Charlie Kirk shooting suspect Tyler Robinson could face firing squad

[rjs330]

We used to have presidents who stayed out of things like this. In fact, I remember when a young man, Trayvon Martin was killed and President Obama weighed in on the case it cause quite a stink on the right. People accused him of being divisive and fanning the flames of racism in the country.

Thats because the left was making it a RACIST thing. So I guess we can say once again Obama was the great divider that started a lot of the division. He weighed in on more than one incident.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Thats because the left was making it a RACIST thing. So I guess we can say once again Obama was the great divider that started a lot of the division. He weighed in on more than one incident.

We don’t only have racial divisions but also political divisions and in that aspect Trump has certainly been just as bad if not much worse at pushing people further apart.

 

[rebornfree]

Unless Charlie Kirk is a public official, Tyler doesn't qualify under Utah State law.

Yes, Reagan was shot by a man, John Hinkley, who wanted to impress the young actress Jodi Foster (who was not impressed). He got out of prison in 2017 and became fully free in 2021.

George HW Bush had a gun pointed at him by would-be assassin Squeaky Fromme, of Manson Family fame. The gun didn't go off. She was granted parole in 2008 and released from parole in 2009.

Someone threw a shoe at George W Bush, but missed. I don't know what became of him.

I think under Utah law, his crime doesn't qualify for the death penalty because although Kirk was a public figure, he was not a public official nor a cop, nor a child - the penalty depends on the status of the victim(s).

Could he be tried under federal law, rather than state law? That, I don't know.

Thank you for the information. I didn't know about Reagen being shot, and I was in my thirties when he was President. Maybe the news didn't reach us here or I've forgotten. All I can remember is that Margaret Thatcher seemed to get on well with him. As for the Bush Presidents being attacked. It must have been terrible to have a gun pointed at you. Thank God it didn't go off. A shoe is a bit less worrying but still not pleasant.

I hope Taylor is tried under state law then, particularly in view of his age and all the hate that has been spewing around during the time that he has been growing up.

 

[bèlla]

No, of course you are not responsible Bella, nor are any of us responsible for his actual decision, but I think that society is partly to blame for creating the sorts of conditions in which some people make those bad choices. We live in a fallen world.

You are given too much credence to the problems and ignoring the obvious. There are millions of young people who grew up in the same era but they don’t become murderers. They address their disagreement like others do. Through discourse and activism. His parents are christian and republican. Now what? At what point are we held accountable for our actions?

He took a shot in a crowd full of people and others could have been hurt. This isn’t a mixed up kid who fell into the wrong group. He’s a killer and should pay the price.

We don’t always get a do over in life. Sometimes our mistakes have serious consequences.

~bella

 

[Chrystal-J]

Unless Charlie Kirk is a public official, Tyler doesn't qualify under Utah State law.

They're saying they're going to charge him federally. Plus Utah can impose the death penalty for "The murder being "especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or exceptionally depraved."

 

[DaisyDay]

They're saying they're going to charge him federally.

If so, I don't see Utah fighting for it.

 

[Chrystal-J]

If so, I don't see Utah fighting for it.

I edited to add on my last post that the death penalty can be imposed in Utah for:

• The murder being "especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or exceptionally depraved."

 

[DaisyDay]

I edited to add on my last post that the death penalty can be imposed in Utah for:

• The murder being "especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or exceptionally depraved."

I don't see how this, one quick clean shot, would qualify as that.

 

[Clare73]

https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/charlie-kirk-shooting-tyler-robinson-firing-squad/

I felt that this aspect of the conversation deserves its own thread, as it's a specific facet of the conversation that shouldn't get lost in the sea of the other matters relating to this topic.


With the high-profile killings that have recently happened, would death penalty being carried out on Tyler Robinson (should he be convicted) be warranted?

I ask that question with the caveat.

Normally I'm against the death penalty. But in this instance, would the death penalty being carried out by firing squad be a "pressure release valve" of sorts that could stave off more extreme outcomes (that could cause even more deaths) resulting from pent up "need for retributive justice"?


