How Might Anti-Christ Arrive?

[Jamdoc]

Yes, let's listen to Jesus. He said at the beginning of acts that inquiries of this nature are not for us to know.

we are not the first century Apostles.

We're in a generation that has seen the fig tree bring forth new leaves.
There is a difference.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

we are not the first century Apostles.

We're in a generation that has seen the fig tree bring forth new leaves.
There is a difference.

This may have been why Jesus implied He might not find faith when He returned.

 

[JulieB67]

Indeed, but Daniel was a prophecy told further back, so it has less perspective than Revelation.

You stated that Daniel has been fulfilled and that verse proves that it has not been completely fulfilled.

Some of Daniel in many ways is a blueprint of Revelation.

When were these verses fulfilled?

Daniel 7:9 "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."

Daniel 7:10 "A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."

Daniel 7:14 "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You stated that Daniel has been fulfilled and that verse proves that it has not been completely fulfilled.

Daniel in many ways is a blueprint of Revelation.

When were these verses fulfilled?

Daniel 7:9 "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."

Daniel 7:10 "A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."

Daniel 7:14 "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

I corrected myself and you continue to attack a strawman. Not my fault.

 

[Jamdoc]

This may have been why Jesus implied He might not find faith when He returned.

You might want to take context of that verse into mind: Saying it's because people don't believe Daniel is a preterist book is certainly not its point.

Luke 18:

1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.

So first, the point of the Parable: That you should continue praying even when it seems like your prayers are not heard or answered when in duress, particularly, under persecution from an adversary. This widow was under duress, and she sought the judge's help, over and over and over.
Until he finally acquiesced and helped her.

Now see how the Lord applies this parable:

6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

That before Jesus comes, His people will be under duress, under tribulation, and they will pray, and pray and pray, but along the way, some will not be patient, and will fall away (or be martyred)

We see Him go through this concept in the Olivet discourse in Matthew 24 and 25:

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

People will lose faith over time.

He shows it in a parable too

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

People lose patience, and fall away.

Paul expresses the same
2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

1 Timothy 4

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

People lose faith during long stretches of hard times, especially persecution.
That is why the Lord muses about finding faith on the Earth when He returns, because He knows many will fall away when the times get really tough. Especially during the 70th week of Daniel.

It has nothing to do with people not agreeing with you that Daniel is history rather than prophecy.
Especially when He himself said that people in the future would see the Abomination of Desolation from Daniel 8, 9, 11, and 12. How that was supposed to be History .. did Jesus get it wrong, did Jesus interpret Daniel incorrectly and it was all in His past?
I don't think so, not when He quotes it.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

The thing that I wonder is in the Chapter of Revelation preceding the arrival of the AntiChrist the devil or "Dragon: is cast out of the heavenly realm.

Rev 12:9-10 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

He is then seen alongside the beast, receiving worship on earth.

Rev 13:4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"


However this happens, Satan will be manifest on the earth. I personally wonder whether he will deceive the nations by stating he is an alien from outer space. Sound's comical, but what better deception to use. Strange creatures arriving to earth from space.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You might want to take context of that verse into mind: Saying it's because people don't believe Daniel is a preterist book is certainly not its point.

Luke 18:

So first, the point of the Parable: That you should continue praying even when it seems like your prayers are not heard or answered when in duress, particularly, under persecution from an adversary. This widow was under duress, and she sought the judge's help, over and over and over.
Until he finally acquiesced and helped her.

Now see how the Lord applies this parable:

That before Jesus comes, His people will be under duress, under tribulation, and they will pray, and pray and pray, but along the way, some will not be patient, and will fall away (or be martyred)

We see Him go through this concept in the Olivet discourse in Matthew 24 and 25:

People will lose faith over time.

He shows it in a parable too

People lose patience, and fall away.

Paul expresses the same
2 Thessalonians 2


1 Timothy 4

People lose faith during long stretches of hard times, especially persecution.
That is why the Lord muses about finding faith on the Earth when He returns, because He knows many will fall away when the times get really tough. Especially during the 70th week of Daniel.

It has nothing to do with people not agreeing with you that Daniel is history rather than prophecy.
Especially when He himself said that people in the future would see the Abomination of Desolation from Daniel 8, 9, 11, and 12. How that was supposed to be History .. did Jesus get it wrong, did Jesus interpret Daniel incorrectly and it was all in His past?
I don't think so, not when He quotes it.

Thanks for all of that. This is such a topic that each person has their own view and whatever counter-evidence is provided, it just strengthens what they think about it.

This is because it is not for us to know the times and seasons that are in the Father's hand.

