Trump to sign executive order directing AG to prosecute flag desecration

[Tropical Wilds]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-sign-executive-order-directing-ag-prosecute-flag-desecration-2025-08-25/

The order instructs the attorney general to "vigorously prosecute" people who violate flag desecration laws and pursue litigation to clarify the scope of the First Amendment regarding the issue, the fact sheet said.


As a little backdrop...

There were a few rulings in the late 80s that ruled that federal flag protection laws were no-go. However, the EO "directs the attorney general to refer flag desecration cases to state or local authorities."

Currently, around 40 states still have flag desecration laws on the books (including a mixture of red and blue states).

For the various states that still have laws on their books, some only pertain to the US flag, others extend the protections to the Confederate flag, a few extend protections to their State flag and various "coats of arms" (didn't realize that was still a thing over here on the other side of the Atlantic), and some local ordinances extend protections to the city flag.



I can see this going one of two ways

1) a court battle

2) states and localities take a page out of Newsom's recent playbook, and fight fire with fire. (like what Newsom is doing with the gerrymandering...basically neutering overreach by cancelling it out)

A few blue cities a few years back made the Pride flag their official city flag, thereby adding protections to it, and exempting it from the laws/bans of their red state.

What that would look like in this case, is blue cities and blue states make their official flag something that symbolizes some sort of ideology or advocacy that republicans don't like (something like the pride flag or a planned parenthood logo, a picture Dylan Mulvaney...take your pick), and if a conservative were to deface or vandalize one, they would be prosecuted harshly by Trump's own EO.

So does that mean the people who wear the flag as a cape at the various Trump rallies will all be arrested for desecration?

What does Kristi Whitmer have to say about it?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So does that mean the people who wear the flag as a cape at the various Trump rallies will all be arrested for desecration?

If the blue states/areas want to effectively fight fire with fire and make the administration re-think these sorts of impulsive decisions... then yes.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I would be more concerned, about people burning any religions stiff. Than a flag. But I don't worship the flag. With saying that being said , it's very disrespectful to burn religions things. It's very disrespectful burning Flags , from America and different countries , State flags and even LGBT flags. I wish people would grow up. But I don't think a year in jail is the answer.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

If the blue states/areas want to effectively fight fire with fire and make the administration re-think these sorts of impulsive decisions... then yes.

I hope so as I think this Is just a way to target and arrest protesters and dissenters for baloney. Another ruse to punish the people who don’t like Trump.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I would be more concerned, about people burning any religions stiff. Than a flag. But I don't worship the flag. With saying that being said , it's very disrespectful to burn religions things. It's very disrespectful burning Flags , from America and different countries , State flags and even LGBT flags. I wish people would grow up. But I don't think a year in jail is the answer.

From a purely ideological perspective, people should be able to burn whatever iconography they want. (religious, political or otherwise)

It wouldn't be my go-to for a protest mechanism. To me, if a person has to scream and light something on fire, that's usually a sign that they don't have anything constructive to say, so they're going with a "hey look at me, I'm sticking it to the man!" approach.

But we can't throw people in jail just for being attention harlots or crybabies. ** I see where the CF software decided to make a "creative edit" to one of the words in that sentence lol. "attention harlots" just doesn't hit the same... that's a shame.



I'd be more concerned about the public safety implications of the approach than I would be about the symbolic nature of the act.

I've seen enough of the "protestor self-own" videos where someone gets a little to generous with the lighter fluid and gives themselves second degree burns to know it's probably not the best idea from a safety perspective.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

From a purely ideological perspective, people should be able to burn whatever iconography they want. (religious, political or otherwise)

It wouldn't be my go-to for a protest mechanism. To me, if a person has to scream and light something on fire, that's usually a sign that they don't have anything constructive to say, so they're going with a "hey look at me, I'm sticking it to the man!" approach.

But we can't throw people in jail just for being attention harlots or crybabies. ** I see where the CF software decided to make a "creative edit" to one of the words in that sentence lol. "attention harlots" just doesn't hit the same... that's a shame.



I'd be more concerned about the public safety implications of the approach than I would be about the symbolic nature of the act.

I've seen enough of the "protestor self-own" videos where someone gets a little to generous with the lighter fluid and gives themselves second degree burns to know it's probably not the best idea from a safety perspective.

