Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

[Bradskii]

yet 1000s of people are still killed each year in car accidents...

That's not the most risible comment so far in this thread, but to be fair, you have a lot of competition.

Maybe you could expand on that comment and reach whatever crazy conclusion it seems to imply. That regulating vehicle use doesn't stop people being killed in car accidents, so...what? Rules and regulations regarding the use of vehicles are useless? That we may as well get rid of them? But maybe I'm being less than generous and you are actually suggesting that we increase the rules and regs to still further drop the death toll. Is that it?

What is it exactly you are trying to say? Start another post with that comment above and continue it with '...therefore...'.

Therefore what?

 

[Bradskii]

They may be impulsive in some instances, but the broader data from nations that have implemented strict measures suggests that suicide rates were largely unimpacted. I showed the UK data earlier from before and after the handgun ban

The same pattern appeared to show up in Australia as well

That's complete bulldust: The rate of all suicides and homicides in Australia has declined since the gun buyback

'Total suicides, including those involving firearms, increased by a mean 1 per cent per year before 1996, and then decreased by a mean 1.5 per cent per year after the gun laws were introduced.

Homicides and suicides that did not involve firearms were increasing by 2.1 per cent per year before gun reform, but the trend reversed and they began to decline by 1.4 per cent per year thereafter.'

 

[Bradskii]

In the journal, Westman mentions a plan to try to buy a rifle from an acquaintance, and also opines on how it “should be harder for people like me to carry out these attacks.”

The irony is overwhelming. People in this forum think that everything is just hunky dory. But even the guy who shot these kids thinks that something should be done.

 

[Bradskii]

...but no one is crying about regulating knives or cars.

You're kidding me, surely. You cannot be serious.

 

[Hentenza]

You're kidding me, surely. You cannot be serious.

Why wouldn’t I be serious? I’m not from the left where only guns are the evil despite other agencies causing as many or more deaths than guns.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That's complete bulldust: The rate of all suicides and homicides in Australia has declined since the gun buyback

'Total suicides, including those involving firearms, increased by a mean 1 per cent per year before 1996, and then decreased by a mean 1.5 per cent per year after the gun laws were introduced.

Homicides and suicides that did not involve firearms were increasing by 2.1 per cent per year before gun reform, but the trend reversed and they began to decline by 1.4 per cent per year thereafter.'

So you're suggesting that a 1.5% decrease negates my statement of "largely unimpacted"?


And the second part you posted.. the ones that didn't involve any firearms, that'd be irrelevant to the firearm conversation, yes?

Why would a gun restriction have any impact on rates of suicides that didn't involve guns?

Also:
Australia Suicide Rates by Year (1985–2023)

Year	Male Rate	Female Rate
1985	12.6	7.7
1986	11.7	7.2
1987	11.7	7.1
1988	11.6	7.1
1989	11.7	7.2
1990	10.9	6.8
1991	10.6	6.6
1992	10.6	6.7
1993	10.2	6.4
1994	10.4	6.5
1995	9.9	6.3
1996	9.9	6.2
1997	9.5	6.1
1998	9.2	5.8
1999	8.9	5.7
2000	8.6	5.6
2001	8.3	5.4
2002	8.3	5.5
2003	8.1	5.3
2004	7.9	5.2
2005	7.5	5.0
2006	7.4	5.0
2007	7.3	5.0
2008	7.4	5.1
2009	7.0	4.8
2010	6.9	4.7
2011	6.9	4.7
2012	6.6	4.6
2013	6.5	4.5
2014	6.5	4.6
2015	6.5	4.6
2016	6.4	4.5
2017	6.3	4.5
2018	6.0	4.3
2019	6.3	4.4
2020	5.8	4.1
2021	6.0	4.3
2022	6.4	4.6
2023	6.0	4.3

Being that your gun buy back happened in 1996, it would appear that things stayed on the trajectory they were already on.

Are you perhaps giving gun control the credit for things that were actually accomplished by other suicide prevention programs/strategies?

 

[Bradskii]

Why wouldn’t I be serious? I’m not from the left where only guns are the evil despite other agencies causing as many or more deaths than guns.

You can't be serious because everyone knows that there are laws regarding knives. And no rules and regulations and restrictions on cars? What are you on about? Apart from being a ridiculous thing to say, you're using it as the basis for a monstrously stupid argument.

'Hey, umpteen people are killed falling off ladders each year but you don't see anyone trying to ban ladders. So...umm...why should you ban guns'.

 

[Bradskii]

So you're suggesting that a 1.5% decrease negates my statement of "largely unimpacted"?