 

[Jamdoc]

Thanks for all of that. This is such a topic that each person has their own view and whatever counter-evidence is provided, it just strengthens what they think about it.

This is because it is not for us to know the times and seasons that are in the Father's hand.

True, we aren't to know WHEN. Only the Father knows the WHEN exactly but we were given a roadmap of WHAT will happen.

That is why I argue for Daniel being prophecy rather than history, because it gives us a road map from which to watch, to know how things progress, so that we can rely on the word of God as our guidance rather than our own imaginations and speculation.

This thread asks a question of how might something we know is going to happen happen. I'm answering that Daniel gives us some details in how, because that's a profitable approach, to look to the bible rather than just speculate.
We can still speculate some with some humility but if we have scripture that gives us details, we should use it.

 

[JulieB67]

I corrected myself and you continue to attack a strawman. Not my fault.

Sorry, they were honest questions. I really wanted to know when you thought those verses had been fulfilled because I just don't see it. I'll move on...

 

[Gregory Thompson]

True, we aren't to know WHEN. Only the Father knows the WHEN exactly but we were given a roadmap of WHAT will happen.

That is why I argue for Daniel being prophecy rather than history, because it gives us a road map from which to watch, to know how things progress, so that we can rely on the word of God as our guidance rather than our own imaginations and speculation.

This thread asks a question of how might something we know is going to happen happen. I'm answering that Daniel gives us some details in how, because that's a profitable approach, to look to the bible rather than just speculate.
We can still speculate some with some humility but if we have scripture that gives us details, we should use it.

Knowing the signs is fine, watching for the signs is following the instructions.

One of the things we are not privy to know is when God will re-establish Israel. However, this is a crux of a lot of Eschatologies. It seems that the church into these theologies is ignoring the instructions on how to use the Holy Spirit given to us. That being, spreading the gospel to the ends of the earth.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Sorry, they were honest questions. I really wanted to know when you thought those verses had been fulfilled because I just don't see it. I'll move on...

Much appreciated, since I didn't say or mean that in particular I wouldn't know what to tell you.

In terms of eschatology, I am a realist. People talk about this seal the other seal and some holy otter and I just note that the sixth seal reveals God up in the Sky and people just act like the Mountain of God with Moses and are afraid they will die and try to hide themselves.

Since God is not visible in the Sky, most of what people are talking about is not realistic to believe.

 

[JulieB67]

Satan will be manifest on the earth

I think the deception is that he will proclaim to be God/the messiah. Him and his angels will put on a show, the beast and false prophet all a part of that -with the one world government in place, etc. They will bring a sense of peace and safety only it is a false peace.

 

[Jamdoc]

Knowing the signs is fine, watching for the signs is following the instructions.

One of the things we are not privy to know is when God will re-establish Israel. However, this is a crux of a lot of Eschatologies. It seems that the church into these theologies is ignoring the instructions on how to use the Holy Spirit given to us. That being, spreading the gospel to the ends of the earth.

Well there's nothing in scripture about the Jews coming back into Israel apart from when God does it.

So about all we can do is, we see this happening, and God said it would happen, so we act in faith that God has done this because He said He would do it. What else can we do? Look to the Word to see what else happens in God's prophetic plan, and watch for those things. If those things don't happen, well then we misinterpreted the supposed signs.
But if we expect these things to happen because the Bible said they would happen, it strengthens our faith, and I believe we'll need all the strengthening and confirmation we can get.
That is why God gives prophecy, so that when we see the things happen, we know that God told us they'd happen, our God is real and true, and we can trust Him that everything He said would happen, and we can trust Him, even with our lives.
So studying and watching for prophecy, is about making sure that we have faith when Jesus returns.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Probably through the birth canal.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well there's nothing in scripture about the Jews coming back into Israel apart from when God does it.

So about all we can do is, we see this happening, and God said it would happen, so we act in faith that God has done this because He said He would do it. What else can we do? Look to the Word to see what else happens in God's prophetic plan, and watch for those things. If those things don't happen, well then we misinterpreted the supposed signs.
But if we expect these things to happen because the Bible said they would happen, it strengthens our faith, and I believe we'll need all the strengthening and confirmation we can get.
That is why God gives prophecy, so that when we see the things happen, we know that God told us they'd happen, our God is real and true, and we can trust Him that everything He said would happen, and we can trust Him, even with our lives.
So studying and watching for prophecy, is about making sure that we have faith when Jesus returns.

That sounds like agreement with what I said previously. However, this is a minority of discussions in this subforum.

 

[tranquil]

The thing that I wonder is in the Chapter of Revelation preceding the arrival of the AntiChrist the devil or "Dragon: is cast out of the heavenly realm.

