The mass

[Xeno.of.athens]

Mass in English - rather than in Latin.

 

[JM]

 

[RileyG]

The service on Good Friday is a communion service, not a mass, because a mass necessitates the recitation of the words of institution, which are not spoken on Good Friday. This applies to both the extraordinary and the ordinary forms of the mass. It is considered presanctified as the Mass of the Lord's Supper is celebrated on Holy Thursday, and the consecrated hosts from this mass are reserved for the communion service on Good Friday.

It’s my understanding in the pre-Vatican II Good Friday liturgy, Holy Communion was not received by the faithful.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It’s my understanding in the pre-Vatican II Good Friday liturgy, Holy Communion was not received by the faithful.

I believe you may be correct.

 

[RileyG]

I believe you may be correct.

It’s also my understanding visiting 7 Churches to venerate the cross was part of the devotion on Good Friday. IIRC. Not to go off topic.

 

[The Liturgist]

It’s my understanding in the pre-Vatican II Good Friday liturgy, Holy Communion was not received by the faithful.

I don’t know for sure about that, since I haven’t seen the rubrics for the Mass of the Presanctified using the 1965 missal, which is not well-known but which did implement the reforms required by Sacrosanctum Concilium.

We must remember the subsequent reforms that led to the Novus Ordo Missae were the work of the Concilium, but were in addition to the reforms required by the decree Sacrosanctum Concilium (which did not create the Concilium, which was rather organized by Pope Paul VI).

But I would also note that the 1955 revision of the Paschal Triduum by Pope Pius XII distresses me more than the Novus Ordo Missae, because the latter left open the option to celebrate it in a traditional manner, which we can see at parishes like St. John Cantius in Chicago, although the rituals of the older mass, particularly in its Solemn form at the Elevation of the Chalice, are exquisite, one of those moments in the liturgy like the Censing of the Altar in the Coptic Rite, where the priest will swing the thurible 360 degrees, or in the Syriac Orthodox form of the West Syriac Rite the blessing at the end of the Qurbono where the priest Will bless the laity with the sign of the cross (using, if I recall, his hand cross), while keeping his other hand on the Holy Table of the altar, or in the Byzantine Rite when the priest proclaims “Thine Own of Thine Own, We Offer Unto Thee, On Behalf of All and For All” - moments of liturgical ecstasy. There are also many i haven’t mentioned, both in the Tridentine mass and in the other liturgies, for example the East Syriac Rite, although I don’t know how to describe all of them, for example, there is something the priest does with his cope in the East Syriac Rite.

At any rate, the 1955 reform to the Paschal Triduum was very unfortunate because the old Triduum was extremely similiar to the Eastern Orthodox liturgy, since in both cases it was Hagiopolitan in origin, with refinements by Pope St. Gregory the Great, who wrote the Presanctified Liturgy (usually called the Mass of the Presanctified in the Roman Rite). Unfortunately, none of his wording or the hymn “Let my prayer arise” survived the 1955 reforms, and likewise the Paschal Vigils celebrated on the morning of Holy Saturday, like the Vesperal Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine Rite, which featured 12 Old Testament lessons that prophesied the Passion and Resurrection of Christ our True God (the Byzantine Rite has 14 New Testament lessons, mostly overlapping those in the Roman Rite, with a couple of variations), was moved to the evening (despite the fact that the Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday vesperal liturgies had been in the morning since antiquity), and 8 of the 12 Old Testament lessons were deleted.

It’s also my understanding visiting 7 Churches to venerate the cross was part of the devotion on Good Friday. IIRC. Not to go off topic.

In Rome there are the celebrated “Station Churches” which are visited in Lent and Holy Week. New Liturgical Movement did a series on them.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I don’t know for sure about that, since I haven’t seen the rubrics for the Mass of the Presanctified using the 1965 missal, which is not well-known but which did implement the reforms required by Sacrosanctum Concilium.

We must remember the subsequent reforms that led to the Novus Ordo Missae were the work of the Concilium, but were in addition to the reforms required by the decree Sacrosanctum Concilium (which did not create the Concilium, which was rather organized by Pope Paul VI).

But I would also note that the 1955 revision of the Paschal Triduum by Pope Pius XII distresses me more than the Novus Ordo Missae, because the latter left open the option to celebrate it in a traditional manner, which we can see at parishes like St. John Cantius in Chicago, although the rituals of the older mass, particularly in its Solemn form at the Elevation of the Chalice, are exquisite, one of those moments in the liturgy like the Censing of the Altar in the Coptic Rite, where the priest will swing the thurible 360 degrees, or in the Syriac Orthodox form of the West Syriac Rite the blessing at the end of the Qurbono where the priest Will bless the laity with the sign of the cross (using, if I recall, his hand cross), while keeping his other hand on the Holy Table of the altar, or in the Byzantine Rite when the priest proclaims “Thine Own of Thine Own, We Offer Unto Thee, On Behalf of All and For All” - moments of liturgical ecstasy. There are also many i haven’t mentioned, both in the Tridentine mass and in the other liturgies, for example the East Syriac Rite, although I don’t know how to describe all of them, for example, there is something the priest does with his cope in the East Syriac Rite.

