The Baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2

[Always in His Presence]

Well known

Acts 2: When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Notice the emphasis on they were all - Look just a could verses back (remembering the Scripture was not written in chapter and verse.

Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers. 15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said,

Notice - the eleven were address, but there were others in the room that made up the 'them all' - Mary, the mother of Jesus, with His brothers and 120 people in total.

Did you catch it?

How many were filled with the Holy Spirit? Them all!

Thoughts

 

[Richard T]

Thanks for your post. I will give a few thoughts related to Acts 2.

It is great that all were filled. It is exactly as Jesus said starting in
John 7:37-39 (KJV)
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

To me what is interesting is to compare this with what Jesus said to the woman at the well.
John 4:13-14 (KJV)
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

The John 4 experience is about salvation, the John 7 experience is about receiving the Holy Spirit. One is a well of water, (internal) the other is rivers of living water (external). many teach now that the experiences occur all at once. Others suggest that the filling of the Holy Spirit often may come subsequently after one is born again. They point to this scripture where Paul refers to these people as disciples.
Acts 19:2-3 (KJV)
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Other theological disagreements exist over whether tongues is evidence of the filling of the Holy Spirit. In Acts this was common, though some did prophesy when they were filled. In one instance Simon saw the gift being bestowed but it does not say what the gift was. A couple of instances where the Holy Spirit was given in Acts, the bible is silent about what occurred.
So, some churches believe tongues is given to all, as evidence of the Holy Spirit. Others believe everyone is filled when they are born again.

I find this also interesting about the 120 who were filled with the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that those Christians all spoke in foreign languages. That sounds simple but there are some possible differences that Acts is not crystal clear on. We do know there were 15 or so of these languages listed in Acts 2:8-11. It seems impossible to know though if they all were known foreign languages. So what were the possibilities?
1. With 120 filled, there could have been more languages that were not understood.
Acts 2:5 (YLT) 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation of those under the heaven,
2. It is possible that every language was understood and there were more languages than were listed.
3. There could have been more than one person speaking the same foreign language.
3. It is possible that some were speaking languages that were not of this world.

I personally lean to the latter because some thought that those filled with the spirit were drunk. It could have been they really were acting drunk as occurs in some Pentecostal churches at times or perhaps it was because they were speaking in languages that no one understood at all. Remember too that it would be hard to match up the 120 tongue talkers to those that came from other nations and had the ability to listen. I mean that would require the pairing of 120 people speaking in foreign languages with at least one person who could understand that language. Which would take some amount of time just to get to the pairings. Some might lean toward not all speaking a known foreign language because so many who speak in tongues today speak syllables and other words and structure that do not sound like a full language. Of the small percent who have spoke in a known language in tongues, they also generally speak in tongues in an unknown or unrecognizable language at other times.
One explanation for this is that speaking in a known language via a tongue is part of the gift "various kinds of tongues" in I Cor 12. Meanwhile, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, with evidence of tongues is sometimes thought of not part of that gift but the ability of every believer. This becomes important because when Paul says in I Cor 12, "all do not speak in tongues," in context he is referring to the gift various kinds of tongues and likely not the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Acts and the rest of the bible is clear; everyone can have the power of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:17 (KJV)
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

It seems highly unlikely that the prophesy was just fulfilled by the 120. It is a prophesy that we all can accept. The Holy Spirit was poured out in other examples in Acts and continues to be poured out today. Most Pentecostal/Charismatics do believe that all believers can speak in tongues. It includes millions of Charismatic Catholics that also speak in tongues.

I encourage all to investigate this on their own. There are lots of unanswered questions. Like among Catholics, why is it that most who speak in tongues are from South America? What is it about them and other Pentecostal tongue talkers that make them have the ability to receive?

Why is it too that some receive tongues years after they are born again?

I would note too that some think tongues have ceased, that some tongues might be of the devil, or that tongues are of little or no use. But is certainly certain that the entire 120 did speak in tongues in Acts 2, that at least many if not all spoke on a known foreign language, and that subsequently the Holy Spirit was given to others that spoke in tongues or prophesied or ______? because the bible is not always specific about what occurred.

 

[timothyu]

How many were filled with the Holy Spirit? Them all!

Thoughts

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I'm not sure what your point is.

The point would be that it was 120, not just the eleven that were Baptized in the Holy Spirit. Some teach that it was only the eleven experienced this infilling.

 

[timothyu]

The point would be that it was 120, not just the eleven that were Baptized in the Holy Spirit. Some teach that it was only the eleven experienced this infilling.

Oh ok, yes. They obviously can't read what is in front of them. But then again mankind does have trouble following God's will over their own

 

[BobRyan]

The point would be that it was 120, not just the eleven that were Baptized in the Holy Spirit. Some teach that it was only the eleven experienced this infilling.

