Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

[durangodawood]

Ok, so then it's not an AR15 problem or a magazine capacity problem, correct?

Your logic is interesting: Because one thing causes a problem, therefore this other thing cannot cause a problem too.

Thats not the way I was taught to think.

 

[Aldebaran]

Your logic is interesting: Because one thing causes a problem, therefore this other thing cannot cause a problem too.

Thats not the way I was taught to think.

I'm pointing out that the gun is always what is looked at first and foremost when these shootings happen.
This guy was clearly mentally unstable and hate-filled. His manifesto, Youtube video, his scribblings on his guns and the fact that he targeted a Catholic school seems far more relevant than which guns he used.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I'm pointing out that the gun is always what is looked at first and foremost when these shootings happen.
This guy was clearly mentally unstable and hate-filled. His manifesto, Youtube video, his scribblings on his guns and the fact that he targeted a Catholic school seems far more relevant than which guns he used.

Ultimately, guns are facilitators of violence and, at least in theory, an easier issue to address than mental health.

 

[durangodawood]

I'm pointing out that the gun is always what is looked at first and foremost when these shootings happen.
This guy was clearly mentally unstable and hate-filled. His manifesto, Youtube video, his scribblings on his guns and the fact that he targeted a Catholic school seems far more relevant than which guns he used.

I dont know exactly how to weight how much each issue contributes to the problem in each case.

Was it 80% state of mind and 20% easy access to very destructive weapons? The other way around? I pretty firmly believe that both of those are significant issues.

 

[Aldebaran]

I dont know exactly how to weight how much each issue contributes to the problem in each case.

Was it 80% state of mind and 20% easy access to very destructive weapons? The other way around? I pretty firmly believe that both of those are significant issues.

Considering how kids used to be allowed to have guns in their lockers and vehicles in the early and mid-20th century without any school shooting problems, I'd say it's more of a state of mind problem than a gun problem.
Guns are now prohibited on school grounds. So much for that stopping the problem.

 

[JosephZ]

Considering how kids used to be allowed to have guns in their lockers and vehicles in the early and mid-20th century without any school shooting problems, I'd say it's more of a state of mind problem than a gun problem.
Guns are now prohibited on school grounds. So much for that stopping the problem.

There have always been shootings taking place at schools.

Today, there are far more guns in circulation than there was in the past and the number of assault-style weapons in the US has increased from 1–2 million in the 1970s to more than 25 million today.

 

[Aldebaran]

There are far more guns in circulation than there was in the past. Also, the number of assault-style weapons in the US has increased from 1–2 million in the 1970s to more than 25 million today.

That doesn't address why kids who had access to guns in school weren't using them to shoot people. I mean, the talk of today is how the problem is easy access to guns. If a kid has a gun in his car or even in his school locker, access doesn't get much easier than that. Sure beats having to break the law and get through metal detectors and face jail time.
But it didn't happen back then when gun access was more available to kids.

 

[RileyG]

We need to outlaw transgenderism.

You cannot outlaw a mental illness. That’s like saying we have to outlaw schizophrenia.

 

[durangodawood]

Considering how kids used to be allowed to have guns in their lockers and vehicles in the early and mid-20th century without any school shooting problems, I'd say it's more of a state of mind problem than a gun problem.
Guns are now prohibited on school grounds. So much for that stopping the problem.

Was that really widespread, like common? Or was this mainly a rural west sort of thing? Did they have 30 round magazines?

Regardless, my take is: after We The People generally have shown we responsible enough, then we can talk about having highly destructive weapons at hand. If that means we need to go through some cultural healing first, then thats what it will take. It doesnt seem like its going to happen overnight at any rate.

 

[RileyG]

Considering how kids used to be allowed to have guns in their lockers and vehicles in the early and mid-20th century without any school shooting problems, I'd say it's more of a state of mind problem than a gun problem.
Guns are now prohibited on school grounds. So much for that stopping the problem.

Maybe we have a mental health crisis now that caused so many mass shootings?

 

[RileyG]

There have always been shootings taking place at schools.

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Today, there are far more guns in circulation than there was in the past and the number of assault-style weapons in the US has increased from 1–2 million in the 1970s to more than 25 million today.

That’s terrifying!

 

[Aldebaran]

Maybe we have a mental health crisis now that caused so many mass shootings?

Sounds about right! Now, if we can get the mental health crisis recognized as such rather than feeding it and making it worse, it would go a long ways toward addressing it.

 

[RileyG]

I did. Some noted significant and concerning rates of domestic violence within the transgender community. While not all transgender people have partners who are also transgender, many do. I've noticed a large number of couples who are mtf / ftm as well as ftm / ftm. It does seem rarer to meet a couple who is mtf / mtf, though mtf / f couples are quite common, with the transgender partner often considering themselves to be in a lesbian relationship.

Yes, there are higher rates of violence, depression, anxiety, and other mental health concerns within the transgender community. I would also suspect that many, many of these people, especially young people, were also sexually abused as children. This really needs to be looked into. This is the second time a transgender person has shot up a Christian school and killed children in the last few years. That is worrying.

And, frankly, anti-Christian rhetoric on transgender online spaces is very real. Not just ideological rhetoric, but violent rhetoric. Calls to "kill Christofascists" are not uncommon. And while not all or even most transgender people are like this, there is a very real, very radicalized segment of this community that poses a real, not imagined, threat to those who do not agree with them.

