criminal justice reform

[Hans Blaster]

Pleading guilty to the original charges is not the same as pleading guilty to the different, lesser charges.

Didn't say it was. There is a lot of variation (and local practice) and in many cases the "lesser" charges were already there. Plead guilty to 3rd degree murder, get the 1st and 2nd degree charges dismissed. That sort of thing. Other times they recharge with only the lesser charge if it wasn't already charged.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Why not have bail like in the UK (doesn't cost anything)?

some states /areas do but cash bail is designed to ensure people show up to court. If they pay bail and make all of their appearances they get their money back. If they use a bail bondsman they will not get their money back, but they will only pay between 5-15% of the total amount which of course can save 1000s or even 10,000s of dollars.

 

[Larniavc]

some states /areas do but cash bail is designed to ensure people show up to court. If they pay bail and make all of their appearances they get their money back. If they use a bail bondsman they will not get their money back, but they will only pay between 5-15% of the total amount which of course can save 1000s or even 10,000s of dollars.

Seems to be a system that favours the rich.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Seems to be a system that favours the rich.

It is but it is tricky becaue the role of bail and bail conditions is to ensure one has skin in the game to appear in court ( along of course with public safety but the cash/property bail system is designed to motivate people to face the music. Means to pay is sometimes considered when detrmining bail. Other factors along with having a private lawyer ( which can also cost 1000s but factors unreleated to how much money one has can include the criminal record ( or lack thereof the cleaner the record the higher the chance for low or no bail Of course what the crime is non-violent crimes of course get lower bails and sometimes release without bail. another big one is ties to the community someone who has employment, a house, civic involvement in the community and/or has been a long term reseident is usually more likely to get more favorable bail/bail conditions than someone from out of town or someone new to a particular community.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So then, the system that has been in place all of our lifetimes, and our parents lifetimes, is unjust, broken ?

If you claim plea bargains are not just then that would be the conclusion drawn.

 

[dogs4thewin]

If that is the case, where is the recidivism rate the lowest ?

Well northern Europe as in Sweden, Denmark up that way have recidivism rates less than half of ours

 

[dogs4thewin]

Did you read about the lowest recidivism rates in the usa , being in the prisons (or other) that put all the prisoners to work gardening (in the prison/system) and when possible teaching them to garden, or alternate way teaching them to train assistive animals (usually dogs but might include cats and others) ?
There very well may be other points of interest also, like honest Judges, honest Jailers, and so on, or in other words some administrators who love the truth (contrary to most of the world).

yes, meanful work is part of what keeps the recidivism rate down, but education and also treating people as well gee humans is also part of the plan.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It appears that education causes many people to become criminals and to remain opposed to Jesus ?

Jesus is great, but being that we ( and most of the western world have freedom of relgion should not be taught as part of prison offered sure allowed yes, but not taught and enforced the same way that MEANINGFUL work and education be it a GED, skill and/or other degrees are.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Additionally treatment for addiction/mental illness needs to play a role.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The treatment that has worked for decades when permitted and used to effectively reduce or remove addictions
played a significant role whether voluntary or court-ordered. Very few are given access or ever even told about this.

The problem is that if people do not have accesss to it it will not work and funny enough you can get just about anything in prison.

 

[Larniavc]

ensure one has skin in the game to appear in court

That’s the thing though. In a just society with lower income inequality where even the lowest paid worker can afford a reasonable life style everyone already has skin in the game.

In a society where even having a job means poverty with little or no social mobility people have checked out of society because they never had skin in it.

Fix the problem, not the symptom.

 

[Larniavc]

funny enough you can get just about anything in prison.

Really? American prison are famous for being awful places with few resources for mental health. Half of them are privately owned for profit labour camps who send kickbacks to corrupt judges to keep a constant supply of new prisoners flowing in.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I guess this would go here.

What reforms should be made to the criminal justice system which is a BAD system.

Stop the militarization of our police departments.