Is someone claiming that the Acts 1 event is just the 11??

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well known



Notice the emphasis on they were all - Look just a could verses back (remembering the Scripture was not written in chapter and verse.


Notice - the eleven were address, but there were others in the room that made up the 'them all' - Mary, the mother of Jesus, with His brothers and 120 people in total.

Did you catch it?

How many were filled with the Holy Spirit? Them all!

Thoughts

Right. As St. Peter says this fulfilled the prophecy of Joel, that the Holy Spirit would be poured out on all flesh. The Holy Spirit was poured out on all who were in the upper room, this was the baptism with the Holy Spirit which John the Baptist foretold, "The One who comes after Me, whose sandals I am unfit to tie, will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire". Jesus echoes this in Acts ch. 1, adding also that His disciples ought to wait in Jerusalem until the promise of the Father would come, and they would be empowered to be His witnesses.

In St. Peter's sermon he calls all the Jewish pilgrims in Jerusalem to "repent and be baptized, all of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"; at which point they submitted themselves to Baptism, they were baptized, becoming Christians, and devoted themselves to the Apostles' teaching, the breaking of bread, prayer, and to having all things in common.

So the Spirit is poured out on all flesh, by God, through Christ, upon His Church--which goes out into the world, to all nations, making disciples "baptizing them in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".

This is why, also, the Apostle St. Paul could point to our common Baptism as Christians as our partaking of the one Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12; our Baptism unites us together as the one Body, having received the one Holy Spirit; though the gifts are diverse, it is the same Holy Spirit who graciously bestows gifts to the members of the Church, whether the gift of languages, or preaching, or miraculous healing--the Apostle mentions many other charisms--gifts--of the Spirit in other places such as service. In this way all who are baptized as Christians, into the one Body, and through faith receive the Holy Spirit (We were sealed with the Spirit when we believed the Gospel, says St. Paul in Ephesians; and Paul writing to Titus says that not by our efforts but by God's mercy renewing us and giving us new birth by the Spirit we are saved) So that by God's grace meeting us through Word and Sacrament He is giving us the fullness of Himself, in Christ, through the Spirit who dwells in us.

This is the baptism with the Holy Spirit, that the Spirit was poured out on Pentecost for all flesh, and all who are members of Christ's body receive the Holy Spirit, and are brought into the life of God in Christ as one Holy Christian Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Well known



Notice the emphasis on they were all - Look just a could verses back (remembering the Scripture was not written in chapter and verse.


Notice - the eleven were address, but there were others in the room that made up the 'them all' - Mary, the mother of Jesus, with His brothers and 120 people in total.

Did you catch it?

How many were filled with the Holy Spirit? Them all!

Thoughts

Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey away; and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. In those days Peter stood up among the brethren (the company of persons was in all about a hundred and twenty), and said, "Brethren, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David, concerning Judas who was guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us, and was allotted his share in this ministry. (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their language Akel'dama, that is, Field of Blood.) For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'Let his habitation become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it'; and 'His office let another take.' So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us--one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection." And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsab'bas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthi'as. And they prayed and said, "Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place." And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi'as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.

When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. And they were amazed and wondered, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Par'thians and Medes and E'lamites and residents of Mesopota'mia, Judea and Cappado'cia, Pontus and Asia, Phryg'ia and Pamphyl'ia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyre'ne, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "What does this mean?" But others mocking said, "They are filled with new wine."
Acts 1:12-2:13 RSV-CE

It's a long passage with many details. You think it is about a second baptism? A baptism in/with the Holy Spirit?

 

[Always in His Presence]

It's a long passage with many details. You think it is about a second baptism? A baptism in/with the Holy Spirit?

yup and it is demonstrated other places that the infilling was after Salvation.

Did repeating it help?

Notice the Writer of Hebrews

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. ...

Baptisms - plural.


****Humble request*** please stay on topic.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

yup and it is demonstrated other places that the infilling was after Salvation.

Two baptisms then?

Did repeating it help?

It was/is paragraphed.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Two baptisms then?

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. ..

I agree with the writer of Hebrews - baptisms - plural

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. ..

I agree with the writer of Hebrews - baptisms - plural

baptisms - [Haydock writes] which he expresses in the plural number, either because all the faithful must be baptised once, if we speak of Christian baptism; or he means that persons ought to know they cannot receive Christ’s baptism over again. Or, in fine, he means that the baptisms of the Jews, which they so frequently repeated, could not make them justified.

 

[Always in His Presence]

baptisms - [Haydock writes] which he expresses in the plural number, either because all the faithful must be baptised once, if we speak of Christian baptism; or he means that persons ought to know they cannot receive Christ’s baptism over again. Or, in fine, he means that the baptisms of the Jews, which they so frequently repeated, could not make them justified.

none of which aligns with the context of the sentence.