Yup. It needs to be treated like a mental health issue without the so called trans community bigotry because someone believes their lifestyle is wrong and/or can cause problems. I refuse to bow down to this lunacy. It’s only becoming so common because our mental health crisis in America continues to worsen and worsen.

 

[RileyG]

Sounds about right! Now, if we can get the mental health crisis recognized as such rather than feeding it and making it worse, it would go a long ways toward addressing it.

Agreed! Affirmations someone’s delusion is real only harms the person.

 

[Aldebaran]

Was that really widespread, like common? Or was this mainly a rural west sort of thing? Did they have 30 round magazines?

My take is after We The People generally have shown we responsible enough, then we can talk about having highly destructive weapons at hand. If that means we need to go through some cultural healing first, then thats what it will take. It doesnt seem like its going to happen overnight at any rate.

Maybe Hollywood could stop making movies that glorify killing. Won't happen though.
Either way, a 30 round magazine doesn't cause someone to do a school shooting. I own an AR15 myself, and I have three 30 round mags for it that haven't caused me to shoot anyone. If I were to buy a 100 round magazine for it, I doubt that would cause me to shoot anyone either.

 

[RileyG]

Maybe Hollywood could stop making movies that glorify killing. Won't happen though.
Either way, a 30 round magazine doesn't cause someone to do a school shooting. I own an AR15 myself, and I have three 30 round mags for it that haven't caused me to shoot anyone. If I were to buy a 100 round magazine for it, I doubt that would cause me to shoot anyone either.

I don’t think violent movies cause NORMAL people to become violent. Those who have predispositions to violence, sure. Violent movies have been around for decades. They are nothing new. Although, they’re probably more common nowadays.

 

[Aldebaran]

I don’t think violent movies cause NORMAL people to become violent. Those who have predispositions to violence, sure. Violent movies have been around for decades. They are nothing new. Although, they’re probably more common nowadays.

That's a good point. I mean I've seen many of them, and used to play the video games with violence as well.
The mentally ill used to be institutionalized and treated, but are now celebrated for their "diversity", and then eventually go haywire when their fabricated reality comes crashing down. Society propping up a false sense of reality only encourages the mental illness to become worse until it becomes deadly.
Good thing hospitals don't tell people who have diagnosed with cancer to celebrate their cancer and to embrace it as a friend. It wouldn't address the problem any better than treating mental illness that way.

 

[o_mlly]

A ban on assault style weapons, a ban on high capacity magazines, and possibly a waiting period since it has been stated that the guns used had "recently" been purchased. Time will tell on that one.

An vague law is typically unenforceable. What specific and distinguishing features make a gun such that it would be categorized as an "assault style" weapon? What capacity makes a magazine to be categorized as "high"?

More fundamentally, if, as many experts interpret, the framers of the constitution drafted the second amendment to ensure that the citizens of free states retain the ability to resist a tyrannical federal government then restricting them to possess less effective weapons would defeat the very reason for the 2nd amendment.

 

[dogs4thewin]

“Mass shootings (MS) account for less than 1% of firearm deaths in the US, but the frequency has increased.1 Risk factors for MS perpetration include societal discrimination, contagion effects, firearm access, mental illness, and substance abuse.2 Previous geographically and analytically limited studies found MS with handguns had higher fatality rates than those with rifles,3 and following an age-based assault weapons (AWs) restriction there was a reduction in firearm violence from AWs.4 Another study found that the 1994 federal AWs ban was associated with fewer MS.5 To further investigate the association between type of firearm and lethality of MS, this study examined what firearms were present at publicly targeted fatal MS and determined if AWs were associated with a higher number of injuries or deaths.

Results
From August 1, 1966, to November 6, 2023, there were 184 publicly targeted fatal MS (3.2 per year) with 1342 total deaths and 2084 nonfatal injuries. Multiple firearms were present in 96 events (52.2%) (mean 3.1 per event); handguns were the most common firearm type (145 MS [78.8%] involved a handgun) followed by 55 (29.2%) that involved an AW, but only 13 (7.1%) involved AWs exclusively. Incidents with AWs (vs without) were more likely to have multiple firearms (45 [81.8%] vs 51 [39.5%]) and shooters with no firearms experience (6 [11.1%] vs 38 [29.7%]) (Table 1).

Banning assault weapons could result in less mass shootings, however, assault weapons were only used in 29% of ms compared to handguns being present on 78.8% of ms so banning aws is only going to force those that have the predisposition to do a ms to use a different type of weapon like a handgun or a shotgun.

and when you look at the total number of firearm deaths ( and really if you asks me they should change how they define mass shooting anyway it is even less.

 

[durangodawood]

Maybe Hollywood could stop making movies that glorify killing. Won't happen though.
Either way, a 30 round magazine doesn't cause someone to do a school shooting. I own an AR15 myself, and I have three 30 round mags for it that haven't caused me to shoot anyone. If I were to buy a 100 round magazine for it, I doubt that would cause me to shoot anyone either.

If you did decide to do an angry hateful school shooting (NOT saying you would) Id prefer if you could only find a single shot bolt action rather than an ar and sling of 30 round magazines.