INFORMATION:
Jewish Voice for Peace and Amnesty International

The United States started sending its police officers to Israel for training in the early 2000s, primarily after the September 11th attacks in 2001, with the first official training expeditions occurring in 2002.
Since then there has been a significant debate and concern regarding the impact of U.S. police training in Israel on police aggression and tactics in the United States.
Critics, including human rights organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace and Amnesty International, argue that these exchange programs contribute to the militarization of U.S. police forces and lead to an increase in aggressive policing, racial profiling, and suppression of dissent. They point to several alleged aspects of Israeli security practices that they believe are problematic when adopted by U.S. law enforcement:

* Racial Profiling and Surveillance: Critics suggest that U.S. police learn and adopt techniques of mass surveillance and racial profiling that are standard in Israel's security approach, but which may violate civil liberties in the U.S.
* Crowd Control and Suppression of Protests: There are claims that U.S. officers are exposed to tactics for controlling and dispersing protests that are considered aggressive or excessive, including the use of "less-lethal" munitions and specific restraint techniques.
* "Us vs. Them" Mentality: Some argue that the training reinforces a "national security" narrative that views certain communities or protests as threats, fostering an "us against them" mentality in policing.
* Lack of Constitutional Constraints: A key concern is that Israeli security forces operate under different legal frameworks than U.S. police and are not bound by the same constitutional constraints, leading to the transfer of practices that may be illegal or unconstitutional in the U.S.

The discussion around these training programs remains highly contentious, with ongoing calls from some activists and human rights groups for them to be ended due to concerns about their impact on civil rights and police practices in the U.S.

MORE INFORMATION:

Deadly Exchange

Ending US-Israel Police Partnerships, Reclaiming Safety

deadlyexchange.org

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The point of this thread was actually ( and maybe I should have made myself clearer, but to fix the current system ( in particular as it releates to the VERY high recidivism rates.

Prisons aim to rehabilitate but the environment can inadvertently lead to some incarcerated individuals to recidivism by learning more about criminal acts. Prioritizing research into this problem and finding solutions would be good.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That’s the thing though. In a just society with lower income inequality where even the lowest paid worker can afford a reasonable life style everyone already has skin in the game.

In a society where even having a job means poverty with little or no social mobility people have checked out of society because they never had skin in it.

Fix the problem, not the symptom.

skin in the game meaning money on the line if they do not show up. That is why in some areas the people that are the most trustworthy and/or have a private lawyer can sometimes get out without paying bail.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Really? American prison are famous for being awful places with few resources for mental health. Half of them are privately owned for profit labour camps who send kickbacks to corrupt judges to keep a constant supply of new prisoners flowing in.

no, I meant anything drug wise cell phones ( things that are not supposed to have in prison ( far from help.

 

[Larniavc]

skin in the game meaning money on the line if they do not show up. That is why in some areas the people that are the most trustworthy and/or have a private lawyer can sometimes get out without paying bail.

So it specifically favours rich people. That’s awful.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So it specifically favours rich people. That’s awful.

like I said yes it does and I would support something different the question is what because part of bail is to ensure people will come back to face the music. This is why even if the person does not have a whole lot of money and qualfies for a public defender the more the person has ties to the commuity the more likely they are to get a lower bail on the same charges. For example, if someone moved to an area last year or has swiched appartments several times that person is likely to get a higher bail than someone who has lived in the area for years or decades has local employment/family ECT because they are seen as a much lesser flight risk than someone who is new to the community and moves a lot

 

[Larniavc]

bail is to ensure people will come back to face the music.

That was my point about skin in the game. A person who has a job, a supportive social network and prospects isn’t going to give all that up and live a life on the lamb.

But if you are disenfranchised by society that is poorly equipped for anyone not born into a privileged position (good education, stable upbringing etc) it’s very different.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That was my point about skin in the game. A person who has a job, a supportive social network and prospects isn’t going to give all that up and live a life on the lamb.

But if you are disenfranchised by society that is poorly equipped for anyone not born into a privileged position (good education, stable upbringing etc) it’s very different.

that is why te person that has more i the community can sometimes (particularly if they have a good lawyer get lesser bail.