Rev 12:9-10 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

He is then seen alongside the beast, receiving worship on earth.

Rev 13:4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"


However this happens, Satan will be manifest on the earth. I personally wonder whether he will deceive the nations by stating he is an alien from outer space. Sound's comical, but what better deception to use. Strange creatures arriving to earth from space.

When Revelation says, 'red dragon', it is in reference to the Hebrew 'fiery serpent' which is 'seraphim' (a type of angel). People see dragon and think some sort of lizard, but the main idea is that of an angel.

The 'angel' that is coming down and deceiving people is... the Revelation 10 Mighty Angel who is swearing an oath to heaven. Swearing an oath to heaven is a reference to 'confirming a covenant'.

It is this angel that is 'deceiving people'. The events of the first 5 trumpets are Daniel 9:26. Starting with the 6th Trumpet through Rev 9:13-21 which is the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem then the Dan 9:27 covenant is confirmed by the Rev 10 Mighty Angel which ends this particular instance of 'great tribulation' (which will last 30 days). Then after 1260 days of the 2 witnesses, this covenant is broken at the 7th Trumpet (giving us 1290 days between the abomination being in Jerusalem until being in Mystery Babylon / Shinar - Zech 5).

There are 2 'antichrists': the Assyrian & the 'angel of Tyre' (Ezekiel 28:14) (the Daniel 8 Little Horn & the Daniel 7 Little Horn respectively). The Assyrian is attacking Babylon & Jerusalem in Trumpets 1-5 + Rev 9:13-21 (this is Daniel 9:26's people of the prince to come destroy the city and sanctuary), then Tyre (the 'dragon') confirms the Dan 9:27 covenant and breaks it at the 7th Trumpet.

When he breaks it, then he hands it over to the Assyrian who will be 'proven right all along'. If the 'angel' is 'revealed to be an alien vampire', then the scenario could easily be that the mark of the beast is to prove that one is 'not an alien vampire'.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

When he breaks it, then he hands it over to the Assyrian who will be 'proven right all along'. If the 'angel' is 'revealed to be an alien vampire', then the scenario could easily be that the mark of the beast is to prove that one is 'not an alien vampire'.

Never heard the term "alien vampire", what is that referencing? Maybe you could start a post somewhere else to discuss.

 

[Dan Perez]

Yes, let's listen to Jesus. He said at the beginning of acts that inquiries of this nature are not for us to know.

And this what Paul has said in 2 Thess 2:1 Christ is COMING /. PAROUSIA first !

# 2. In verse 2 , Paul says , don't be Frightened. , neither by spirit nor by word as by us , nor by word nor by letter

as by us . that the Day of the LORD IS CLOSE at Hand .

# 3 No one should deceive you. in NOT / ME , IS A DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , MEANING NOTTTT. open way

because. EXCEPT. the DEPARTURE. ( MEANS THE BODY OF CHRIST. ). should come FIRST and the man of sin. should

be revealed. the son of Destruction

# 4 Verse. 4 , The one opposing and Exalting. over all things being called of God or subject of worship so that he as God. his to

sit down into the TEMPLE of God. ( we see that the Temple has been rebuilt. ). exhibiting himself that he is God !

# 5 Verse 5 , Do you not remember that , being yet with you , I spoke these thinks to you ??

# 6 Verse 6 ., And now we know the one Hindering in order for him to be revealed in his time !!

So read what Paul the apostle of the Gentles has to say about the Body of Christ. and we are in that time

Period Now !!

dan p

 

[Gregory Thompson]

And this what Paul has said in 2 Thess 2:1 Christ is COMING /. PAROUSIA first !

# 2. In verse 2 , Paul says , don't be Frightened. , neither by spirit nor by word as by us , nor by word nor by letter

as by us . that the Day of the LORD IS CLOSE at Hand .

# 3 No one should deceive you. in NOT / ME , IS A DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , MEANING NOTTTT. open way

because. EXCEPT. the DEPARTURE. ( MEANS THE BODY OF CHRIST. ). should come FIRST and the man of sin. should

be revealed. the son of Destruction

# 4 Verse. 4 , The one opposing and Exalting. over all things being called of God or subject of worship so that he as God. his to

sit down into the TEMPLE of God. ( we see that the Temple has been rebuilt. ). exhibiting himself that he is God !

# 5 Verse 5 , Do you not remember that , being yet with you , I spoke these thinks to you ??

# 6 Verse 6 ., And now we know the one Hindering in order for him to be revealed in his time !!

So read what Paul the apostle of the Gentles has to say about the Body of Christ. and we are in that time

Period Now !!

dan p

It's hard to read your posts. Thanks for responding.