Angels

[Aseyesee]

God surely reveals Himself in Scriptures and His creation, and we should always see ourselves within His realm and love. I have come across the idea of “It shouldn't be any stranger thing to us than being equal with God ...,” but it is topic worth avoiding. You can really get in the weeds and instigate all sorts of misunderstandings.

Yet ... This is the mind of Christ that Paul said to those who were yet carnal (in their thinking) had ... I have a hammer if you have a finger to show you that you are not (in that way) equal to God

To not let this mind be in you is tantamount to robbing God ...

 

[Jerry N.]

Yet ... This is the mind of Christ that Paul said to those who were yet carnal (in their thinking) had ... I have a hammer if you have a finger to show you that you are not (in that way) equal to God

To not let this mind be in you is tantamount to robbing God ...

I assume you are referring to 1:Cor. 2:12-13. It is not that we are exactly like Christ in our mind, but that the Holy Spirit teaches us. If the Holy Spirit is not in you, it is hard to understand Scripture or see the glory of God in creation. To go further than that, you might consider the teachings of Mormons. They have considered the topic much more than I have, and you might see some insights. (I’m not saying that they are correct, but they have interesting ideas). Personally, I am not willing to take it much further until I learn to deal with what I already know.

 

[Aseyesee]

I assume you are referring to 1:Cor. 2:12-13. It is not that we are exactly like Christ in our mind, but that the Holy Spirit teaches us. If the Holy Spirit is not in you, it is hard to understand Scripture or see the glory of God in creation. To go further than that, you might consider the teachings of Mormons. They have considered the topic much more than I have, and you might see some insights. (I’m not saying that they are correct, but they have interesting ideas). Personally, I am not willing to take it much further until I learn to deal with what I already know.

"And this will we do, if God permit."

I stay away from "waters of another" ...

 

[CoreyD]

I see the problem, and it is my mistake. I didn’t notice that Scriptures were required. I’m still learning my way around this forum,

It happens.
I learned to make it a habit to check what sub-forum I am about to post to, and then make sure to read the Statement of Purpose.

and I find angel stories interesting, so I made a poor assumption.

You and billions of other people.

The Scriptures I would have used are Hebrews 13:2, Acts 12:5-17, and Acts 8:26-31 which you mentioned.

These scriptures do not say God sends angels to you, me, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh. Joseph Smith, or @Aseyesee.
Why aren't you a LDS, then?, because Joseph smith was visited by God's angel with a message from Jesus Christ... so he claims.

Sometimes, when life is hard and faith is fading, stories about people, particularly children, seeing angels is a bit encouraging. It may not always be Scriptural in the strictest sense, but the stories give people hope that God is intervening in daily affairs.

Are you saying believing lies is okay so long as it is comforting... like when pastors tell parents whose child dies, their child is an angel in heaven?
That's not righteous, is it?

You wrote, “I hope you don't mind if I ask.

How will God make it clear to you?”

I can’t speak for anybody but myself, and God communicates to those who love Him in various ways. That is why I posted Mathew 7:9-11. In my case, I had a pretty good idea about what God wanted me to do, at least in the short term. However, I was comfortable in my present situation and put off making a decision. Then, I had a bad accident and lost everything. I recovered physically, but only one door opened for me, which is the one I should have used before.

Sorry about your accident. I'm glad you recovered.
Isn't Matthew 7:9-11 about prayer?

My main point is that God loves His children and finds ways to communicate or lead them.

God is love, yes. Why do you believe God "finds ways" to communicate or lead his children.
Are you saying that God has not sent Jesus to teach us about the father, and Jesus has not explained and shown how God communicates with and leads his children?

Can you please show me from the scriptures what ways God uses, that I have not referenced in this post, aside from prayer.

 

[CoreyD]

“And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground”

“Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.”

“And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, Art thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am.”

“And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.”

Caiaphas who spoke by the Holy Ghost was a messenger of God … which is the definition of an angel … he was (as Peter put it) an oracle (one who has an utterance … which is a message) of God, which Peter encouraged all (men/mankind) to speak this way.

Every Sunday the faithful attend churches to hear just this, when all along they have no need that any man do this for them (like Moses did for the children of Israel); John backing up the words of Jesus as to where the source of revelation comes up out of; but in all this, it still does not express my (if you want to call it) encounters I have had over the years, and what to me they both were and spoke to (not knowing (like Caiaphas) they had (and neither did they need to know) for it was waters out of my own cistern) ...

None of those scripture say, nor suggest that "angels can be people who are unaware of their role that they are playing".
Angels know why they are sent, and the mission they are on. Daniel 10:11-14; Genesis 19:1-3; Revelation 1:1

There is no scripture that say God will send angels to you, me, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh. or Joseph Smith.
Why aren't you a LDS, if you believe God sends angels to us?, because Joseph smith was visited by God's angel with a message from Jesus Christ, so to reject him is to reject Christ's message... Is that true?

