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Gibbons Decline & Fall & Christianity

Amo2

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That's quite a story, and judging people with a lot of speculation. Leave the judging to Jesus. You would do well to study the life of Saint Gregory the Great and Saint Benedict and the monks that came after them.
Deny all the recorded history it pleases you to deny, and look at only that which pleases you. I am of course not making you read these posts, nor are stating recorded and verified facts of history just telling stories. I am not denying that there have been good Christinas of every denomination in the past. Just pointing out the abuses of a great many of them as well, and the main problem connected to such abuses and persecutions, in churches which unite with the state. They are apostate in seeking and establishing relations with the powers that be of this world, in the place of the Holy Spirit of God by way of conviction and conversion.

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

How much more a friend of the world can one become, than to have illicit spiritual relations with the ones running it, or worse yet choose to run it yourself. Using the power of mandates and punishments upon all who disagree with your teachings and practices. Which neither our Lord nor any of His apostles taught, promoted in any way shape or form, or exemplified.
 
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Valletta

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Deny all the recorded history it pleases you to deny, and look at only that which pleases you. I am of course not making you read these posts, nor are stating recorded and verified facts of history just telling stories. I am not denying that there have been good Christinas of every denomination in the past. Just pointing out the abuses of a great many of them as well, and the main problem connected to such abuses and persecutions, in churches which unite with the state. They are apostate in seeking and establishing relations with the powers that be of this world, in the place of the Holy Spirit of God by way of conviction and conversion.

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

How much more a friend of the world can one become, than to have illicit spiritual relations with the ones running it, or worse yet choose to run it yourself. Using the power of mandates and punishments upon all who disagree with your teachings and practices. Which neither our Lord nor any of His apostles taught, promoted in any way shape or form, or exemplified.
I am not denying the sins of anyone. Fortunately Jesus was always there with his Church, bringing forth saints when they were needed. I don't think we as mere humans should be judging any generation as a whole.
 
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Amo2

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I am not denying the sins of anyone. Fortunately Jesus was always there with his Church, bringing forth saints when they were needed. I don't think we as mere humans should be judging any generation as a whole.
I'm certainly not judging any generation as a whole. I am presenting history regarding the ongoing struggles of God's professed peoples as corporate bodies, regarding their and humanities unending struggles with our fallen natures. These apostate times among the professed peoples of God which they have dealt with all throughout the history recorded in the scriptures. Which God has seen fit to record for our benefit that we might not repeat the failings of our fathers. The bible faithfully records the sins and short comings of even the greatest biblical figures, the nation of Israel itself, and even several problems arising during the days of the apostles themselves.

Identifying the root of some these apostasies will help us today, avoid repeating these mistakes of history. God warned Israel of the dire effects of choosing a king to rule over them in the place of Himself through the direction of His chosen prophets. The mistake of course, was handing over control and rule of one's self to another fallen sinful human being such as ourselves. The demoralizing effects of which began to take place rapidly unto first open, then widely accepted, and eventually mandated apostasy and rebellion against the commandments and teachings of God. A process that has repeated itself many times over during this New covenant age as well, when professed Christians have attempted to amalgamate Christ's spiritual kingdom with the temporal kingdoms and or kings of this world. In either combining forces with them unto empowerment, bowing before their unholy teachings or mandates, or worst of all taking control of temporal governments themselves. All leading directly to apostasy and persecutions.

John 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? 34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? 35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
 
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Valletta

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I'm certainly not judging any generation as a whole. I am presenting history regarding the ongoing struggles of God's professed peoples as corporate bodies, regarding their and humanities unending struggles with our fallen natures. These apostate times among the professed peoples of God which they have dealt with all throughout the history recorded in the scriptures. Which God has seen fit to record for our benefit that we might not repeat the failings of our fathers. The bible faithfully records the sins and short comings of even the greatest biblical figures, the nation of Israel itself, and even several problems arising during the days of the apostles themselves.

Identifying the root of some these apostasies will help us today, avoid repeating these mistakes of history. God warned Israel of the dire effects of choosing a king to rule over them in the place of Himself thought the direction of His chosen prophets. The mistake of course, was handing over control and rule of one's self to another fallen sinful human being such as ourselves. The demoralizing effects of which began to take place rapidly unto first open, then widely accepted, and eventually mandated apostasy and rebellion against the commandments and teachings of God. A process that has repeated itself many times over during this New covenant age as well, when professed Christians have attempted to amalgamate Christ's spiritual kingdom with the temporal kingdoms and or kings of this world. In either combining forces with them unto empowerment, bowing before their unholy teachings or mandates, or worst of all taking control of temporal governments themselves. All leading directly to apostasy and persecutions.

John 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? 34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? 35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Don't follow just one man's take on history.
 
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Valletta

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Like it or not, pontiffs and purple were both signs of religious, political, and or divine power before Roman Catholicism employed both. Doing so as the new Imperially mandated, sponsored, and enforced religion of the empire. It is not called the Roman Catholic Church for no reason.

I just told you that purple is one of the many many colors used by the Catholic Church, we use purple during Lent because the kingship of Jesus was mocked by the pagans. Do you condemn others in your religion or condemn yourself when you dare wear purple? Why just the hatred against Catholics? Many many Catholics were martyred by the Roman Empire, your author gives them little respect. Once Catholics were no longer being persecuted some devout Catholics chose the life of hermits, eventually coming together and thus came monks and monasteries. Those monks preached and preserved the Word of God over many many centuries, if not for them we may have lost the Bible, so you and I owe them a great debt. The name of our Church is the Catholic Church, the Latin, or Roman rite, is by far the most popular. Within a matter of centuries the vast majority of Christians no longer spoke Greek but instead spoke Latin, that's why Catholics translated the Bible into the common or "vulgar" language of the people, Latin, thus the Latin "Vulgate." We're going to keep using ashes for Lent and using the color purple to honor the sacrifice of Jesus at Lent, and keep trying to leave the judging of those in the past and judging of other religions to Jesus.
 