At any rate, the 1955 reform to the Paschal Triduum was very unfortunate because the old Triduum was extremely similiar to the Eastern Orthodox liturgy, since in both cases it was Hagiopolitan in origin, with refinements by Pope St. Gregory the Great, who wrote the Presanctified Liturgy (usually called the Mass of the Presanctified in the Roman Rite). Unfortunately, none of his wording or the hymn “Let my prayer arise” survived the 1955 reforms, and likewise the Paschal Vigils celebrated on the morning of Holy Saturday, like the Vesperal Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine Rite, which featured 12 Old Testament lessons that prophesied the Passion and Resurrection of Christ our True God (the Byzantine Rite has 14 New Testament lessons, mostly overlapping those in the Roman Rite, with a couple of variations), was moved to the evening (despite the fact that the Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday vesperal liturgies had been in the morning since antiquity), and 8 of the 12 Old Testament lessons were deleted.



In Rome there are the celebrated “Station Churches” which are visited in Lent and Holy Week. New Liturgical Movement did a series on them.

Wiki does a good job with a bit of a general description:
The Paschal Triduum or Easter Triduum, Holy Triduum, or the Three Days, is the Christian period of three days that begins with the liturgy on the evening of Maundy Thursday, reaches its high point in the Easter Vigil, and closes with evening prayer on Easter Sunday.
In our tradition, here in North America, the "Lutheran" version of the Mass of the Pre-Sanctified on Good Friday is rarely practiced. We, generally, try not to reserve consecrated elements except for Deacons to bring the Sacrament to the sick and shut-ins and for Good Friday. The Triduum is not considered a series of services, but one service over a series of days.

Pastor and I have discussed the possibility of restoring this ancient practice in our Parish and are considering the logistics of doing so. During the tail end of Covid, we did the Vigil Mass, Easter Morning (sunrise) and Resurrection liturgies so all of our Parishioners would be able to attend Mass at Easter. I served as Deacon, Acolyte, and Crucifer for all three services, Pastor and I were exhausted,,, In a good way.

 

[The Liturgist]

Pastor and I have discussed the possibility of restoring this ancient practice in our Parish and are considering the logistics of doing so.

In which I will support you in any way I can.

I particularly reccommend the Presanctified if you can get away with it, even if limited to Good Friday, because it is a liturgy that by its very nature refutes Receptionism and asserts the doctrine of the Real Presence.

In the Orthodox Church we do not do Eucharistic adoration, although I don’t object to it, rather, we use the Reserved Sacrament only for the purposes you mentioned, and during weekdays in Lent and Holy Week, except Holy Thursday and major fixed feast days (primarily and historically, just the Annunciation) . Basically, on those occasions when purple vestments rather than black are being worn we celebrate the liturgy, whereas during the very solemn weekday services it would be a bit much to celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil. Great and Holy Friday is the only day on which it is impossible to celebrate the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Rite and most others - the Armenians however try to only celebrate the Divine Liturgy on Sunday even for major feasts, so the Nativity which they celebrate together with the Baptism of our Lord on January 6th and Holy Thursday are two examples of rare Armenian exceptions, where they will celebrate the Divine Liturgy during the week. But they do celebrate the Divine Office on other days, even in some parishes in the US, but it is rare.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

In which I will support you in any way I can.

I particularly reccommend the Presanctified if you can get away with it, even if limited to Good Friday, because it is a liturgy that by its very nature refutes Receptionism and asserts the doctrine of the Real Presence.

In the Orthodox Church we do not do Eucharistic adoration, although I don’t object to it, rather, we use the Reserved Sacrament only for the purposes you mentioned, and during weekdays in Lent and Holy Week, except Holy Thursday and major fixed feast days (primarily and historically, just the Annunciation) . Basically, on those occasions when purple vestments rather than black are being worn we celebrate the liturgy, whereas during the very solemn weekday services it would be a bit much to celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil. Great and Holy Friday is the only day on which it is impossible to celebrate the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Rite and most others - the Armenians however try to only celebrate the Divine Liturgy on Sunday even for major feasts, so the Nativity which they celebrate together with the Baptism of our Lord on January 6th and Holy Thursday are two examples of rare Armenian exceptions, where they will celebrate the Divine Liturgy during the week. But they do celebrate the Divine Office on other days, even in some parishes in the US, but it is rare.