 

[CoreyD]

God surely reveals Himself in Scriptures and His creation, and we should always see ourselves within His realm and love. I have come across the idea of “It shouldn't be any stranger thing to us than being equal with God ...,” but it is topic worth avoiding. You can really get in the weeds and instigate all sorts of misunderstandings.

When people "go beyond the things which are written", it leads to being "puffed up ". 1 Corinthians 4:6
This is a common failing in Christianity in this world. Most love it that way, because they get to exercise their "intellectual reasoning that is above average".

 

[Aseyesee]

None of those scripture say, nor suggest that "angels can be people who are unaware of their role that they are playing".
Angels know why they are sent, and the mission they are on. Daniel 10:11-14; Genesis 19:1-3; Revelation 1:1

There is no scripture that say God will send angels to you, me, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh. or Joseph Smith.
Why aren't you a LDS, if you believe God sends angels to us?, because Joseph smith was visited by God's angel with a message from Jesus Christ, so to reject him is to reject Christ's message... Is that true?

Did Caiphas believe Jesus was the christ ... the son of the living God, and understand he was the final passover sacrifice, the fulfillment of what all the other Passover's spoke to? Was he aware the Spirit of God was speaking through him?

 

[CoreyD]

Did Caiphas believe Jesus was the christ ... the son of the living God, and understand he was the final passover sacrifice, the fulfillment of what all the other Passover's spoke to? Was he aware the Spirit of God was speaking through him?

What does that have to do with you? Also, is that a question you want me to answer?
When will you answer any of the questions I asked you.

Peter raised a dead woman. Can you?
Does the fact that God dealt with his servants in a particular way mean that he deals with you in that way? No.
Can you provide one scripture that says he does? More than three pages have been passed, and you haven't... you can't.

 

[honey badger]

Did Caiphas believe Jesus was the christ ... the son of the living God, and understand he was the final passover sacrifice, the fulfillment of what all the other Passover's spoke to? Was he aware the Spirit of God was speaking through him?

the angel, Balaam and his donkey is interesting because the donkey saw the angel when Balaam could not and yet it does not appear a strange thing to Balaam that his donkey spoke to him ...

 

[Jerry N.]

It happens.
I learned to make it a habit to check what sub-forum I am about to post to, and then make sure to read the Statement of Purpose.


You and billions of other people.


These scriptures do not say God sends angels to you, me, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh. Joseph Smith, or @Aseyesee.
Why aren't you a LDS, then?, because Joseph smith was visited by God's angel with a message from Jesus Christ... so he claims.


Are you saying believing lies is okay so long as it is comforting... like when pastors tell parents whose child dies, their child is an angel in heaven?
That's not righteous, is it?


Sorry about your accident. I'm glad you recovered.
Isn't Matthew 7:9-11 about prayer?


God is love, yes. Why do you believe God "finds ways" to communicate or lead his children.
Are you saying that God has not sent Jesus to teach us about the father, and Jesus has not explained and shown how God communicates with and leads his children?

Can you please show me from the scriptures what ways God uses, that I have not referenced in this post, aside from prayer.

You wrote (I’m having trouble with the quote function.):

“These scriptures do not say God sends angels to you, me, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh. Joseph Smith, or @Aseyesee.

Why aren't you a LDS, then?, because Joseph smith was visited by God's angel with a message from Jesus Christ... so he claims.”

The verses point out that God has sent angels to His followers in New Testament times. Unfortunately, nothing has been written in Scripture after John. The fact that some have lied or been deceived about being visited by angels doesn’t mean that angels haven’t visited others. If an “angel” visits somebody and gives a message, one should compare the message to Scripture, which the people you mentioned did not do.

You wrote:

“Are you saying believing lies is okay so long as it is comforting... like when pastors tell parents whose child dies, their child is an angel in heaven?

That's not righteous, is it?”

I’m not saying that it is “okay so long as it is comforting,” and I would never say that everyone who says they have been visited by angels is a liar. People like reassurance that God still interacts with individuals in the here and now. It is not so much believing everybody, but it is wondering what happened and hoping it was God’s doing. One should not be gullible or dismissively skeptical. Take a look around and see the great diversity in God’s creation on earth. How is it not possible that the spiritual realm is equally diverse?

Matthew 7:9-11 is indeed about prayer.
You wrote:

“God is love, yes. Why do you believe God "finds ways" to communicate or lead his children.

Are you saying that God has not sent Jesus to teach us about the father, and Jesus has not explained and shown how God communicates with and leads his children?”

That is a bit ingenuous. Of course, I believe God sent his Son to teach us about the Father. God is my Father and I ask Him in prayer, and He often answers.