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Amo2

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Don't follow just one man's take on history.
First, this thread is - GIBBONS DECLINE & FALL & CHRISTIANITY. So there is that. Second, Gibbons as well as all good historians, depended upon and quoted many historians before them, so few if any good historical accounts are actually one persons account. Third, I have already requested several times, for all and any to supply reasons and references for those objections they might have as to the accuracy of Gibbons quotes supplied here. To be examined for accuracy themselves as well.
 
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Amo2

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I just told you that purple is one of the many many colors used by the Catholic Church, we use purple during Lent because the kingship of Jesus was mocked by the pagans. Do you condemn others in your religion or condemn yourself when you dare wear purple? Why just the hatred against Catholics? Many many Catholics were martyred by the Roman Empire, your author gives them little respect. Once Catholics were no longer being persecuted some devout Catholics chose the life of hermits, eventually coming together and thus came monks and monasteries. Those monks preached and preserved the Word of God over many many centuries, if not for them we may have lost the Bible, so you and I owe them a great debt. The name of our Church is the Catholic Church, the Latin, or Roman rite, is by far the most popular. Within a matter of centuries the vast majority of Christians no longer spoke Greek but instead spoke Latin, that's why Catholics translated the Bible into the common or "vulgar" language of the people, Latin, thus the Latin "Vulgate." We're going to keep using ashes for Lent and using the color purple to honor the sacrifice of Jesus at Lent, and keep trying to leave the judging of those in the past and judging of other religions to Jesus.
Purple was the color of royalty and elitism within the Roman Empire. If you want to make no connection between that and the fact that it is a very important color of the Roman Catholic church as well, so be it. Nevertheless, Those of us who see it differently, I think have good reason to do so. In the past the Roman Catholic church, its clergy, and Popes, have declared that every human being should be subject to the Pope. Placing the Pope therefore above all others, then the priesthood and clergy as above all others as well, as they all serve him. This is most certainly an elitist claim of royalty. Emphasis in the following quote is mine.

UNAM SANCTAM

Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302

Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.

We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23- 24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.

However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other.

For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

Apart from the obvious connection to royalty and elitism declared above, which would certainly entitle a Roman to the colors of purple, the Catholic Church today is nothing like the Catholic Church of the times Gibbon addresses in most of the quotes thus far. These are simply parts of the histories involved in the Church of Rome finally declaring the above as her heights of power and influence grew to ungodly ends. During which time her beliefs changed and evolved as well. So the situation and facts of the matter are not so simple as you have stated them above. Do you agree today, with the above papal bull?
 
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Valletta

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First, this thread is - GIBBONS DECLINE & FALL & CHRISTIANITY. So there is that. Second, Gibbons as well as all good historians, depended upon and quoted many historians before them, so few if any good historical accounts are actually one persons account. Third, I have already requested several times, for all and any to supply reasons and references for those objections they might have as to the accuracy of Gibbons quotes supplied here. To be examined for accuracy themselves as well.
Obviously the originator of the "purple" story either had no idea that the Catholic Church uses a number of seasonal colors or it was a deliberate and hateful attempt to falsely malign the Catholic Church. That such tales get passed down is sad, particularly by those who identify themselves as "historians." This is just the kind of thing that prevents good honest Christian dialogue. The Devil never sleeps.
 
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Amo2

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The temples of the Roman empire were deserted, or destroyed; but the ingenious superstition of the Pagans still attempted to elude the laws of Theodosius, by which all sacrifices had been severely prohibited. The inhabitants of the country, whose conduct was less opposed to the eye of malicious curiosity, disguised their religious, under the appearance of convivial, meetings. On the days of solemn festivals, they assembled in great numbers under the spreading shade of some consecrated trees; sheep and oxen were slaughtered and roasted; and this rural entertainment was sanctified by the use of incense, and by the hymns which were sung in honor of the gods. But it was alleged, that, as no part of the animal was made a burnt-offering, as no altar was provided to receive the blood, and as the previous oblation of salt cakes, and the concluding ceremony of libations, were carefully omitted, these festal meetings did not involve the guests in the guilt, or penalty, of an illegal sacrifice. Whatever might be the truth of the facts, or the merit of the distinction, these vain pretences were swept away by the last edict of Theodosius, which inflicted a deadly wound on the superstition of the Pagans. This prohibitory law is expressed in the most absolute and comprehensive terms. “It is our will and pleasure,” says the emperor, “that none of our subjects, whether magistrates or private citizens, however exalted or however humble may be their rank and condition, shall presume, in any city or in any place, to worship an inanimate idol, by the sacrifice of a guiltless victim.” The act of sacrificing, and the practice of divination by the entrails of the victim, are declared (without any regard to the object of the inquiry) a crime of high treason against the state, which can be expiated only by the death of the guilty. The rites of Pagan superstition, which might seem less bloody and atrocious, are abolished, as highly injurious to the truth and honor of religion; luminaries, garlands, frankincense, and libations of wine, are specially enumerated and condemned; and the harmless claims of the domestic genius, of the household gods, are included in this rigorous proscription. The use of any of these profane and illegal ceremonies, subjects the offender to the forfeiture of the house or estate, where they have been performed; and if he has artfully chosen the property of another for the scene of his impiety, he is compelled to discharge, without delay, a heavy fine of twenty-five pounds of gold, or more than one thousand pounds sterling. A fine, not less considerable, is imposed on the connivance of the secret enemies of religion, who shall neglect the duty of their respective stations, either to reveal, or to punish, the guilt of idolatry. Such was the persecuting spirit of the laws of Theodosius, which were repeatedly enforced by his sons and grandsons, with the loud and unanimous applause of the Christian world.

