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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2)

Oompa Loompa

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I doubt it. They knew who they were killing when they assassinated the General. As of yet, we only know that they assumed the boat was full of drug traffickers.
I argue that the Navy knew who they were killing when they blew the boat out of the water. As of yet, YOU only know what you know because the intelligence organizations are not obligated to disclose anything to you. I trust the Navy and the intelligence sources KNEW more than you, that these were confirmed drug traffickers.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Well, you need to be honest with yourself. You dont know either.
Where have I said otherwise? I'm not the one making assertions about who or what was on that boat.
Maybe it was carrying a load of rocks so valuable it has to be carried inside11 men's heads
Or maybe they were a bunch of kids on a school trip. The point is that none of us knows who or what was on the boat because the government has done nothing other than assert - without providing any evidence - that they were all drug traffickers. And, because they're all dead and the boat is destroyed, we have no way to verify that.
 
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RDKirk

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I argue that the Navy knew who they were killing when they blew the boat out of the water. As of yet, YOU only know what you know because the intelligence organizations are not obligated to disclose anything to you. I trust the Navy and the intelligence sources KNEW more than you, that these were confirmed drug traffickers.
As I said early in the thread, it's entirely possible that specific boat had been seen before in US waters operating in ways known to be common to drug traffickers. There are plenty of vessels in the littoral waters of Venezuela and other nations that would be targets if the Navy were acting completely indiscriminately...they would be sinking a boat every two or three days, if they were operating indiscriminately. There's no indication that's what they're doing, and I'm not very worried about the identity of this particular vessel.

That still leaves open the legal question of whether the president should handle the situation in this particular manner.

But my point has been: We have put Trump into a position to do whatever he wants to do without anyone able to stop him.

And Democrats were as much an imbecilic party to this situation as Republicans. I've pointed that out in these forums years ago.

So, at this point, I'm not clutching my pearls.
 
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Pommer

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accidental double quote
[if you delete the words in the top quote box, (even though the poster’s avatar stays, once there isn’t any text, the system will excise the quote box.]
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Where have I said otherwise? I'm not the one making assertions about who or what was on that boat
Just the United States government who has an army of intelligence analysts and billions of dollars worth of survalence assets and no need or desire to share anything with you. My point is that just because you demand evidence or proof, they are not required, nor are you entitled to receive such evidence.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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accidental double quote

It seems like players in Iran & Venezuela narco connection are a result ( of many) from the old post WW 2 order America was partly sucked into. We let the Shah of Iran fall. France actively supported Khomeini. The US had a role in drugs & illegal immigration etc. All stuff that Trump genuinely opposes with his America 1st outlook which the perpetual Cold War wing preserves as the US decays, illegal immigration prospers, Islamic terrorism thrives etc.

Trump’s overall outlook is actually ok but some of his strategy seems dangerous but so is the status quo that he wants to replace.
I remember the Obama administration sending a bunch of guns to the cartels. I believe it was called "Operation Fast and Furious." Or did that get thrown down the memory hole too.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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And so you look upon it with derision?

Why? Those executive are killing INNOCENT Americans.

Drug addicts CHOOSE to put that nonsense in their veins. You seem to suggest that the killing of "innocents" is an important factor on taking action.

I mean, you aren't using a known definition for homicide either though when you chose to defend that position.
God forbid you ever have a child who becomes a drug addict and dies from an overdose of the poisons these cartels are pumping into this country. Otherwise, you would have a completely different tone.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Just the United States government who has an army of intelligence analysts and billions of dollars worth of survalence assets and no need or desire to share anything with you. My point is that just because you demand evidence or proof, they are not required, nor are you entitled to receive such evidence.
Generally speaking, someone (outside of members of the Executive branch) is entitled to receive that evidence. At minimum, the members of the Intelligence Committees for accountability purposes. And, I'd argue that the government publicizing the action does entitle the public to know who we just executed. Generally speaking, when the government announces that it has hit some high-ranking terrorist with a drone strike, it also tells the public who it was and specific things that person had done that might justify the strike. I don't see this as significantly different.