βαπτισμός baptismós - the plural of baptism. - more than one.

Again - not making any disparaging remark about George Haydock and his Douay Bible.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

none of which aligns with the context of the sentence.

βαπτισμός baptismós - the plural of baptism. - more than one.

Again - not making any disparaging remark about George Haydock and his Douay Bible.

In Hebrews 6:1, the inspired author exhorts one to leave behind the elementary teachings and press forward to spiritual maturity. This passage presupposes one's prior catechetical formation in foundational doctrines—among them, repentance, faith, and the “doctrine of baptisms.” The plural form, “baptisms,” must be understood in light of both Jewish ritual washings and the singular sacrament of Christian Baptism. According to Catholic dogma, there is only one Baptism for the remission of sins (cf. Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, CCC 1256), and this sacrament cannot be repeated. Thus, the plural “baptisms” refers not to multiple Christian baptisms, but to the contrast between Jewish ceremonial ablutions and the definitive sacrament instituted by Christ.

One is to recognise that the Epistle’s reference to “baptisms” serves a catechetical and polemical purpose. The author distinguishes the efficacious sacrament of Baptism from the ineffectual ritual washings of the Old Covenant, which could not cleanse the conscience (cf. Hebrews 9:9–14). Catholic tradition, as articulated by St. Thomas Aquinas and affirmed in the Council of Trent (Session VII, Canon II on Baptism), teaches that Baptism is a true sacrament instituted by Christ, conferring sanctifying grace and incorporating the soul into the Mystical Body. The mention of “baptisms” in Hebrews 6:2 thus presumes one's understanding of this sacramental economy and urges one not to regress into Judaic practices, but to advance in the life of grace.

Furthermore, one must interpret this passage in continuity with apostolic teaching. As the Haydock Commentary notes, the apostles instructed catechumens in the nature and effects of Baptism, distinguishing it from John’s baptism and Jewish washings. The plural usage may also encompass the sacramental signs associated with initiation—Baptism and Confirmation—both involving ritual application of water or imposition of hands. However, dogmatically, only Baptism is necessary for salvation (CCC 1257), and its singularity is affirmed in Ephesians 4:5: “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Hebrews 6:1–2 thus calls you to deepen your grasp of these mysteries, not by repetition of rudiments, but by persevering in the perfection of Christ.

 

[Dan Perez]

Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey away; and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. In those days Peter stood up among the brethren (the company of persons was in all about a hundred and twenty), and said, "Brethren, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David, concerning Judas who was guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us, and was allotted his share in this ministry. (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their language Akel'dama, that is, Field of Blood.) For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'Let his habitation become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it'; and 'His office let another take.' So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us--one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection." And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsab'bas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthi'as. And they prayed and said, "Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place." And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi'as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.

When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. And they were amazed and wondered, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Par'thians and Medes and E'lamites and residents of Mesopota'mia, Judea and Cappado'cia, Pontus and Asia, Phryg'ia and Pamphyl'ia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyre'ne, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "What does this mean?" But others mocking said, "They are filled with new wine."
Acts 1:12-2:13 RSV-CE

It's a long passage with many details. You think it is about a second baptism? A baptism in/with the Holy Spirit?

And in Acts 2:38 the Greek water // hydro. is not in. the Greek text. !!


And water baptism STOP IAS WRITTEN in Acts 1:5 , PERIOD !!

And no in 1 Cor 10:2 and all were BAPTIZED unto Moses in the Cloud. and in the SEA ,

So how were 200,000 Jews baptized into Moses , in. the CLOUD and in the SEA ??

DAN P

dan p

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. ..

I agree with the writer of Hebrews - baptisms - plural

In Greek this is pretty weird. Technically it's "baptisms of doctrines"; and there's no shortage of commentaries by those who note that the grammatical construction is peculiar, and that the plural for "baptism" is unusual; leading many to conclude that the author has in mind "washings", and in the context of the whole letter the author of Hebrews is trying to articulate the importance of moving beyond the elementary stuff which was found in Judaism (of which ritual washings or "baptisms" were common) and toward deeper things. Or that the author is being inclusive of Jewish ritual washings, John's baptism, and Christian baptism and how these are all included within the larger context of the Christian story.

I grew up Pentecostal, so I'm aware of how this passage is proof-texted to suggest that after regeneration there is a spiritual baptism, identified with the "baptism with the Holy Spirit"--a view I can no longer accept because 1) it simply isn't what the biblical texts themselves are saying and 2) it's an idea entirely foreign to the historic teaching of the Church and does not arise until modern times.