In the cruel reigns of Decius and Dioclesian, Christianity had been proscribed, as a revolt from the ancient and hereditary religion of the empire; and the unjust suspicions which were entertained of a dark and dangerous faction, were, in some measure, countenanced by the inseparable union and rapid conquests of the Catholic church. But the same excuses of fear and ignorance cannot be applied to the Christian emperors who violated the precepts of humanity and of the Gospel.
The experience of ages had betrayed the weakness, as well as folly, of Paganism; the light of reason and of faith had already exposed, to the greatest part of mankind, the vanity of idols; and the declining sect, which still adhered to their worship, might have been permitted to enjoy, in peace and obscurity, the religious costumes of their ancestors. Had the Pagans been animated by the undaunted zeal which possessed the minds of the primitive believers, the triumph of the Church must have been stained with blood; and the martyrs of Jupiter and Apollo might have embraced the glorious opportunity of devoting their lives and fortunes at the foot of their altars. But such obstinate zeal was not congenial to the loose and careless temper of Polytheism. The violent and repeated strokes of the orthodox princes were broken by the soft and yielding substance against which they were directed; and the ready obedience of the Pagans protected them from the pains and penalties of the Theodosian Code. Instead of asserting, that the authority of the gods was superior to that of the emperor, they desisted, with a plaintive murmur, from the use of those sacred rites which their sovereign had condemned. If they were sometimes tempted by a sally of passion, or by the hopes of concealment, to indulge their favorite superstition, their humble repentance disarmed the severity of the Christian magistrate, and they seldom refused to atone for their rashness, by submitting, with some secret reluctance, to the yoke of the Gospel. The churches were filled with the increasing multitude of these unworthy proselytes, who had conformed, from temporal motives, to the reigning religion; and whilst they devoutly imitated the postures, and recited the prayers, of the faithful, they satisfied their conscience by the silent and sincere invocation of the gods of antiquity. If the Pagans wanted patience to suffer they wanted spirit to resist; and the scattered myriads, who deplored the ruin of the temples, yielded, without a contest, to the fortune of their adversaries. The disorderly opposition of the peasants of Syria, and the populace of Alexandria, to the rage of private fanaticism, was silenced by the name and authority of the emperor. The Pagans of the West, without contributing to the elevation of Eugenius, disgraced, by their partial attachment, the cause and character of the usurper. The clergy vehemently exclaimed, that he aggravated the crime of rebellion by the guilt of apostasy; that, by his permission, the altar of victory was again restored; and that the idolatrous symbols of Jupiter and Hercules were displayed in the field, against the invincible standard of the cross. But the vain hopes of the Pagans were soon annihilated by the defeat of Eugenius; and they were left exposed to the resentment of the conqueror, who labored to deserve the favor of Heaven by the extirpation of idolatry.

A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master, who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the last extremes of injustice and oppression. Theodosius might undoubtedly have proposed to his Pagan subjects the alternative of baptism or of death; and the eloquent Libanius has praised the moderation of a prince, who never enacted, by any positive law, that all his subjects should immediately embrace and practise the religion of their sovereign. The profession of Christianity was not made an essential qualification for the enjoyment of the civil rights of society, nor were any peculiar hardships imposed on the sectaries, who credulously received the fables of Ovid, and obstinately rejected the miracles of the Gospel. The palace, the schools, the army, and the senate, were filled with declared and devout Pagans; they obtained, without distinction, the civil and military honors of the empire.Theodosius distinguished his liberal regard for virtue and genius by the consular dignity, which he bestowed on Symmachus; and by the personal friendship which he expressed to Libanius; and the two eloquent apologists of Paganism were never required either to change or to dissemble their religious opinions. The Pagans were indulged in the most licentious freedom of speech and writing; the historical and philosophic remains of Eunapius, Zosimus, and the fanatic teachers of the school of Plato, betray the most furious animosity, and contain the sharpest invectives, against the sentiments and conduct of their victorious adversaries. If these audacious libels were publicly known, we must applaud the good sense of the Christian princes, who viewed, with a smile of contempt, the last struggles of superstition and despair.3521 But the Imperial laws, which prohibited the sacrifices and ceremonies of Paganism, were rigidly executed; and every hour contributed to destroy the influence of a religion, which was supported by custom, rather than by argument. The devotion or the poet, or the philosopher, may be secretly nourished by prayer, meditation, and study; but the exercise of public worship appears to be the only solid foundation of the religious sentiments of the people, which derive their force from imitation and habit. The interruption of that public exercise may consummate, in the period of a few years, the important work of a national revolution. The memory of theological opinions cannot long be preserved, without the artificial helps of priests, of temples, and of books. The ignorant vulgar, whose minds are still agitated by the blind hopes and terrors of superstition, will be soon persuaded by their superiors to direct their vows to the reigning deities of the age; and will insensibly imbibe an ardent zeal for the support and propagation of the new doctrine, which spiritual hunger at first compelled them to accept. The generation that arose in the world after the promulgation of the Imperial laws, was attracted within the pale of the Catholic church: and so rapid, yet so gentle, was the fall of Paganism, that only twenty-eight years after the death of Theodosius, the faint and minute vestiges were no longer visible to the eye of the legislator. (The History of the decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol. 3, Chap. 28, pgs. 155 - 160 of the Everyman's Library edition)

The mandates of a united church and state (Catholicism), bringing countless new members into the church, with unconverted hearts and minds.
 