Yes.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Yes.

So if a country had a massive drunk driving problem with 500,000 incidents per year...(but it was already slowly dropping before any restrictions were passed thanks to some ride-sharing programs and awareness campaigns)

And I implemented heavy handed restrictions and banned any new alcohol purchases on paper, and stopped allowing people to drive after 9pm, and the number went down to 492,500 (a reduction of 1.5% - barely better than the trajectory it was already on sans restrictions), you'd suggest that's a meaningful improvement that justifies the restrictions?

Note the language I used... "largely unimpacted", not "completely unimpacted"

 

[Aldebaran]

Excellent. I can now take my 2L bottle of Cola on a plane. And my pocket knife. Because why should law-abiding citizens be restricted based on what criminals do, or might do?

If you want to live in an America where you're only allowed to own what TSA screeners would allow you to have on a plane, good luck.

 

[Aldebaran]

View attachment 369282

Let us know when your arguments are written to be addressed.

 

[Aldebaran]

Trained security guards yes... Teachers no.

For one thing, it's operating on the assumption that teachers would want to be armed or even know anything about guns.

The teachers that I know personally do not... given that it's a left leaning profession, they don't want to handle guns anymore than the School resource officer wants to teach algebra.

I'm fine with people staying in their own lanes on this one.

My aunt who's a teacher claimed she wanted come to the range with me just to learn how to shoot the one time...she chickened out once we got to the parking lot and was clearly uncomfortable that I even had guns in the car ...her being armed around children during a high-stress situation would certainly not make matters better.

That is why teachers would be armed and trained how to use a firearm on a voluntary basis. Not all of them need to be armed. Just like an armed citizenry where people are allowed to carry concealed in public. It's voluntary, and it's hardly proven to be the problem so many feared it would be.

 

[Bradskii]

Note the language I used... "largely unimpacted", not "completely unimpacted"

I corrected what you posted. Complaining about it doesn't make it less incorrect.

 

[Bradskii]

That is why teachers would be armed...

Where do they keep their weapon?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I corrected what you posted. Complaining about it doesn't make it less incorrect.

lol, you didn't correct anything.

A reduction of 1.5% is "largely unimpacted" (especially when it was already on that trajectory before the restrictions)

If a conservative politician said they "solved the inequality issue" by reducing the inequality gap by a mere 1.5% (at the expense of implementing a sweeping conservative wishlist item that infringed on a right that progressives hold dear), you'd be singing a very different tune.

In no other context would "reduced a problem by 1.5%, when it was pretty much already on that trajectory to begin with" be considered "a meaningful result"

 

[Hentenza]

You can't be serious because everyone knows that there are laws regarding knives. And no rules and regulations and restrictions on cars? What are you on about? Apart from being a ridiculous thing to say, you're using it as the basis for a monstrously stupid argument.

'Hey, umpteen people are killed falling off ladders each year but you don't see anyone trying to ban ladders. So...umm...why should you ban guns'.

That’s the point of the absurdity of the argument from the left. Did you miss that? Gun control seems to be the left’s call as a fix all but they always miss the root cause.

 

[Aldebaran]

Where do they keep their weapon?

Depending on the circumstance, location and other things, it might be carried on their person or locked in a secure part of a room.

 

[Bradskii]

Depending on the circumstance, location and other things, it might be carried on their person...

So your answer to the problem is that someone teaching young kids has a loaded gun on their person when in class.

These threads always reach a point where I know it's a complete and utter waste of my time asking for reasonable solutions to your national disgrace.

 

[Aldebaran]

So your answer to the problem is that someone teaching young kids has a loaded gun on their person when in class.

These threads always reach a point where I know it's a complete and utter waste of my time asking for reasonable solutions to your national disgrace.

Here in America, we're not paranoid about who has a gun and who doesn't, especially if they have training. What would you think of living in a state where 121,000 private citizens were legally allowed to carry a gun on their person in public? Would you be so worried about who has a gun and who doesn't that you'd just stay home? We have a state like that here, and it's not called Texas. It's California. Crime rates are supposedly dropping there. Kinda surprising with 121,000 people running around with loaded guns, eh?

 

[Bradskii]

That’s the point of the absurdity of the argument from the left.

The argument from 'the left' is that when you grant someone the use of a dangerous item, such as a car, then to limit the number of deaths one needs a boat load of rules and regulations to limit the number of people who are likely to be killed by either genuine accidents or people using the vehicles in a dangerous manner.

Your risible response is to say that hey, there are still lots of people killed by cars, so...

So...what? The rules are useless? We need more? Explain yourself.