Attention harlots kinda slaps honestly, lol.

 

[Bradskii]

I don't get the US fixation with their flag. Down here overt patriotism is looked upon as a little suspicious. We're all quite proud of our country and its values but you won't find people flying the flag outside their homes as you do in the US. I know of one house a few klicks away that does, but it's noticeable because it's an exception. I've travelled a lot through the US and you see it everywhere. Come to think about it, I can't recall it being usual in any country I've ever been to.

In the same way, the pledge of allegiance must seem entirely natural to an American. But to Australians (well, this Australian anyway) it seems a little...odd. The only time anyone does it down here is if you are an immigrant and you become a citizen. Back when I did it you had to do it 'Under God' and pledge allegiance to the queen into the bargain. Well, I couldn't do it 'under God' and I wouldn't do it to the queen, so I had to wait a few years until they changed the wording and took the queen out and left it to you whether to include a deity of your choice or not.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I don't get the US fixation with their flag. Down here overt patriotism is looked upon as a little suspicious. We're all quite proud of our country and its values but you won't find people flying the flag outside their homes as you do in the US. I know of one house a few klicks away that does, but it's noticeable because it's an exception. I've travelled a lot through the US and you see it everywhere. Come to think about it, I can't recall it being usual in any country I've ever been to.

In the same way, the pledge of allegiance must seem entirely natural to an American. But to Australians (well, this Australian anyway) it seems a little...odd. The only time anyone does it down here is if you are an immigrant and you become a citizen. Back when I did it you had to do it 'Under God' and pledge allegiance to the queen into the bargain. Well, I couldn't do it 'under God' and I wouldn't do it to the queen, so I had to wait a few years until they changed the wording and took the queen out and left it to you whether to include a deity of your choice or not.

Americans have a lot to be proud of, and for good reason. I am sure Australians have accomplishments they can look to, but I don't recall any Australian Lee Greenwood's singing "I am proud to be an Australian, because at least I know...."?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I don't get the US fixation with their flag. Down here overt patriotism is looked upon as a little suspicious. We're all quite proud of our country and its values but you won't find people flying the flag outside their homes as you do in the US.

It's actually a North America (continent) thing...

When I go up to the cabin in Ontario, almost every house in the area has a Canadian Flag flying out front.
(in fact, I'd say it's probably more prevalent in Canada than it is in the US at least based on my own observations)

When I was in Mexico, I saw the several down there as well.


For some of it, I'd attribute it to the difference between a country founded on ideas/values, vs. countries founded upon an ethnic identity (or other circumstances)

 

[Bradskii]

Americans have a lot to be proud of, and for good reason. I am sure Australians have accomplishments they can look to, but I don't recall any Australian Lee Greenwood's singing "I am proud to be an Australian, because at least I know...."?

Oh, good Lord. Too saccharine...

I guess this would be our equivalent:

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Oh, good Lord. Too saccharine...

I guess this would be our equivalent:

There's also this:

 

[RDKirk]

I don't get the US fixation with their flag. Down here overt patriotism is looked upon as a little suspicious. We're all quite proud of our country and its values but you won't find people flying the flag outside their homes as you do in the US. I know of one house a few klicks away that does, but it's noticeable because it's an exception. I've travelled a lot through the US and you see it everywhere. Come to think about it, I can't recall it being usual in any country I've ever been to.

I see an awful lot of maple leaves scattered across Canada and Union Jacks in Britain.

In the same way, the pledge of allegiance must seem entirely natural to an American. But to Australians (well, this Australian anyway) it seems a little...odd. The only time anyone does it down here is if you are an immigrant and you become a citizen. Back when I did it you had to do it 'Under God' and pledge allegiance to the queen into the bargain. Well, I couldn't do it 'under God' and I wouldn't do it to the queen, so I had to wait a few years until they changed the wording and took the queen out and left it to you whether to include a deity of your choice or not.

Frankly, I can't recall having said the Pledge of Allegiance since elementary school. That would be the early 60s. We never even said it as part of military protocol.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I see an awful lot of maple leaves scattered across Canada and Union Jacks in Britain.

Wandering about Europe, I found Switzerland and Friesland to be quite fond of their flags. None other stuck out.