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The ruin of the Pagan religion is described by the sophists as a dreadful and amazing prodigy, which covered the earth with darkness, and restored the ancient dominion of chaos and of night. They relate, in solemn and pathetic strains, that the temples were converted into sepulchres, and that the holy places, which had been adorned by the statues of the gods, were basely polluted by the relics of Christian martyrs. “The monks” (a race of filthy animals, to whom Eunapius is tempted to refuse the name of men) “are the authors of the new worship, which, in the place of those deities who are conceived by the understanding, has substituted the meanest and most contemptible slaves. The heads, salted and pickled, of those infamous malefactors, who for the multitude of their crimes have suffered a just and ignominious death; their bodies still marked by the impression of the lash, and the scars of those tortures which were inflicted by the sentence of the magistrate; such” (continues Eunapius) “are the gods which the earth produces in our days; such are the martyrs, the supreme arbitrators of our prayers and petitions to the Deity, whose tombs are now consecrated as the objects of the veneration of the people.” Without approving the malice, it is natural enough to share the surprise of the sophist, the spectator of a revolution, which raised those obscure victims of the laws of Rome to the rank of celestial and invisible protectors of the Roman empire. The grateful respect of the Christians for the martyrs of the faith, was exalted, by time and victory, into religious adoration; and the most illustrious of the saints and prophets were deservedly associated to the honors of the martyrs. One hundred and fifty years after the glorious deaths of St. Peter and St. Paul, the Vatican and the Ostian road were distinguished by the tombs, or rather by the trophies, of those spiritual heroes. In the age which followed the conversion of Constantine, the emperors, the consuls, and the generals of armies, devoutly visited the sepulchres of a tentmaker and a fisherman; and their venerable bones were deposited under the altars of Christ, on which the bishops of the royal city continually offered the unbloody sacrifice. The new capital of the Eastern world, unable to produce any ancient and domestic trophies, was enriched by the spoils of dependent provinces. The bodies of St. Andrew, St. Luke, and St. Timothy, had reposed near three hundred years in the obscure graves, from whence they were transported, in solemn pomp, to the church of the apostles, which the magnificence of Constantine had founded on the banks of the Thracian Bosphorus. About fifty years afterwards, the same banks were honored by the presence of Samuel, the judge and prophet of the people of Israel. His ashes, deposited in a golden vase, and covered with a silken veil, were delivered by the bishops into each other’s hands. The relics of Samuel were received by the people with the same joy and reverence which they would have shown to the living prophet; the highways, from Palestine to the gates of Constantinople, were filled with an uninterrupted procession; and the emperor Arcadius himself, at the head of the most illustrious members of the clergy and senate, advanced to meet his extraordinary guest, who had always deserved and claimed the homage of kings. The example of Rome and Constantinople confirmed the faith and discipline of the Catholic world. The honors of the saints and martyrs, after a feeble and ineffectual murmur of profane reason, were universally established; and in the age of Ambrose and Jerom, something was still deemed wanting to the sanctity of a Christian church, till it had been consecrated by some portion of holy relics, which fixed and inflamed the devotion of the faithful. In the long period of twelve hundred years, which elapsed between the reign of Constantine and the reformation of Luther, the worship of saints and relics corrupted the pure and perfect simplicity of the Christian model: and some symptoms of degeneracy may be observed even in the first generations which adopted and cherished this pernicious innovation.


I.
The satisfactory experience, that the relics of saints were more valuable than gold or precious stones, stimulated the clergy to multiply the treasures of the church. Without much regard for truth or probability, they invented names for skeletons, and actions for names. The fame of the apostles, and of the holy men who had imitated their virtues, was darkened by religious fiction. To the invincible band of genuine and primitive martyrs, they added myriads of imaginary heroes, who had never existed, except in the fancy of crafty or credulous legendaries; and there is reason to suspect, that Tours might not be the only diocese in which the bones of a malefactor were adored, instead of those of a saint. A superstitious practice, which tended to increase the temptations of fraud, and credulity, insensibly extinguished the light of history, and of reason, in the Christian world.

II.
But the progress of superstition would have been much less rapid and victorious, if the faith of the people had not been assisted by the seasonable aid of visions and miracles, to ascertain the authenticity and virtue of the most suspicious relics. In the reign of the younger Theodosius, Lucian, a presbyter of Jerusalem, and the ecclesiastical minister of the village of Caphargamala, about twenty miles from the city, related a very singular dream, which, to remove his doubts, had been repeated on three successive Saturdays. A venerable figure stood before him, in the silence of the night, with a long beard, a white robe, and a gold rod; announced himself by the name of Gamaliel, and revealed to the astonished presbyter, that his own corpse, with the bodies of his son Abibas, his friend Nicodemus, and the illustrious Stephen, the first martyr of the Christian faith, were secretly buried in the adjacent field. He added, with some impatience, that it was time to release himself and his companions from their obscure prison; that their appearance would be salutary to a distressed world; and that they had made choice of Lucian to inform the bishop of Jerusalem of their situation and their wishes. The doubts and difficulties which still retarded this important discovery were successively removed by new visions; and the ground was opened by the bishop, in the presence of an innumerable multitude. The coffins of Gamaliel, of his son, and of his friend, were found in regular order; but when the fourth coffin, which contained the remains of Stephen, was shown to the light, the earth trembled, and an odor, such as that of paradise, was smelt, which instantly cured the various diseases of seventy-three of the assistants. The companions of Stephen were left in their peaceful residence of Caphargamala: but the relics of the first martyr were transported, in solemn procession, to a church constructed in their honor on Mount Sion; and the minute particles of those relics, a drop of blood, or the scrapings of a bone, were acknowledged, in almost every province of the Roman world, to possess a divine and miraculous virtue. The grave and learned Augustin, whose understanding scarcely admits the excuse of credulity, has attested the innumerable prodigies which were performed in Africa by the relics of St. Stephen; and this marvellous narrative is inserted in the elaborate work of the City of God, which the bishop of Hippo designed as a solid and immortal proof of the truth of Christianity. Augustin solemnly declares, that he has selected those miracles only which were publicly certified by the persons who were either the objects, or the spectators, of the power of the martyr. Many prodigies were omitted, or forgotten; and Hippo had been less favorably treated than the other cities of the province. And yet the bishop enumerates above seventy miracles, of which three were resurrections from the dead, in the space of two years, and within the limits of his own diocese. If we enlarge our view to all the dioceses, and all the saints, of the Christian world, it will not be easy to calculate the fables, and the errors, which issued from this inexhaustible source. But we may surely be allowed to observe, that a miracle, in that age of superstition and credulity, lost its name and its merit, since it could scarcely be considered as a deviation from the ordinary and established laws of nature.