However, what I find far more concerning than the government's reticence to release any information is the attitude that some members of the administration (and people here on the forums) have taken when asked about it.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Even the top Nazis got a trial, with a good amount of them sentenced to prison or even aqcuitted. If it were up to people like some people on the right today, all they would have gotten was a bullet to the head.
Yeah and then where would our space program be?
 
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rambot

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God forbid you ever have a child who becomes a drug addict and dies from an overdose of the poisons these cartels are pumping into this country. Otherwise, you would have a completely different tone.
While my kids don't, For almost a decade I worked with EXACTLY those kids.

Those kids didn't get addicted to drugs because a Columbian cartel. They got addicted because their parents were garbage and they had no community around them.

There are drug production labs in the US. You might not believe it but I wouldn't be a fan of the wholesale bombing of their drug labs either. I'd rather they were caught, arrested, tried and imprisoned to rot.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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While my kids don't, For almost a decade I worked with EXACTLY those kids.

Those kids didn't get addicted to drugs because a Columbian cartel. They got addicted because their parents were garbage and they had no community around them.

There are drug production labs in the US. You might not believe it but I wouldn't be a fan of the wholesale bombing of their drug labs either. I'd rather they were caught, arrested, tried and imprisoned to rot.
Poor poor drug dealers. Their only fault was providing the poisons to those troubled teens because they had horrible parents.
 
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Yarddog

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I argue that the Navy knew who they were killing when they blew the boat out of the water.
I would like to think that they did but there are no reports of this, as of yet

As of yet, YOU only know what you know because the intelligence organizations are not obligated to disclose anything to you.
I didn't say that they did but reports are coming out of Venezuela, so we would have known about it.
I trust the Navy and the intelligence sources KNEW more than you, that these were confirmed drug traffickers.
I don't trust anyone in this administration. But the videos that have been released show no attempt to follow rules of engagement. Hopefully, the Navy will release something to show they acted properly.
 
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RDKirk

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I don't trust anyone in this administration. But the videos that have been released show no attempt to follow rules of engagement. Hopefully, the Navy will release something to show they acted properly.
If I were the Navy Chief of Naval Operations, I wouldn't say a doggoned word about the rules of engagement specified by the SECNAV and the President. That's for them to reveal...or not.

That's an absolutely no-win situation unless the SECNAV has given me the words to say.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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If I were the Navy Chief of Naval Operations, I wouldn't say a doggoned word about the rules of engagement specified by the SECNAV and the President. That's for them to reveal...or not.

That's an absolutely no-win situation unless the SECNAV has given me the words to say.
Seems that the DNC have specialized it taking the "no-win" situations as if they are actively trying to martyr their party for their cause. Which, in this case, is defending narco-terrorists. Note, I am speaking of the party, not the individuals who elect them.
 
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Yarddog

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If I were the Navy Chief of Naval Operations, I wouldn't say a doggoned word about the rules of engagement specified by the SECNAV and the President. That's for them to reveal...or not.

That's an absolutely no-win situation unless the SECNAV has given me the words to say.
I totally agree.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Poor poor drug dealers. Their only fault was providing the poisons to those troubled teens because they had horrible parents.
So based on your post, God forbid you have a child that is killed from a drug overdose, we will all just blame your poor parenting for their death? God forbid we actually hold the people accountable for providing said poisons to your child? That is the hill you want to do on? This is why the DNC is dying.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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I never said that I was but Congress is.
Why do you think congress isn't doing anything? Probably because they have seen the evidence and cannot argue against it. Sure, you will find activist TDS stragglers making publicity stunts. But none of them will show any evidence that the strick was illegitimate or illegal. Just heart-string pulling.
 
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Yarddog

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