We do Eucharistic adoration only in the context of the mass; at the Elevation of the Host, at the Elevation of the Chalice, and at the Pax Domini:

 

[The Liturgist]

We do Eucharistic adoration only in the context of the mass; at the Elevation of the Host, at the Elevation of the Chalice, and at the Pax Domini:

View attachment 370059

Indeed, the Orthodox likewise - what I meant was, outside of the liturgy, we do not engage in this, but that said, I do not object to the Roman Catholic practice; at one time I did, but since then I have come to regard Eucharistic adoration as a great tradition within their church that brings people into church for devotional prayer; unfortunately the Roman church has not had much luck in reversing the lack of Divine Office services or attendance since before the Council of Trent, so it is difficult to find a Roman Catholic church other than a cathedral or monastery or church connected with a religious order that has clergy in it, such as canons regular or friars, that celebrates Vespers, for example. Indeed of the Western churches only the Anglicans and the Western Rite Orthodox have had steady success in getting people to attend Divine Office services, but lately in Anglican churches these have been declining (in the UK, this is attributed in part to people listening to choral evensong via the BBC; another factor I would say has been the abolition of most of the boys choirs which used to be ubiquitous in Anglican churches and cathedrals; any church which has more than six boys of appropriate age should organize a boys’ choir. Interestingly enough every Coptic Orthodox church tends to have this since all of the youth are typically tonsured as Psaltis.

Additionally, not all Orthodox liturgies include the Elevation, for example, the Eastern Orthodox liturgy lacks it, but in the Syriac Orthodox liturgy, for example, the priest will elevate the chalice and diskos* simultaneously, crossing his arms as he does so.

*This is a paten that has a base on it, like the chalice, which makes for easier handling; i greatly prefer it to the Western paten particularly due to my arthritis, since I can just grasp the stem on the Diskos, and also it is larger which makes for easier handling of the leavened bread used by the Eastern Orthodox, Assyrians and most Oriental Orthodox except for the Armenian Apostolic Church.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Indeed, the Orthodox likewise - what I meant was, outside of the liturgy, we do not engage in this, but that said, I do not object to the Roman Catholic practice; at one time I did, but since then I have come to regard Eucharistic adoration as a great tradition within their church that brings people into church for devotional prayer; unfortunately the Roman church has not had much luck in reversing the lack of Divine Office services or attendance since before the Council of Trent, so it is difficult to find a Roman Catholic church other than a cathedral or monastery or church connected with a religious order that has clergy in it, such as canons regular or friars, that celebrates Vespers, for example. Indeed of the Western churches only the Anglicans and the Western Rite Orthodox have had steady success in getting people to attend Divine Office services, but lately in Anglican churches these have been declining (in the UK, this is attributed in part to people listening to choral evensong via the BBC; another factor I would say has been the abolition of most of the boys choirs which used to be ubiquitous in Anglican churches and cathedrals; any church which has more than six boys of appropriate age should organize a boys’ choir. Interestingly enough every Coptic Orthodox church tends to have this since all of the youth are typically tonsured as Psaltis.

Additionally, not all Orthodox liturgies include the Elevation, for example, the Eastern Orthodox liturgy lacks it, but in the Syriac Orthodox liturgy, for example, the priest will elevate the chalice and diskos* simultaneously, crossing his arms as he does so.

*This is a paten that has a base on it, like the chalice, which makes for easier handling; i greatly prefer it to the Western paten particularly due to my arthritis, since I can just grasp the stem on the Diskos, and also it is larger which makes for easier handling of the leavened bread used by the Eastern Orthodox, Assyrians and most Oriental Orthodox except for the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Sadly, most in our Parish still have a hard time with the Elevation, genuflecting, and presenting the cup and host at the Pax Domini, despite having it explained numerous times.

Not all of our Pastors will do the elevation; but most do present at the Pax. Less than 1/2 Genuflect; about the same number that use Chasubles.

Your Discos sounds much like our Ciborium. We have two, one has what we believe to be adequate to serve Mass, the second holds unconsecrated hosts in reserve. If we run short, we take some and Pastor will consecrate those before distribution. Likewise, the crewet holds only unconsecrated wine, should more be required, Pastor will empty the chalice, dispense more wine into it, and then consecrate it as well. Below is a page from the Altar Guild Manual that I put together when we started using a more traditional set-up.

If anyone is interested I would gladly share the whole document with them; it can be used as a template for any altar guild for any setup.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Sadly, most in our Parish still have a hard time with the Elevation, genuflecting, and presenting the cup and host at the Pax Domini, despite having it explained numerous times.

Not all of our Pastors will do the elevation; but most do present at the Pax. Less than 1/2 Genuflect; about the same number that use Chasubles.

Your Discos sounds much like our Ciborium. We have two, one has what we believe to be adequate to serve Mass, the second holds unconsecrated hosts in reserve. If we run short, we take some and Pastor will consecrate those before distribution. Likewise, the crewet holds only unconsecrated wine, should more be required, Pastor will empty the chalice, dispense more wine into it, and then consecrate it as well. Below is a page from the Altar Guild Manual that I put together when we started using a more traditional set-up.

View attachment 370070

If anyone is interested I would gladly share the whole document with them; it can be used as a template for any altar guild for any setup.

Some better Pictures: