• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,704
7,638
North Carolina
✟359,531.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Read the indictment.

It isn't over yet.
Or maybe in terms of award, it is.

All that lawfare served to guarantee him the White House.
You'd think they would figure that out. . .but their darkened hearts blind them.
The more they try to undo him, the more they drive him to success and themselves into the wilderness.
They may well remain there for a generation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
42,450
20,318
Finger Lakes
✟321,052.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Or maybe in terms of award, it is.
The fat lady hasn't sung.
All that lawfare served to guarantee him the White House.
You'd think they would figure that out. . .but their darkened hearts blind them.
The more they try to undo him, the more they drive him to success and themselves into the wilderness.
They may well remain there for a generation.
That is quite fantastical.
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
22,972
14,174
Earth
✟251,877.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
They violated the law.
We’re supposed to wait until a person is indicted, tried and convicted before passing such judgment, (or so I have been told).
 
Upvote 0

Say it aint so

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2020
3,452
2,955
27
Seattle
✟172,794.00
Country
United States
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single

Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Guess who’s behind it

[Adam Schiff, Letitia James, and now Lisa Cook.]

What gets me, and should get you, is the flimsiness of these accusations despite how loudly they’ve been bruited about on the MAGA right as though they’re signals of profound moral turpitude on the part of the targets, and how they all originated in the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which is led by Trump acolyte and sycophant William J. Pulte, in private life a big homebuilder.

The important question, in the view of Adam Levitin of Georgetown Law, is who is driving these investigations and levying these accusations, and whether they reflect an “enemies list” Pulte has compiled on Donald Trump’s behalf. I asked the FHFA to respond to Levitin’s questions, but received no response.

...none of the public accusations from the FHFA specify what, if any, financial advantages were received by the targets.

And it’s unlikely that they’re the result of random audits of FHFA loans, as Levitin observed in relation to the Cook case.

“No one ever goes back and examines loan applications on performing loans for occupancy fraud; that would entail expenses for no benefit,” he wrote. “Instead, the only way anyone would have noticed a problem with Cook’s loan application is that Pulte, as head of FHFA, directed Fannie or Freddie to pull her application. That is unheard of.”

[In Schiff's case, we have an FHFA memo that says as much. The order came from one of the IGs Trump installed after firing most of them.]

The Fannie Mae memo says that the FHFA inspector general demanded “the loan file and any related investigative or quality control documentation, as well as all other loans associated with...Adam B. Schiff.”

The allegations against Schiff relate to his ownership of two homes, one in Burbank and the second in the Washington, D.C., area. But his dual ownership obviously was known to his mortgage lenders, and he has said that he took the homeowner’s property tax exemption only on the Burbank property.

[For James] In all but one of several documents, she stated that the niece would live in the house; according to her lawyer, on one form she said she’d be the occupant. But the bank could hardly have been misled, given the other documents. ... One form filed in 2001 regarding a Brooklyn brownstone bought for her family listed the property as having five units, but all the other pertinent forms stated correctly that it was four units. ... And in the 1983 purchase of house in Queens, New York, James’ father identified her as his spouse, not his daughter, on one form among others that identified her correctly.

Back in 2014, David H. Stevens, a former federal housing official then serving as CEO of the Mortgage Bankers Assn., told the Washington Post that the paper file for a standard mortgage had ballooned to 200-500 pages. “The likelihood of a minor defect is almost 100 percent,” he said. That reduces the significance of the errors Pulte claims to have found nearly to the vanishing point, especially given the paucity of evidence that Schiff, James or Cook got a financial benefit from any of them.

... the law is not concerned with insignificant trifles. In the Trump case, however, [the judge] declared that Trump and his fellow defendants saved tens of millions of dollars. “The frauds found here,” he wrote, “leap off the page and shock the conscience.”
Kind of like both Comey and McCabe being audited, it's just a coincidence.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,704
7,638
North Carolina
✟359,531.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We’re supposed to wait until a person is indicted, tried and convicted before passing such judgment, (or so I have been told).
Then you misunderstand.

Each gets to decide for himself what he considers sufficient evidence to pass judgment.

If I see my cousin rob a store, I'm not going to wait for a conviction before I pass judgment.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
42,450
20,318
Finger Lakes
✟321,052.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You demonstrating why it is true.
Why what is true? The appeals on the award are not over yet, so even if it becomes true in the future, it isn't true now.
 
Upvote 0

A2SG

Gumby
Jun 17, 2008
9,976
3,903
Massachusetts
✟175,831.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Then you misunderstand.

Each gets to decide for himself what he considers sufficient evidence to pass judgment.

If I see my cousin rob a store, I'm not going to wait for a conviction before I pass judgment.
You may want to tell that to the people who have complained that Letitia James ran for AG on a platform of "getting Trump," because she believed he was guilty of fraud. They say he was innocent until proven guilty, and she shouldn't have decided he was guilty before the trial.

Of course, as it turns out, she did prove he was guilty of fraud; but the point made is that our legal system does presume innocence until guilt has been proven in a court of law.

-- A2SG, but you do kinda need evidence for that sort of thing.....
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,704
7,638
North Carolina
✟359,531.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You may want to tell that to the people who have complained that Letitia James ran for AG on a platform of "getting Trump," because she believed he was guilty of fraud. They say he was innocent until proven guilty, and she shouldn't have decided he was guilty before the trial.
The catch there for me is saying she should not have thought him guilty before he was convicted. . .then why would she try to convict him of guilt if she didn't think he was guilty before he was convicted?

And I reserve that same right of opinion before conviction.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

A2SG

Gumby
Jun 17, 2008
9,976
3,903
Massachusetts
✟175,831.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The catch there for me is saying she should not have thought him guilty before he was convicted. . .then why would she try to convict him of guilt if she didn't think he was guilty before he was convicted?

And I reserve that same right of opinion before conviction.
Of course. You, and anyone else, are perfectly free to hold whatever opinion you like, regardless of whether that opinion comports with reality or not. It just strikes me as strange when some people will proclaim "Trump is innocent until proven guilty!" and even extend that presumption after he has been proven guilty, but will not extend that same presumption for others. Accusations are not proof of guilt, after all.

In this specific case, from what I've seen, the accusations come from nothing more than minor errors in a mountain of paperwork. Anyone who has bought a home or applied for a mortgage knows how much paperwork that involves, simple errors can easily occur. That is not by any means proof of fraud, much less criminal activity or intent.

Thus the double standard. Letitia James is accused of fraud because she made a slight error on one line of a mortgage document so she must be guilty! But Trump having been proven guilty of fraud on multiple occasions is called "lawfare" and some continue to claim he was railroaded.

-- A2SG, if I weren't so cynical by now, I'd be surprised by this.....
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,704
7,638
North Carolina
✟359,531.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Of course. You, and anyone else, are perfectly free to hold whatever opinion you like, regardless of whether that opinion comports with reality or not. It just strikes me as strange when some people will proclaim "Trump is innocent until proven guilty!" and even extend that presumption after he has been proven guilty, but will not extend that same presumption for others. Accusations are not proof of guilt, after all.
I"m smelling a double standard here, with which the plurality of the electorate who put him in office seem to agree.
 
Upvote 0

Yarddog

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Jun 25, 2008
17,138
4,373
Louisville, Ky
✟1,036,796.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married

Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Guess who’s behind it

[Adam Schiff, Letitia James, and now Lisa Cook.]

What gets me, and should get you, is the flimsiness of these accusations despite how loudly they’ve been bruited about on the MAGA right as though they’re signals of profound moral turpitude on the part of the targets, and how they all originated in the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which is led by Trump acolyte and sycophant William J. Pulte, in private life a big homebuilder.

The important question, in the view of Adam Levitin of Georgetown Law, is who is driving these investigations and levying these accusations, and whether they reflect an “enemies list” Pulte has compiled on Donald Trump’s behalf. I asked the FHFA to respond to Levitin’s questions, but received no response.

...none of the public accusations from the FHFA specify what, if any, financial advantages were received by the targets.

And it’s unlikely that they’re the result of random audits of FHFA loans, as Levitin observed in relation to the Cook case.

“No one ever goes back and examines loan applications on performing loans for occupancy fraud; that would entail expenses for no benefit,” he wrote. “Instead, the only way anyone would have noticed a problem with Cook’s loan application is that Pulte, as head of FHFA, directed Fannie or Freddie to pull her application. That is unheard of.”

[In Schiff's case, we have an FHFA memo that says as much. The order came from one of the IGs Trump installed after firing most of them.]

The Fannie Mae memo says that the FHFA inspector general demanded “the loan file and any related investigative or quality control documentation, as well as all other loans associated with...Adam B. Schiff.”

The allegations against Schiff relate to his ownership of two homes, one in Burbank and the second in the Washington, D.C., area. But his dual ownership obviously was known to his mortgage lenders, and he has said that he took the homeowner’s property tax exemption only on the Burbank property.

[For James] In all but one of several documents, she stated that the niece would live in the house; according to her lawyer, on one form she said she’d be the occupant. But the bank could hardly have been misled, given the other documents. ... One form filed in 2001 regarding a Brooklyn brownstone bought for her family listed the property as having five units, but all the other pertinent forms stated correctly that it was four units. ... And in the 1983 purchase of house in Queens, New York, James’ father identified her as his spouse, not his daughter, on one form among others that identified her correctly.

Back in 2014, David H. Stevens, a former federal housing official then serving as CEO of the Mortgage Bankers Assn., told the Washington Post that the paper file for a standard mortgage had ballooned to 200-500 pages. “The likelihood of a minor defect is almost 100 percent,” he said. That reduces the significance of the errors Pulte claims to have found nearly to the vanishing point, especially given the paucity of evidence that Schiff, James or Cook got a financial benefit from any of them.

... the law is not concerned with insignificant trifles. In the Trump case, however, [the judge] declared that Trump and his fellow defendants saved tens of millions of dollars. “The frauds found here,” he wrote, “leap off the page and shock the conscience.”
Well, we know Trump was guilty of those charges and Trump has weaponized the DOJ, as an act of revenge, to try and get his enemies. If any of these Democrats are punished for these charges, Trump should faced the same punishment.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

Richard T

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2018
3,325
2,110
traveling Asia
✟139,914.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Read the article. :doh:
Only a court can determine that. The judge is reviewing now if Trump has cause to even fire the woman. What matters the most though is if Trump is trying to micromanage the Federal Reserve. That is a yes, and it can lead to millions more harm. Evidence come from Trump calling Powell names and advocating for a lower Federal Funds rate.
 
Upvote 0

A2SG

Gumby
Jun 17, 2008
9,976
3,903
Massachusetts
✟175,831.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I"m smelling a double standard here, with which the plurality of the electorate who put him in office seem to agree.
Yeah, I spelled out that double standard myself:

Thus the double standard. Letitia James is accused of fraud because she made a slight error on one line of a mortgage document so she must be guilty! But Trump having been proven guilty of fraud on multiple occasions is called "lawfare" and some continue to claim he was railroaded.

There is a difference between being accused and having been proved guilty, don't you think?

-- A2SG, can't speak to why anyone would vote for Donald Trump, but because he was proven guilty of fraud on multiple occasions seems a stretch....
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
43,433
46,516
Los Angeles Area
✟1,039,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)

Trump Is Accusing Foes With Multiple Mortgages of Fraud. Records Show 3 of His Cabinet Members Have Them.

Real estate experts say claiming primary residences on different mortgages at the same time is often legal and rarely prosecuted.

But if administration officials continue the campaign, mortgage records show there’s another place they could look: Trump’s own Cabinet.

Underscoring how common the practice is, ProPublica found that at least three of Trump’s Cabinet members call multiple homes their primary residences on mortgages. We discovered the loans while examining financial disclosure forms, county real estate records and publicly available mortgage data provided by Hunterbrook Media.

Labor Secretary Lori Chavez-DeRemer entered into two primary-residence mortgages in quick succession, including for a second home near a country club in Arizona, where she’s known to vacation. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy has primary-residence mortgages in New Jersey and Washington, D.C. Lee Zeldin, the Environmental Protection Agency administrator, has one primary-residence mortgage in Long Island and another in Washington, D.C., according to loan records.

In a flurry of interviews and rapid-fire posts on X, Bill Pulte, the Federal Housing Finance Agency director, has led the charge in accusing Trump opponents of mortgage fraud. “If somebody is claiming two primary residences, that is not appropriate, and we will refer it for criminal investigation,” Pulte said last month.
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
43,433
46,516
Los Angeles Area
✟1,039,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)

The ‘bizarre’ referral of the US housing finance agency chief to oust Lisa Cook

Former officials and experts say Bill Pulte’s request for inquiry into Fed governor’s alleged fraud is ‘unusual’

“It’s very bizarre for Pulte to be the one making a criminal referral himself and it’s not coming from the IG’s office,” said Janell Byrd-Chichester, a former chief of staff at FHFA. “If we thought there might be criminal activity, that would go to the IG for review and a determination and the IG would be making any referral, not the agency.”

Three other former officials across the inspector general’s office and FHFA said Pulte’s involvement was unusual.

While the FHFA inspector general would take referrals from FHFA, their investigations were typically walled off from FHFA, former officials said. The separation helped protect the privacy of borrowers and their sensitive mortgage information. The inspector general’s office would typically only pursue cases that resulted in substantial losses to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, government-sponsored enterprises that are regulated by FHFA.

Pulte has refused to say why his agency started its inquiry into Cook. There is widespread belief that the decision was politically motivated because Trump wants to remove her from the Federal Reserve board in order to stack it with his appointees.

[Lawfare!]

Furthermore, Pulte had referred Cook for a criminal inquiry without presenting bona fide evidence of a crime.

“If Cook broke her promise about property use (and that isn’t clear), all that shows is a breach of contract,” Levitin wrote in a separate blog post in August. “For it to be fraud, she would have to have never intended to perform the promise in the first place. Pulte has no evidence whatsoever about Cook’s intent at the time she took out the mortgage. He hasn’t even shown a breach of contract, much less common law fraud, not to speak of a federal criminal law violation.”
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
43,433
46,516
Los Angeles Area
✟1,039,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)

‘He’s a nut’: (some) Hill Republicans sour on Trump housing official Bill Pulte

Republican lawmakers privately say they are fed up with the outspoken Federal Housing Finance Agency director.

“The guy’s just a little too big for his britches,” said a second GOP lawmaker, who sits on the House Financial Services Committee, which oversees housing policy and the FHFA. “I’ve got great respect for Bessent for taking him on.”

It also highlights the support Bessent holds from rank-and-file Hill Republicans who see him as a key stabilizing force on economic policy within the Trump administration. The Treasury secretary threatened to punch Pulte and sought to have him kicked out of a dinner last Wednesday after he learned the FHFA chief had been badmouthing him to Trump, POLITICO previously reported.

“I would have done the same,” a third House Republican lawmaker said.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0