III.
The innumerable miracles, of which the tombs of the martyrs were the perpetual theatre, revealed to the pious believer the actual state and constitution of the invisible world; and his religious speculations appeared to be founded on the firm basis of fact and experience. Whatever might be the condition of vulgar souls, in the long interval between the dissolution and the resurrection of their bodies, it was evident that the superior spirits of the saints and martyrs did not consume that portion of their existence in silent and inglorious sleep. It was evident (without presuming to determine the place of their habitation, or the nature of their felicity) that they enjoyed the lively and active consciousness of their happiness, their virtue, and their powers; and that they had already secured the possession of their eternal reward. The enlargement of their intellectual faculties surpassed the measure of the human imagination; since it was proved by experience, that they were capable of hearing and understanding the various petitions of their numerous votaries; who, in the same moment of time, but in the most distant parts of the world, invoked the name and assistance of Stephen or of Martin. The confidence of their petitioners was founded on the persuasion, that the saints, who reigned with Christ, cast an eye of pity upon earth; that they were warmly interested in the prosperity of the Catholic Church; and that the individuals, who imitated the example of their faith and piety, were the peculiar and favorite objects of their most tender regard. Sometimes, indeed, their friendship might be influenced by considerations of a less exalted kind: they viewed with partial affection the places which had been consecrated by their birth, their residence, their death, their burial, or the possession of their relics. The meaner passions of pride, avarice, and revenge, may be deemed unworthy of a celestial breast; yet the saints themselves condescended to testify their grateful approbation of the liberality of their votaries; and the sharpest bolts of punishment were hurled against those impious wretches, who violated their magnificent shrines, or disbelieved their supernatural power. Atrocious, indeed, must have been the guilt, and strange would have been the scepticism, of those men, if they had obstinately resisted the proofs of a divine agency, which the elements, the whole range of the animal creation, and even the subtle and invisible operations of the human mind, were compelled to obey. The immediate, and almost instantaneous, effects that were supposed to follow the prayer, or the offence, satisfied the Christians of the ample measure of favor and authority which the saints enjoyed in the presence of the Supreme God; and it seemed almost superfluous to inquire whether they were continually obliged to intercede before the throne of grace; or whether they might not be permitted to exercise, according to the dictates of their benevolence and justice, the delegated powers of their subordinate ministry. The imagination, which had been raised by a painful effort to the contemplation and worship of the Universal Cause, eagerly embraced such inferior objects of adoration as were more proportioned to its gross conceptions and imperfect faculties. The sublime and simple theology of the primitive Christians was gradually corrupted; and the Monarchy of heaven, already clouded by metaphysical subtleties, was degraded by the introduction of a popular mythology, which tended to restore the reign of polytheism.


IV.
As the objects of religion were gradually reduced to the standard of the imagination, the rites and ceremonies were introduced that seemed most powerfully to affect the senses of the vulgar. If, in the beginning of the fifth century, Tertullian, or Lactantius, had been suddenly raised from the dead, to assist at the festival of some popular saint, or martyr, they would have gazed with astonishment, and indignation, on the profane spectacle, which had succeeded to the pure and spiritual worship of a Christian congregation. As soon as the doors of the church were thrown open, they must have been offended by the smoke of incense, the perfume of flowers, and the glare of lamps and tapers, which diffused, at noonday, a gaudy, superfluous, and, in their opinion, a sacrilegious light. If they approached the balustrade of the altar, they made their way through the prostrate crowd, consisting, for the most part, of strangers and pilgrims, who resorted to the city on the vigil of the feast; and who already felt the strong intoxication of fanaticism, and, perhaps, of wine. Their devout kisses were imprinted on the walls and pavement of the sacred edifice; and their fervent prayers were directed, whatever might be the language of their church, to the bones, the blood, or the ashes of the saint, which were usually concealed, by a linen or silken veil, from the eyes of the vulgar. The Christians frequented the tombs of the martyrs, in the hope of obtaining, from their powerful intercession, every sort of spiritual, but more especially of temporal, blessings. They implored the preservation of their health, or the cure of their infirmities; the fruitfulness of their barren wives, or the safety and happiness of their children. Whenever they undertook any distant or dangerous journey, they requested, that the holy martyrs would be their guides and protectors on the road; and if they returned without having experienced any misfortune, they again hastened to the tombs of the martyrs, to celebrate, with grateful thanksgivings, their obligations to the memory and relics of those heavenly patrons. The walls were hung round with symbols of the favors which they had received; eyes, and hands, and feet, of gold and silver: and edifying pictures, which could not long escape the abuse of indiscreet or idolatrous devotion, represented the image, the attributes, and the miracles of the tutelar saint. The same uniform original spirit of superstition might suggest, in the most distant ages and countries, the same methods of deceiving the credulity, and of affecting the senses of mankind: but it must ingenuously be confessed, that the ministers of the Catholic church imitated the profane model, which they were impatient to destroy. The most respectable bishops had persuaded themselves that the ignorant rustics would more cheerfully renounce the superstitions of Paganism, if they found some resemblance, some compensation, in the bosom of Christianity. The religion of Constantine achieved, in less than a century, the final conquest of the Roman empire: but the victors themselves were insensibly subdued by the arts of their vanquished rivals.(The History of the decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol. 3, Chap. 28, pgs. 160 - 169 of the Everyman's Library edition)

The sins and rebellions of ancient Israel repeated by the new covenant Israel of God, the “Christian” church. Just as Israel continually fell into apostasy not long after her victories over her enemies, requiring reforms and reestablishment of truth again and again, so “Christianity” fell pray to the same. Christianity having basically conquered the paganism of the Roman Empire, fell right back into apostasy and paganism shortly thereafter. Nothing it seems is more dangerous and or detrimental to God’s people on this earth, than victory over their “enemies”, leading to a false sense of security. Usually followed by open apostasy. A factually demonstrated truth that Christians today should remain keenly aware of.
 
