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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

Aseyesee

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If 1 Cor. 15:53-54 had transpired already I might agree.

In the meantime there is the reality of all people being placed in a position of genuine need of God's Mercy

We'll be "made" at that point of transition. Til then people are actually incapable of honesty

If no one can be honest, truth as it is in christ, is no more then an illusion ...

I am no widow is the testimony of confusion …

Who the Son sets free … whatsoever measure you mete ...

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

To me this is the summation of the war in heaven … indicative of losing your soul, which is the fall of Babylon … the city that comes down from God out of heaven the finding of it …
 
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What is the justification God provides himself to measure the end result of his actions …
This was answered by a charming black southern lady, “honey, if you have to ask the question, you ain’t never gonna know the answer.”

Who is God justified before? He does not seek approval. Don’t get it, or do not approve? You will have an eternity to think about it
 
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"Every parable has 3 characters: God/people/devils. Mark 4:15"

What are these five (in this parable) to you?

"Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing."
The adversary is Satan, he is the accuser of the brethren, and you have to agree with him in order to repent and believe unto life.
The judge is Christ before whose judgment seat we stand. If we try to justify our sins we will be handed over to the officer
The officer is one of the Arch angels.
The prison is Purgatory where we pay for the temporal punishment for our sins
The farthing is the debt of temporal punishment owed.

The parable cannot be speaking of hell, because there is no relief for those in hell. It is everlasting punishment. This parable speaks of eventually being let out, so it cannot be hell
It is a warning to those that wish to enter the marriage supper of the Lamb without a wedding garment which is the fruits of repentance
Those that deny good works or the need for penance will have Jesus say, friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment? Then they will be bound and placed where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The only warnings are all in Scripture, we can listen to them, or we can listen to people that say you don’t have to listen. These same are as the false prophets in Jeremiah that said God would never let Jerusalem fall just before they were carried off to Babylon. The Bible could not be more clear
 
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Free2bHeretical4Him!

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(To get it out of the way) I know God answers to no one, other than himself … he is an absolute, without partiality, and one who changes not …
I enjoy reading your shared thoughts as well as your exchanges with Honey Badger. Although I must admit, I’m usually left scratching my head as I attempt to understand the spiritual context in view when they are written. Nevertheless, my spirit is usually stirred to pray and seek an understanding.
People (as we all know) justify themselves as Paul said, Their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing …
We are all cut from the same mold …
God begins the dialectic with the words let there be light (which saying light was good made darkness evil by default) … when Cain and Abel bring a sacrifice never asked for …
Interestingly, I never approached processing this passage concerning Cain and Abel, in the light of having never been asked/required from them. Appreciate the thought.
he chooses one over the other, then asks Cain why his countenance had fallen … like the words thou shalt not eat … if God had not said/chosen between the two Cain would have had no reason to rise up against Abel …

Did God count the cost to build his house,
Well, he was a carpenter wasn’t he? lol … I kid.
and find (through thought) it premeditatedly worth sacrificing the many for the few (though those he did save would have been saved from the things he would do to them if they didn’t let him save them) … how does one who is the embodiment of unconditional Love convince itself of this … (especially knowing what mankind would do to each other over time) …
Exactly … he doesn’t need to convince himself of anything. Counting the cost implies one is weighing that which one is willing to lose.

LOVE NEVER FAILS …

Blessings
 
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This was answered by a charming black southern lady, “honey, if you have to ask the question, you ain’t never gonna know the answer.”

Who is God justified before? He does not seek approval. Don’t get it, or do not approve? You will have an eternity to think about it

That certainly would be the head in sand approach ...

You wouldn’t think God would ask questions having all the answers, but he does ...

"Who is God justified before?"

He does everything after the counsel of his own will, I believe someone said ... but that was indemnified in my statement ...

God calls all to reason with him ... and you become clean by it …
 
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Aseyesee

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The adversary is Satan, he is the accuser of the brethren, and you have to agree with him in order to repent and believe unto life.
The judge is Christ before whose judgment seat we stand. If we try to justify our sins we will be handed over to the officer
The officer is one of the Arch angels.
The prison is Purgatory where we pay for the temporal punishment for our sins
The farthing is the debt of temporal punishment owed.