I think of what Obama (and a bipartisan plurality of politicians) said regarding his decision to give Seal Team Six the "go ahead" to take out Bin Laden. (and no, I'm not comparing Tyler to Bin Laden in terms of the scale of crimes, just using it to highlight the overall concept)

The decision was described with comments in the theme of "justice and closure". (emphasis on the closure part)

Now, the decision could've just as easily been "we'll find the right time to capture him, and bring him back to the US to stand trial, and give him life in prison", but they obviously went the other way on that.

Is that a direct appeal to the baser urges of human nature and the "need for vengeance as a form of closure"? Obviously...

But I think they understood that "he's just going to locked up forever" wouldn't have given a lot of people the same level of closure as knowing that a bunch of Seal Team Six guys lit him up like a Christmas Tree.

I do think one can make a pragmatic case for why the death penalty is the lesser of evils (in the long term) in some specific cases.


If people don't get that sense that "actual justice has been done", they'll start finding irrational ways to seek out that sense of closure, and you'll start getting a bunch of Bernie Goetz copycats on the subways.


Thoughts?

I think justice should be swift and final, not the least of all to demonstrate the consequences of premeditated murder.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I don't see how this, one quick clean shot, would qualify as that.

He was shot dead in front of his family in an assassination over free speech. That's pretty heinous.

 

[DaisyDay]

He was shot dead in front of his family in an assassination over free speech. That's pretty heinous.

As far as murders go, this one was mild - if I were to choose a method for myself, I’d choose that. Remember how Daniel Pearl was beheaded slowly with a handsaw, video taped, to send a message - that’s what I call heinous.

 

[Chrystal-J]

As far as murders go, this one was mild - if I were to choose a method for myself, I’d choose that. Remember how Daniel Pearl was beheaded slowly with a handsaw, video taped, to send a message - that’s what I call heinous.

Gary Gilmore was executed for "just" shooting people quickly.

 

[rebornfree]

I don't see how this, one quick clean shot, would qualify as that.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[rebornfree]

I'm not saying that the murderer should go unpunished but I am worried that a 22-year old, who was growing up in an era of political hate, will either be executed as a deterrent to others or because the victim was a friend of Trump. That is not justice.

 

[DaisyDay]

Gary Gilmore was executed for "just" shooting people quickly.

That's not accurate as he shot people while committing other crimes, robbery; he killed multiple people and requested the death sentence.

Gary Mark Gilmore #1

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm not saying that the murderer should go unpunished but I am worried that a 22-year old, who was growing up in an era of political hate, will either be executed as a deterrent to others or because the victim was a friend of Trump. That is not justice.

What do you believe would be justice for someone who premeditatedly assassinates an unarmed person who is simply answering questions on a college campus?

 

[Hans Blaster]

What do you believe would be justice for someone who premeditatedly assassinates an unarmed person who is simply answering questions on a college campus?

I'll go with whatever is the penalty for such a crime in your state.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'll go with whatever is the penalty for such a crime in your state.

Right now it appears he is being charged with aggravated murder in Utah, along with a couple other charges. Utah has the death penalty, so that might come into play in the penalty phase of the trial.

 

[Hentenza]

I don't see how this, one quick clean shot, would qualify as that.

So all planned assassinations with one quick, clean shot do not qualify for a charge of first degree murder with the capital punishment option on the table?

 

[wing2000]

If there's a state where the firing squad could be employed, it's Utah:

"Utah was the first state to resume executions after capital punishment was reinstated in the United States in 1976, when Gary Gilmore was executed by a firing squad on January 17, 1977.

Utah is the only state to have executed inmates by firing squad in the modern era."

Utah | Death Penalty Information Center

Timeline 1973 - The death penalty is reinstated in Utah following Furman v. Georgia . 1977 - Utah executes Gary Gilmore and becomes the first state to…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

However, lethal injection is the preferred method. Utah has codified some exceptions:

Utah Code Section 77-18-113

le.utah.gov