Yahshua


(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:5
And you are aware that He was manifested that He should be taking away our sins, and in Him is not sin.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:6
Everyone who is remaining in Him is not sinning. Everyone who is sinning sees Him not, neither knows Him.

Faith:

The word faith in Hebrew is not an abstract concept derived for Greek philosophy. It has a concrete meaning that could be translated as faithfulness, or obedience.

(CLV) Ro 12:1
I am entreating you, then, brethren, by the pities of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice, living, holy, well pleasing to God, your logical divine service,

“For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”
— Heb 10:14 (NKJV)

You might want to review this study again, at least on a superficial level:

MJ Only - YHWH's Table - Table Talk

This subject has much more depth than I first realized. I had certain thoughts as to the order that this study should take when I started it; but as a get deeper into the many facets of this study; I'm seeing the need to start this thread for broader analysis. YHWH's Table (Part 1) Leviticus...

www.christianforums.com

Offering (קרבן) (Qorban) and Sacrifice (זבח) (Zebach) are two different words.

“The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”
— John 1:29 (NKJV)

That's right! He doesn't just sweep it under the carpet. He takes it out of the house.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:6
Everyone who is remaining in Him is not sinning. Everyone who is sinning sees Him not, neither knows Him.

Because God doesn't specifically say "this is a sin sacrifice", then the sacrifice in general is considered still okay to do?

All of YHW'H's Moedim are eternal; and he gave us very specific instructions on how to honor them.

(CLV) Num 9:13
Yet the man, he who is clean and bis not on the road and forbears to observe the passover, that soul will be cut off from its kinsmen because he has not brought near the approach (Offering (קרבן) (Qorban)) present of Yahweh at its appointed time; that man shall bear his sin.

Here he calls it a qorban. Nowhere have I found a sin sacrifice referred to as a qorban; but a qorban applies perfectly to a threshold covenant.

I might add that the penalty for ignoring this instruction is rather severe.


They were honored according to his word in the past. They will be honored according to his word in the kingdom to come.

(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices (זבח) (Zebach) They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.


I did not see where he said that there will be a time period of lawlessness that he is OK with, nor was such a nonexistent period defined.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

 

[Delvianna]

You state that as a matter of fact. I asked you in my last post if you had read the studies that I have already provided for you.

Notice I said the word "IF". The word IF does not state something is "matter of fact".

Did you read this in context?

You might want to review this study again, at least on a superficial level:

While I appreciate you took the time to reply, you're pretty hostile about it, so I'm just going to choose not to respond as I don't feel like this conversation is anywhere close to being edifying. Hope you have a blessed day.

 

[HARK!]

Notice I said the word "IF". The word IF does not state something is "matter of fact".

Let's not jump to conclusions.

I was talking about this part:

why do the verses I give link Jesus to being the sin sacrifice?

Only one of those verses even mentioned the word sacrifice; and that verse can be interpreted in more than one way.

 

[HARK!]

While I appreciate you took the time to reply, you're pretty hostile about it, so I'm just going to choose not to respond as I don't feel like this conversation is anywhere close to being edifying. Hope you have a blessed day.

I'm sorry that you feel that my imparting my understanding to you is, hostile, and not edifying; but please be careful not to complain about my trying to help you.

The High Priest makes the sin sacrifice on Yom Kippur, Compare Judgement day.

That is right after Yom Teruah, (Feast of Trumpets) Compare the final trump.

It is also right before Sukot (The feast of tents.} Compare the Chuppah that is used in the wedding ceremony.

Compare (יחנו) which means to camp. Notice that the root of this word is (חנ) It is often translated as "grace;" but a more accurate translation would be "beauty." In Ancient Hebrew the otiot depict a fence and a seed. Yah separates his sons from what is outside his fence. Yah protects his sons.

While we're at it let's look at Abba.

Aleph is the first letter of the Hebrew Alephbeyt. I don't think that this happened randomly. In Ancient Hebrew the Aleph depicts the head of an ox. It represents strength or headship.

Beyt is the second letter of the Hebrew Alephbeyt. I don't think that this happened randomly either. In Ancient Hebrew the Beyt depicts a tent.

So Aleph (is the head) of the house (beyt), the house's (beyt) head (Aleph); just as Yahshua is the headship of his bride.

"Feasts" is a very poor translation of the word "Moedim."

A much better translation would be both the words, appointment, and rehearsal.

I believe that Yah calls us to these rehearsals year after year; so that we will continue to grow in our understanding of his plans for us.