The parable cannot be speaking of hell, because there is no relief for those in hell. It is everlasting punishment. This parable speaks of eventually being let out, so it cannot be hell
It is a warning to those that wish to enter the marriage supper of the Lamb without a wedding garment which is the fruits of repentance
Those that deny good works or the need for penance will have Jesus say, friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment? Then they will be bound and placed where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The only warnings are all in Scripture, we can listen to them, or we can listen to people that say you don’t have to listen. These same are as the false prophets in Jeremiah that said God would never let Jerusalem fall just before they were carried off to Babylon. The Bible could not be more clear
I see this a little closer to home, in a more practical sense ... given the body of scripture before these passages lay the ground work for the parable (which is yet another depiction of a process of the soul) ...
 
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That certainly would be the head in sand approach ...

You wouldn’t think God would ask questions having all the answers, but he does ...

"Who is God justified before?"

He does everything after the counsel of his own will, I believe someone said ... but that was indemnified in my statement ...

God calls all to reason with him ... and you become clean by it …
Certainly not head in the sand You are asking how justice itself is justified. That is absurd
The same as the atheist who asks who created God? Ignorant of the fact that if He were created, He would not be God.
 
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"Every parable has 3 characters: God/people/devils. Mark 4:15"

What are these five (in this parable) to you?

"Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing."

when we are in disagreement which is to believe we are not one with our Father He then becomes our adversary and by this we become our own adversary and thus seeing Him as separate from self He becomes a judge to us and this our own measurement of Him which is this officer in picture which casts us into a pit\prison which in picture again is our own reasoning between the two of which to come out from between them we must forsake every thought\farthing by way of this reasoning and one and the same as to pick up your cross as it is to sell all you have and follow on to know ...
 
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I enjoy reading your shared thoughts as well as your exchanges with Honey Badger. Although I must admit, I’m usually left scratching my head as I attempt to understand the spiritual context in view when they are written. Nevertheless, my spirit is usually stirred to pray and seek an understanding.

i too in the beginning did a lot of head scratching until i realized it was my own attempts to understand that caused me to scratch my head :scratch:
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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If no one can be honest, truth as it is in christ, is no more then an illusion ...

I am no widow is the testimony of confusion …

Who the Son sets free … whatsoever measure you mete ...

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

To me this is the summation of the war in heaven … indicative of losing your soul, which is the fall of Babylon … the city that comes down from God out of heaven the finding of it …
If a person can't truthfully come to grips with the hard line fact that "me" (first) and everyone else has evil present within that defiles us they are blinded to the fact by the fact of it and the result is dishonesty and hypocrisy, hypocrisy being the first warning to His disciples
 
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Certainly not head in the sand You are asking how justice itself is justified. That is absurd
The same as the atheist who asks who created God? Ignorant of the fact that if He were created, He would not be God.
There is a Bible verse that says God is love, but there is not a verse that says that God is justice, just like there is no verse that said God is wrath … the sons of Zebedee thought to bring the wrath down but Jesus said they did not know what spirit they were of; but they would have never said something like this if not for the scriptures, just as Adam could not have transgressed without God’s commandment, and Christ not literally crucified through the same process …

There are no ignorant question’s just ignorant (unlearned) answers (outside of God’s answers to us, but even this is measured to us, but not by Him).

We live in a physical reality where everything has a beginning and an end, so the question has merit, howbeit in the literal or carnal sense.

Does God hold himself accountable for his own actions? … Does he hold us accountable for our actions? … Without the actions of God there would have been no Satan/Devil …
 
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If a person can't truthfully come to grips with the hard line fact that "me" (first) and everyone else has evil present within that defiles us they are blinded to the fact by the fact of it and the result is dishonesty and hypocrisy, hypocrisy being the first warning to His disciples

within what ? ... is flesh evil on its own ... is our soul inherently evil having no light of its own or is it our spirit (which is Gods spirit) evil and if so how do we then measure this evil or tell me how it be possible then to measures darkness with darkness or why it is the light is called out of darkness ...

your still arguing with yourself by putting your beliefs onto others ... without two nothing would happen and if nothing happens how would we come to the truth of who we are ....

it was not the serpent who committed the first murder or told the first lie ...
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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within what ? ... is flesh evil on its own ... is our soul inherently evil having no light of its own or is it our spirit (which is Gods spirit) evil and if so hYou and
You and your buddy continue to see the devil and his messengers as people.