If the author of Hebrews intended to refer to the existence of two baptisms as part of Christian praxis, then this undermines the teaching of St. Paul the Apostle who writes that there is one baptism.
Given all of this, I think we should probably go with historic, scholarly commentary on this subject: The author of Hebrews is probably indicating "washings" in a broader sense, especially in a Jewish context given the nature of the epistle--to the Hebrews.

Biblically speaking "baptism with the Holy Spirit" is only identified with the unique circumstances of Pentecost; with what happened at Cornelius' house functioning as a kind of "little Pentecost" as a sign of the full inclusion of the Gentiles into the evangelistic and apostolic mission. If what happened on Pentecost was a common occurrence, then it would not have been shocking when something like it happened again at Cornelius' household, nor would Peter have to compare it to what happened as it did to them in the beginning. It's clearly a very unique thing that happened, not an ordinary repeatable experience. That's the biblical data and evidence we have, without imposing our own doctrinal views upon the text.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[concretecamper]

The point would be that it was 120, not just the eleven that were Baptized in the Holy Spirit. Some teach that it was only the eleven experienced this infilling.

First, you add the word Baptized

Second, it reminds me of

Third, you bring up a good point about no chapters and verse. Let's take a look at the end of chapter 11 in Revelation and the beginning of chapter 12

And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple. And there were lightnings and voices and an earthquake and great hail. And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

 

[Always in His Presence]

And in Acts 2:38 the Greek water // hydro. is not in. the Greek text. !!

It’s not talking about water baptism

 

[Always in His Presence]

In Hebrews 6:1, the inspired author exhorts one to leave behind the elementary teachings and press forward to spiritual maturity. This passage presupposes one's prior catechetical formation in foundational doctrines—among them, repentance, faith, and the “doctrine of baptisms.” The plural form, “baptisms,” must be understood in light of both Jewish ritual washings and the singular sacrament of Christian Baptism. According to Catholic dogma, there is only one Baptism for the remission of sins (cf. Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, CCC 1256), and this sacrament cannot be repeated. Thus, the plural “baptisms” refers not to multiple Christian baptisms, but to the contrast between Jewish ceremonial ablutions and the definitive sacrament instituted by Christ.

One is to recognise that the Epistle’s reference to “baptisms” serves a catechetical and polemical purpose. The author distinguishes the efficacious sacrament of Baptism from the ineffectual ritual washings of the Old Covenant, which could not cleanse the conscience (cf. Hebrews 9:9–14). Catholic tradition, as articulated by St. Thomas Aquinas and affirmed in the Council of Trent (Session VII, Canon II on Baptism), teaches that Baptism is a true sacrament instituted by Christ, conferring sanctifying grace and incorporating the soul into the Mystical Body. The mention of “baptisms” in Hebrews 6:2 thus presumes one's understanding of this sacramental economy and urges one not to regress into Judaic practices, but to advance in the life of grace.

Furthermore, one must interpret this passage in continuity with apostolic teaching. As the Haydock Commentary notes, the apostles instructed catechumens in the nature and effects of Baptism, distinguishing it from John’s baptism and Jewish washings. The plural usage may also encompass the sacramental signs associated with initiation—Baptism and Confirmation—both involving ritual application of water or imposition of hands. However, dogmatically, only Baptism is necessary for salvation (CCC 1257), and its singularity is affirmed in Ephesians 4:5: “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Hebrews 6:1–2 thus calls you to deepen your grasp of these mysteries, not by repetition of rudiments, but by persevering in the perfection of Christ.

Before we go, too much, further, let me state to follow following;

This is the general theology forum, and because of that there’s a wide variety of theology being present. I recognize those denominations that rely on tradition, and they consider it as part of their doctrinal stance on certain. issues.

I also understand that catechismus, dates all the way back to the Vulgate. In the purest form, it means a teaching.

I come from a doctrinal background that does not recognize tradition as authoritative in The formation of a doctoral stance. That’s where you and I are different. The challenge on this general theology forum is to be able to have a conversation that maintains a status of mutual respect and kindness.

For that reason I cannot, and will not address the matter is that you note out of tradition. Because it’s not part of my doctoral stance. I understand that can cause a conundrum of sorts, but let’s at least admit neither you, nor I have every perfect answer on every perfect stats.

also, for the sake of this thread, I apologize because I forgot that not everybody sees it as baptism so let’s look at it instead as infilling just exactly the way scripture has it.

 

[Dan Perez]

Well known



Notice the emphasis on they were all - Look just a could verses back (remembering the Scripture was not written in chapter and verse.


Notice - the eleven were address, but there were others in the room that made up the 'them all' - Mary, the mother of Jesus, with His brothers and 120 people in total.

Did you catch it?

How many were filled with the Holy Spirit? Them all!

Thoughts

And your OP. says the BAPTISM of the HOLY SPIRIT , and just asking , was that BAPTISM. with Water. OR a BAPTISM

WITHOUT WATER ??

dan p