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Amo2

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Obviously the originator of the "purple" story either had no idea that the Catholic Church uses a number of seasonal colors or it was a deliberate and hateful attempt to falsely malign the Catholic Church. That such tales get passed down is sad, particularly by those who identify themselves as "historians." This is just the kind of thing that prevents good honest Christian dialogue. The Devil never sleeps.
The main identification of the Roman Catholic Church with the color of purple throughout history of course, is directly tied to the following scriptures - (emphasis is mine)

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Apart from this as well, many see the history of the papacy as a continuation of the Roman empire in another form, which again would lend credence to the idea of purple employed by the papacy for such reasons. As the following historian makes this observation - (emphasis is mine)

When Christianity conquered Rome the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the pontifex maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of supersensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror. The reins and skill of government were handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; the lost power of the broken sword was rewon by the magic of the consoling word; the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries of the Church moving in all directions along the Roman roads; and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome. Through the long struggles of the Age of Faith the authority of the ancient capital persisted and grew, until in the Renaissance the classic culture seemed to rise from the grave, and the immortal city became once more the center of summit of the world's life and wealth and art. When, in 1936, Rome celebrated the 2689th anniversary of her foundation, she could look back upon the most impressive continuity of government and civilization in the history of mankind. May she rise again.(CAESAR AND CHRIST, A history of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from their beginnings to A.D.325. By Will Durant-1944)
 
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The pastoral labors of the archbishop of Constantinople provoked, and gradually united against him, two sorts of enemies; the aspiring clergy, who envied his success, and the obstinate sinners, who were offended by his reproofs. When Chrysostom thundered, from the pulpit of St. Sophia, against the degeneracy of the Christians, his shafts were spent among the crowd, without wounding, or even marking, the character of any individual. When he declaimed against the peculiar vices of the rich, poverty might obtain a transient consolation from his invectives; but the guilty were still sheltered by their numbers; and the reproach itself was dignified by some ideas of superiority and enjoyment. But as the pyramid rose towards the summit, it insensibly diminished to a point; and the magistrates, the ministers, the favorite eunuchs, the ladies of the court, the empress Eudoxia herself, had a much larger share of guilt to divide among a smaller proportion of criminals. The personal applications of the audience were anticipated, or confirmed, by the testimony of their own conscience; and the intrepid preacher assumed the dangerous right of exposing both the offence and the offender to the public abhorrence. The secret resentment of the court encouraged the discontent of the clergy and monks of Constantinople, who were too hastily reformed by the fervent zeal of their archbishop. He had condemned, from the pulpit, the domestic females of the clergy of Constantinople, who, under the name of servants, or sisters, afforded a perpetual occasion either of sin or of scandal. The silent and solitary ascetics, who had secluded themselves from the world, were entitled to the warmest approbation of Chrysostom; but he despised and stigmatized, as the disgrace of their holy profession, the crowd of degenerate monks, who, from some unworthy motives of pleasure or profit, so frequently infested the streets of the capital. To the voice of persuasion, the archbishop was obliged to add the terrors of authority; and his ardor, in the exercise of ecclesiastical jurisdiction, was not always exempt from passion; nor was it always guided by prudence. Chrysostom was naturally of a choleric disposition. Although he struggled, according to the precepts of the gospel, to love his private enemies, he indulged himself in the privilege of hating the enemies of God and of the church; and his sentiments were sometimes delivered with too much energy of countenance and expression. He still maintained, from some considerations of health or abstinence, his former habits of taking his repasts alone; and this inhospitable custom, which his enemies imputed to pride, contributed, at least, to nourish the infirmity of a morose and unsocial humor. Separated from that familiar intercourse, which facilitates the knowledge and the despatch of business, he reposed an unsuspecting confidence in his deacon Serapion; and seldom applied his speculative knowledge of human nature to the particular character, either of his dependants, or of his equals.

Conscious of the purity of his intentions, and perhaps of the superiority of his genius, the archbishop of Constantinople extended the jurisdiction of the Imperial city, that he might enlarge the sphere of his pastoral labors; and the conduct which the profane imputed to an ambitious motive, appeared to Chrysostom himself in the light of a sacred and indispensable duty. In his visitation through the Asiatic provinces, he deposed thirteen bishops of Lydia and Phrygia; and indiscreetly declared that a deep corruption of simony and licentiousness had infected the whole episcopal order. If those bishops were innocent, such a rash and unjust condemnation must excite a well-grounded discontent. If they were guilty, the numerous associates of their guilt would soon discover that their own safety depended on the ruin of the archbishop; whom they studied to represent as the tyrant of the Eastern church.

This ecclesiastical conspiracy was managed by Theophilus, archbishop of Alexandria, an active and ambitious prelate, who displayed the fruits of rapine in monuments of ostentation. His national dislike to the rising greatness of a city which degraded him from the second to the third rank in the Christian world, was exasperated by some personal dispute with Chrysostom himself.
By the private invitation of the empress, Theophilus landed at Constantinople with a stout body of Egyptian mariners, to encounter the populace; and a train of dependent bishops, to secure, by their voices, the majority of a synod. The synod was convened in the suburb of Chalcedon, surnamed the Oak, where Rufinus had erected a stately church and monastery; and their proceedings were continued during fourteen days, or sessions. A bishop and a deacon accused the archbishop of Constantinople; but the frivolous or improbable nature of the forty-seven articles which they presented against him, may justly be considered as a fair and unexceptional panegyric. Four successive summons were signified to Chrysostom; but he still refused to trust either his person or his reputation in the hands of his implacable enemies, who, prudently declining the examination of any particular charges, condemned his contumacious disobedience, and hastily pronounced a sentence of deposition. The synod of the Oak immediately addressed the emperor to ratify and execute their judgment, and charitably insinuated, that the penalties of treason might be inflicted on the audacious preacher, who had reviled, under the name of Jezebel, the empress Eudoxia herself. The archbishop was rudely arrested, and conducted through the city, by one of the Imperial messengers, who landed him, after a short navigation, near the entrance of the Euxine; from whence, before the expiration of two days, he was gloriously recalled.