An everyday basic heresy among various fringe cults
how do we then measure this evil or tell me how it be possible then to measures darkness with darkness or why it is the light is called out of darkness ...
You are not it. Simple enough? You also or I can never make it anything different than what it is
your still arguing with yourself by putting your beliefs onto others ... without two nothing would happen and if nothing happens how would we come to the truth of who we are ....

it was not the serpent who committed the first murder or told the first lie ...
It was the serpent, the Tempter IN man

Sin IS of the devil. No one in this present life has immunity FOR IT

The devil is also wild violent unseen adverse spirit, the leviathan, the behemoth, the DRAGON, that old serpent, that is NOT the people
 
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If a person can't truthfully come to grips with the hard line fact that "me" (first) and everyone else has evil present within that defiles us they are blinded to the fact by the fact of it and the result is dishonesty and hypocrisy, hypocrisy being the first warning to His disciples
That is the fundamental reason we come to God is it not … as the Hebrew writer put it … not laying again the foundation of … which saying “I see” requires … the only way to follow (knowingly) where he leads is by picking up your cross, which is a fundamental truth across the entirety of scripture …

The statement there is no one good, but God is the embodiment of a single eye ... which is foundational even for the mind of Jesus Christ, which Paul told those who were unable to bear the meat of the word had (but a double minded man remains unstable in all his ways) …

I have looked upon whom I have pierced … and have mourned him as an only son … which was more inclusive then it was for Paul, when he fell to the earth …
 
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You and your buddy continue to see the devil and his messengers as people.
Not people ... thoughts (if I'm not speaking out of line for Honey Badger) ... whether you want to believe the devil is literal or not makes no difference to me ... the end result is the same ... the two become as far as east is from west ... all by and for, an only begotten son ...
 
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when we are in disagreement which is to believe we are not one with our Father He then becomes our adversary and by this we become our own adversary and thus seeing Him as separate from self He becomes a judge to us and this our own measurement of Him which is this officer in picture which casts us into a pit\prison which in picture again is our own reasoning between the two of which to come out from between them we must forsake every thought\farthing by way of this reasoning and one and the same as to pick up your cross as it is to sell all you have and follow on to know ...
It is not the simplicity of the (eternal) gospel, it is the singleness of it ...
 
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There is a Bible verse that says God is love, but there is not a verse that says that God is justice, just like there is no verse that said God is wrath … the sons of Zebedee thought to bring the wrath down but Jesus said they did not know what spirit they were of; but they would have never said something like this if not for the scriptures, just as Adam could not have transgressed without God’s commandment, and Christ not literally crucified through the same process …

There are no ignorant question’s just ignorant (unlearned) answers (outside of God’s answers to us, but even this is measured to us, but not by Him).

We live in a physical reality where everything has a beginning and an end, so the question has merit, howbeit in the literal or carnal sense.

Does God hold himself accountable for his own actions? … Does he hold us accountable for our actions? … Without the actions of God there would have been no Satan/Devil …
I believe you are mistaken. It is true at this point, God’s mercy is emphasized as we are ignorant of the extent of our evil and God wants all to come to repentance. That is not a cause for us to behave presumptuously as if God would never execute justice: Romans 2 explains

1 Wherefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest. For wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself. For thou dost the same things which thou judgest. 2 For we know that the judgment of God is, according to truth, against them that do such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them who do such things, and dost the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness, and patience, and longsuffering? Knowest thou not, that the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance? 5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God.

6 Who will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. 9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek



We invite others to the mercy of God. Repent and cease to do evil, and God will forgive. His mercy endures forever, but what of those that neglect His mercy? Scripture says they receive wrath and indignation




Isaiah 5 tells us



16 And the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and the holy God shall be sanctified in justice. 17 And the lambs shall feed according to their order, and strangers shall eat the deserts turned into fruitfulness. 18 Woe to you that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as the rope of a cart. 19 That say: Let him make haste, and let his work come quickly, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel come, that we may know it. 20 Woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe to you that are wise in your own eyes, and prudent in your own conceits. 22 Woe to you that are mighty to drink wine, and stout men at drunkenness. 23 That justify the wicked for gifts, and take away the justice of the just from him. 24 Therefore as the tongue of the fire devoureth the stubble, and the heat of the flame consumeth it: so shall their root be as ashes, and their bud shall go up as dust: for they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and have blasphemed the word of the Holy One of Israel. 25 Therefore is the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched out his hand upon them, and struck them: and the mountains were troubled, and their carcasses became as dung in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still