Frankly, I can't recall having said the Pledge of Allegiance since elementary school. That would be the early 60s. We never even said it as part of military protocol.

We used to say it regularly at the first school I went to, but when we moved half-way through 3rd grade, I don't remember saying it again.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't get the US fixation with their flag. Down here overt patriotism is looked upon as a little suspicious. We're all quite proud of our country and its values but you won't find people flying the flag outside their homes as you do in the US. I know of one house a few klicks away that does, but it's noticeable because it's an exception. I've travelled a lot through the US and you see it everywhere. Come to think about it, I can't recall it being usual in any country I've ever been to.

In the same way, the pledge of allegiance must seem entirely natural to an American. But to Australians (well, this Australian anyway) it seems a little...odd. The only time anyone does it down here is if you are an immigrant and you become a citizen. Back when I did it you had to do it 'Under God' and pledge allegiance to the queen into the bargain. Well, I couldn't do it 'under God' and I wouldn't do it to the queen, so I had to wait a few years until they changed the wording and took the queen out and left it to you whether to include a deity of your choice or not.

"Nationalist education" is alive and well in America's public schools, where national symbols like the flag, the Constitution, are imbued with mythical, symbolic weight. Whereas Britain has more historical memory of the results of nationalism rooted in myth: bombed cities, destroyed lives, and collective struggle of resistance.

English patriotism tends to be more rooted in a sense of place, relatively stable cultural institutions (especially before the Thatcher-Blair revolutions) and common life, and doesn't require the same amount of gloss. There are symbols of course, but there's also a sense of distance from them that you don't get in American culture. Perhaps due to the weight of a longer historical memory that's full of wrestling with ambiguity and complexity in a way that America's more ideological founding myths can't assimilate (and still hasn't).

In Australia, the differences are even more stark, I would imagine.

 

[Gene2memE]

As an Australian who has spent about 6 months of my life in the US, I must admit to finding the cultural importance of 'Old Glory' as somewhat odd.

I once had to get the transfer bus between LaGuardia and JFK airports. I started counting the number of US flags I saw. I stopped about 20 or 30 minutes in. Once I'd got to 1,000...

I've visited about 60 countries at last count. The only place I can recall that had a similar level of pride in their flag was Denmark. Even then, I was there in 2018 and the World Cup was in full swing at the time. And, I understand that displaying the flag there is less of a nationalist/patriotic thing but more of a byproduct of some old laws and traditions.

 

[Bradskii]

There's also this:

The guy on the right wrote it.

 

[durangodawood]

There's also this:

Oh my gosh. My parents used to live in the flat above (or below) theirs in London in the 60s.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Oh, good Lord. Too saccharine...

I guess this would be our equivalent:

"
We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving
There's a chance we're taking
We're taking our own lives
It's true we'll make a brighter day
Just you and me"

 

[Bradskii]

I see an awful lot of maple leaves scattered across Canada and Union Jacks in Britain.

I was in Canada for 3 weeks last year. Yeah, there were a few I noticed. But not to the extent that I'd seen in the US. And Union flags in the UK? In my thirty years there I really can't recall seeing a private residence flying it. That said, there seems to have been quite a recent upsurge in flag hoisting:

The questions about St George's and union jack flags lining English streets

With St George's and union jack flags appearing on many lampposts, we visit the epicentre of the phenomenon to find out why.

www.bbc.com

'"Operation Raise the Colours" is also the name of another group that has encouraged people to put up flags and is alleged to have accepted a donation from the far-right organisation Britain First, The Times reported. According to the research group Hope Not Hate, Operation Raise the Colours was co-founded by Andrew Currien, otherwise known as Andy Saxon, who has allegedly had links with the English Defence League and Britain First. The group denies it is a far-right organisation.'

Both groups are most definitely far right. So quite a few people are concerned about what the flags are representing.

 

[BCP1928]

Who cares about what Garrison Keillor thinks?

Nobody really, but it was a witty line.

Unless you are also implying that wearing the pride flag during a gay parade should be outlawed too?

"Wrapping himself in the flag" (which is a well known idiom) carries a negative connotation, suggesting that a person is using patriotism as a false pretense to hide selfish or dishonest motives. No literal wrapping in flag material was implied.