The first astonishment of his faithful people had been mute and passive: they suddenly rose with unanimous and irresistible fury. Theophilus escaped, but the promiscuous crowd of monks and Egyptian mariners was slaughtered without pity in the streets of Constantinople. A seasonable earthquake justified the interposition of Heaven; the torrent of sedition rolled forwards to the gates of the palace; and the empress, agitated by fear or remorse, threw herself at the feet of Arcadius, and confessed that the public safety could be purchased only by the restoration of Chrysostom. The Bosphorus was covered with innumerable vessels; the shores of Europe and Asia were profusely illuminated; and the acclamations of a victorious people accompanied, from the port to the cathedral, the triumph of the archbishop; who, too easily, consented to resume the exercise of his functions, before his sentence had been legally reversed by the authority of an ecclesiastical synod. Ignorant, or careless, of the impending danger, Chrysostom indulged his zeal, or perhaps his resentment; declaimed with peculiar asperity against female vices; and condemned the profane honors which were addressed, almost in the precincts of St. Sophia, to the statue of the empress. His imprudence tempted his enemies to inflame the haughty spirit of Eudoxia, by reporting, or perhaps inventing, the famous exordium of a sermon, “Herodias is again furious; Herodias again dances; she once more requires the head of John;” an insolent allusion, which, as a woman and a sovereign, it was impossible for her to forgive. The short interval of a perfidious truce was employed to concert more effectual measures for the disgrace and ruin of the archbishop. A numerous council of the Eastern prelates, who were guided from a distance by the advice of Theophilus, confirmed the validity, without examining the justice, of the former sentence; and a detachment of Barbarian troops was introduced into the city, to suppress the emotions of the people. On the vigil of Easter, the solemn administration of baptism was rudely interrupted by the soldiers, who alarmed the modesty of the naked catechumens, and violated, by their presence, the awful mysteries of the Christian worship. Arsacius occupied the church of St. Sophia, and the archiepiscopal throne. The Catholics retreated to the baths of Constantine, and afterwards to the fields; where they were still pursued and insulted by the guards, the bishops, and the magistrates. The fatal day of the second and final exile of Chrysostom was marked by the conflagration of the cathedral, of the senate-house, and of the adjacent buildings; and this calamity was imputed, without proof, but not without probability, to the despair of a persecuted faction.

Cicero might claim some merit, if his voluntary banishment preserved the peace of the republic; but the submission of Chrysostom was the indispensable duty of a Christian and a subject. Instead of listening to his humble prayer, that he might be permitted to reside at Cyzicus, or Nicomedia, the inflexible empress assigned for his exile the remote and desolate town of Cucusus, among the ridges of Mount Taurus, in the Lesser Armenia. A secret hope was entertained, that the archbishop might perish in a difficult and dangerous march of seventy days, in the heat of summer, through the provinces of Asia Minor, where he was continually threatened by the hostile attacks of the Isaurians, and the more implacable fury of the monks. Yet Chrysostom arrived in safety at the place of his confinement; and the three years which he spent at Cucusus, and the neighboring town of Arabissus, were the last and most glorious of his life. His character was consecrated by absence and persecution; the faults of his administration were no longer remembered; but every tongue repeated the praises of his genius and virtue: and the respectful attention of the Christian world was fixed on a desert spot among the mountains of Taurus. From that solitude the archbishop, whose active mind was invigorated by misfortunes, maintained a strict and frequent correspondence with the most distant provinces; exhorted the separate congregation of his faithful adherents to persevere in their allegiance; urged the destruction of the temples of Phœnicia, and the extirpation of heresy in the Isle of Cyprus; extended his pastoral care to the missions of Persia and Scythia; negotiated, by his ambassadors, with the Roman pontiff and the emperor Honorius; and boldly appealed, from a partial synod, to the supreme tribunal of a free and general council. The mind of the illustrious exile was still independent; but his captive body was exposed to the revenge of the oppressors, who continued to abuse the name and authority of Arcadius. An order was despatched for the instant removal of Chrysostom to the extreme desert of Pityus: and his guards so faithfully obeyed their cruel instructions, that, before he reached the sea-coast of the Euxine, he expired at Comana, in Pontus, in the sixtieth year of his age. The succeeding generation acknowledged his innocence and merit. The archbishops of the East, who might blush that their predecessors had been the enemies of Chrysostom, were gradually disposed, by the firmness of the Roman pontiff, to restore the honors of that venerable name. At the pious solicitation of the clergy and people of Constantinople, his relics, thirty years after his death, were transported from their obscure sepulchre to the royal city. The emperor Theodosius advanced to receive them as far as Chalcedon; and, falling prostrate on the coffin, implored, in the name of his guilty parents, Arcadius and Eudoxia, the forgiveness of the injured saint. (The History of the decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol. 3, Chap. 32, pgs. 348 - 354 of the Everyman's Library edition)

The inevitable conflict and power struggles between clergy and royalty and or politicians associated with a “united” church and state. Resulting in literal bloody, violent, murderous conflict and or war. By supposed or professed Christians. In this particular case, caused by the rightful exposure and address of corruption among the royalty. Who did not appreciate such exposure and fought against these attacks upon their reputations, regardless of truth or not, in order to protect their authority. At other times throughout history, the church itself was confronted by royalty concerning their own corruptions, calling for repentance and reformation. Which also often lead to bloody, violent, murderous conflict or war. For the very same reasons.

Nevertheless, over the course of time, the church and state learned the importance of avoiding such conflicts between themselves. Thus avoiding the detrimental effects of the loss of power and or influence of the defeated party. They learned to wash each others hands of their growing corruptions, and join forces against their supposed citizens or adherents who would ever dare to accuse them of any such things. Truth being told or not. Unto ever greater corruption and abusive power over all under their self appointed and maintained usurped authority. Creating the persecuting beasts depicted in biblical prophecy.

A history the present world is rapidly rushing backward towards reestablishing. Through deliberately promulgated and facilitated ignorance and or revisionist accounts of said history. Not to mention the other continuous efforts of those elitist clergy and royalty minded always inclined toward the same, who have and continue to be with and among us. Ever seeking to reestablish the religious and political stranglehold they once had upon or over countless millions, upon a now more global scale. This is concerning the very last beast of biblical prophecy forming right now before our very eyes. Facilitated by either of the political parties we vote into place, via the direction of those manipulating each party in accordance with Hegelian dialectics. So be it as God’s word has predicted and determined.
 
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The main identification of the Roman Catholic Church with the color of purple throughout history of course, is directly tied to the following scriptures - (emphasis is mine)
As I said, the Catholic Church uses many colors. The Catholic Church uses the color purple during the season of Lent and Advent because of the penitential nature of these seasons. This is to associate with the sacrifice of Jesus, we also use ashes at the beginning of Lent. Because Catholics use so many colors, to go to the extreme length of associating any one color with the Church in order to paint the Church in a negative light is the work of Satan. Satan wants to pit Christians against each other and foster as much hatred as possible.