Now is the time where Jesus offers mercy, as should we that are called by His name. The scroll which He read at the start of His ministry says it well

Isaiah 61
1 The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord hath anointed me: he hath sent me to preach to the meek, to heal the contrite of heart, and to preach a release to the captives, and deliverance to them that are shut up. 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord


That is now. The time for mercy is here, but it will not always be so, as the verse continues when it says

….. and the day of vengeance of our God: to comfort all that mourn: 3 To appoint to the mourners of Sion, and to give them a crown for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, a garment of praise for the spirit of grief: and they shall be called in it the mighty ones of justice, the planting of the Lord to glorify him.
 
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I believe you are mistaken. It is true at this point, God’s mercy is emphasized as we are ignorant of the extent of our evil and God wants all to come to repentance. That is not a cause for us to behave presumptuously as if God would never execute justice: Romans 2 explains

1 Wherefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest. For wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself. For thou dost the same things which thou judgest. 2 For we know that the judgment of God is, according to truth, against them that do such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them who do such things, and dost the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness, and patience, and longsuffering? Knowest thou not, that the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance? 5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God.

6 Who will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. 9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek



We invite others to the mercy of God. Repent and cease to do evil, and God will forgive. His mercy endures forever, but what of those that neglect His mercy? Scripture says they receive wrath and indignation




Isaiah 5 tells us



16 And the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and the holy God shall be sanctified in justice. 17 And the lambs shall feed according to their order, and strangers shall eat the deserts turned into fruitfulness. 18 Woe to you that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as the rope of a cart. 19 That say: Let him make haste, and let his work come quickly, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel come, that we may know it. 20 Woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe to you that are wise in your own eyes, and prudent in your own conceits. 22 Woe to you that are mighty to drink wine, and stout men at drunkenness. 23 That justify the wicked for gifts, and take away the justice of the just from him. 24 Therefore as the tongue of the fire devoureth the stubble, and the heat of the flame consumeth it: so shall their root be as ashes, and their bud shall go up as dust: for they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and have blasphemed the word of the Holy One of Israel. 25 Therefore is the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched out his hand upon them, and struck them: and the mountains were troubled, and their carcasses became as dung in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still



Now is the time where Jesus offers mercy, as should we that are called by His name. The scroll which He read at the start of His ministry says it well

Isaiah 61
1 The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord hath anointed me: he hath sent me to preach to the meek, to heal the contrite of heart, and to preach a release to the captives, and deliverance to them that are shut up. 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord


That is now. The time for mercy is here, but it will not always be so, as the verse continues when it says

….. and the day of vengeance of our God: to comfort all that mourn: 3 To appoint to the mourners of Sion, and to give them a crown for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, a garment of praise for the spirit of grief: and they shall be called in it the mighty ones of justice, the planting of the Lord to glorify him.
I am referencing God before the Word was sent forth … and where you are, if you be “in Christ” …

My statement/question is not about who ascends or who descends, it is about the one who is in the midst … to the left or right of the cross lies a thief … this leads to a casting down of the truth in us, and it brings about a process in our soul that leads us into a wilderness, wherein is a bloodless altar … like wine that moves itself in the cup … the serpent lies in the sea … this in the light of the sons (no gender implied) that we are … the narrative that begins, and is, the Word sent forth, like bread cast upon the waters …

The Word (Christ) was crucified from the foundation of the world …

God is not justification, God’s justification is himself; in the form of a seed/son which was the name Jesus declared in a relational/literal way … (in picture form referencing the garden scenario) an because he could swear by no greater, he swore by himself … which has more to do with us then we are willing to forsake to enter into …

The Word/words, is/are, infinite (to the fullest extent of what that word means); it is the chosen path; it is what calls light out of darkness … as it is the process of a seed … all in the light of picking up a cross …
 
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