John 19: 1-3 Then Pilate took Jesus and scourged him. And the soldiers plaited a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and arrayed him in a purple robe; they came up to him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!” and struck him with their hands.
 
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The mandates of a united church and state (Catholicism), bringing countless new members into the church, with unconverted hearts and minds.
As I've said before, a basic knowledge of history shows that rulers often impose their particular religion on the their subjects. This has happened with Catholics and Protestants. To assume that devout Christians who try and follow Jesus suddenly become less Christian because of the choice of a king or ruler to me is an attempt to usurp the judgment that should be left to Jesus alone.
 
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Deny all the recorded history it pleases you to deny,
Speculation about the holiness of monks is not "recorded history." Jesus is the judge of men, not the author.
 
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I think it's important to keep in mind that Edward Gibbons' work is largely considered unreliable. I'm not suggesting it's worthless, but I would encourage keeping some large piles of salt around.

-CryptoLutheran

Better yet, read it only while touring the lovely salt mine in Salzburg, which is a delight to visit, with its slides, and the beautiful mysterious salt cavern through which a pair of cable-hauled boats glide silently across the still waters - actually seeing the empty boat returning to collect the next group of passengers was one of the eeriest things i’ve seen in my life; I knew the boats were connected via a cable, much like the funicular one uses later to exit the mine, but just something about seeing a boat with no one on it sailing past you effortlessly, since you cannot see the cables that are pulling the boats - it was pretty intense. But one could rest assured one would have enough salt, and the salt mined in Salzburg is delicious.
 
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I am not denying the sins of anyone. Fortunately Jesus was always there with his Church, bringing forth saints when they were needed. I don't think we as mere humans should be judging any generation as a whole.

Christ even says as much - “Judge not lest ye not be judged.” The idea of judging entire generations of Christians deeply upsets me. Also the generations being judged included some of the worst persecutions in the history of Christianity, for example, the vindictive persecution of the surviving members of the 318 Holy Fathers of Nicaea, such as St. Athanasius, after the rise to power of the Arians during the reign of Emperor Constantius.
 
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Valletta

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Better yet, read it only while touring the lovely salt mine in Salzburg, which is a delight to visit, with its slides, and the beautiful mysterious salt cavern through which a pair of cable-hauled boats glide silently across the still waters - actually seeing the empty boat returning to collect the next group of passengers was one of the eeriest things i’ve seen in my life; I knew the boats were connected via a cable, much like the funicular one uses later to exit the mine, but just something about seeing a boat with no one on it sailing past you effortlessly, since you cannot see the cables that are pulling the boats - it was pretty intense. But one could rest assured one would have enough salt, and the salt mined in Salzburg is delicious.
If I get to that city again I will have to see that mine. Not well known out of Kansas is the fabulous salt mine Strataca just outside of Hutchinson, and also don't miss the Cosmosphere in Hutchinson while you are there. Tripadvisor has been good to me.
 
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Amo2

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Obviously the originator of the "purple" story either had no idea that the Catholic Church uses a number of seasonal colors or it was a deliberate and hateful attempt to falsely malign the Catholic Church. That such tales get passed down is sad, particularly by those who identify themselves as "historians." This is just the kind of thing that prevents good honest Christian dialogue. The Devil never sleeps.
It was more an identification of the entity described in Revelation 17 by interpreters, than historical accounts by historians. Peoples being persecuted by the Catholic Church in league with Catholic political leaders, noticed the colors and golden cup employed by the church, its direct connection to the Roman Empire, and simply put 2 and 2 together. They were Christians (saints), they were being persecuted and killed by Roman Catholic religious and political leaders in league with each other, and the Catholic church employed the colors and cup described as an identifying mark in Revelation 17. It is hard to dialogue, with people who outlaw what you say and believe with penalties up to torture and death. Many of course today, look back at said history, and see these same identifying marks played out in actual history.
 
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Amo2

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As I've said before, a basic knowledge of history shows that rulers often impose their particular religion on the their subjects. This has happened with Catholics and Protestants. To assume that devout Christians who try and follow Jesus suddenly become less Christian because of the choice of a king or ruler to me is an attempt to usurp the judgment that should be left to Jesus alone.
Yes, this is true. This is not the fault of those being ruled over. Yet those being ruled over can either choose to support such for survival, or reject it as non Christian and therefore being practiced or enforced by professed Christian entities, as antichrist. Which many did and do. The history of Roman Catholicism is the history of contending Christian professing entities, seeking the support of the state, or at that time Imperial support. Which once obtained, turned into Imperially enforced "Christianity". Which struggle produced, that which we know as the Roman Catholic church today, won. While the leadership of this denomination is still in constant relations with the kings, governments, religions, merchants, craftsmen, and other oligarchs of the world.

She is the original or mother church, of all Christins entities or denominations who have followed this example throughout history. That is in uniting with the state unto worldly enforcement upon all citizens of such nations that have done so. Many Protestants followed this example after gaining their own freedom. Both of which I oppose. As well as any religion uniting with any state unto state or nationally enforced religion. Including the religion of Secular Humanism, which while denying a God and religion, is in fact a religion itself. An unproven belief that there is no God. The enforcement of which is every bit as evil as that of any other, including even greater moral depravity as such has no basis or final authority concerning what is moral and or acceptable or not.

While Gibbons history does not address other religions as much as Christianity, nor extend to the time of Protestantism, the principles and dangers of a united church and state exposed by his works are easily carried over into these areas. I will not consider it off topic on this thread if any should like to point out these same kind of abuses throughout history, committed by other religions and or Protestantism. As I condemn all such violations as non and or apostate Christianity. When applied to those who profess Christianity in any case, of course. As my main objective here and in other threads is to address this specific problem and danger to societies. Without the aid of governments, it is a difficult thing to effect widespread persecution, and conversely an easy thing to effect by government enforced laws of a land.
 
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