Your wrote:

“Can you please show me from the scriptures what ways God uses, that I have not referenced in this post, aside from prayer.”

I’m not sure what you are implying, unless you think God never communicates with us except through Scripture. If I ask God to heal my friend, and my friend gets better, hasn’t God communicated that He answered my prayer?

 

[Aseyesee]

the angel, Balaam and his donkey is interesting because the donkey saw the angel when Balaam could not and yet it does not appear a strange thing to Balaam that his donkey spoke to him ...

... and then proceeds to have a conversation with his ass (pun intended) like it was normal ...

I love this picture of the process that the ass nor Balaam knew they were a picture of ...

 

[honey badger]

... and then proceeds to have a conversation with his ass (pun intended) like it was normal ...

I love this picture of the process that the ass nor Balaam knew they were a picture of ...

yes we see ourselves as the tail when we are the head ...

 

[Aseyesee]

What does that have to do with you? Also, is that a question you want me to answer?
When will you answer any of the questions I asked you.

Peter raised a dead woman. Can you?
Does the fact that God dealt with his servants in a particular way mean that he deals with you in that way? No.
Can you provide one scripture that says he does? More than three pages have been passed, and you haven't... you can't.

It has nothing to do with me, but everything to do with whether Caiaphas understood what he was saying, let alone those who were listening to the words he spoke by the Spirit.

The Scripture doesn’t say one way or the other whether those listening understood what was said by God/Caiaphas; but even Elijah thought he was alone, like Simeon who knew the Christ would come in his lifetime, as well as Anna, and this before John the Baptist began preaching in the wilderness, or before a disciple was ever chosen ...

People are touched in different ways (according to the increase of Christ in them) or where they are at in the journey inwards) when they hear a word spoken from their local church (which 95% of the one's speaking (in lieu of God) have no clue to what their words mean to those who are listening to them), even though this is not by any means held to that ... though the scripture does not delve into this much (in a right out in the open fashion) … a voice comes from heaven , and the only one stated as recognizing whose voice it was is Jesus, even though he said it was for their sakes that it came … and we know the devil snatches the word away, when there is no understanding of the word …

Perception is everything ...

Comparing yourself with others is a carnal attribute … holding one above the other is as well, to the extent that Christ is included in this (for reason of the carnal minds of those the writer was addressing)… we are all one or we are not, there is no middle ground …

The story of Cornelius’s conversion depicts the whole gambit … as far as Peter was concerned (even after a vision (thrice) the gentiles were not in the picture (but thru a vision, a seed was planted), even though the scriptures (OT) state this as fact, and which (again) was known of Simeon, (most likely while Peter was still on his mother’s breast) … Peter's understanding was solidified by God in him with his encounter with a gentile (who was visited by an angel, who was not an apostle/disciple, and a gentile to boot ...) all to which Cornelius was not privy to before the arrival of Peter. This situation spoke to Peter, confirming what he was beginning by the communication of revelation to understand ...

... more then three pages ...

 

[CoreyD]

You wrote (I’m having trouble with the quote function.):

Try the Reply button instead.

The verses point out that God has sent angels to His followers in New Testament times. Unfortunately, nothing has been written in Scripture after John.

The Revelation to John was the completion of scripture. So, nothing will be written after.
Neither the Book of Mormon, nor the Quran can be said to be inspired of God.

So, why do you not accept these, since you believe God sends angels to people today, since God has sent angels to His followers in New Testament times?

The fact that some have lied or been deceived about being visited by angels doesn’t mean that angels haven’t visited others. If an “angel” visits somebody and gives a message, one should compare the message to Scripture, which the people you mentioned did not do.

Are you saying that Latter Day Saints have not compared the message to Scripture?
What makes a person who thinks God sent an angel to them differ from someone that claims God sent an angel to them?
They both are the same.
Neither can show or demonstrate that they are not false prophets.

The scriptures were completed with the message given to John, so a person who thinks that God communicates with them, by angels is simply believing something that is not written, and is going beyond what is written.
What we see written is that Jesus communicates with his followers by holy spirit. John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:13

Interesting that the last writer of the scriptures should give us that information.
In fact, his later letters, stated this fact even more clearly.
1 John 2:26, 27
These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

So, those who need angels to teach them, must not have that anointing.
Hence, it is fitting that people see those claiming to have been visited by an angel of God, as false prophets.
It really does not matter, then, to Jesus followers, or Jesus, who believes they have been visited by an angel of God.

I’m not saying that it is “okay so long as it is comforting,” and I would never say that everyone who says they have been visited by angels is a liar.

Of course they are not lying.
They have been visited by angels.
I'm saying they are not God's angels that visited them.
You do know God's angels are not the only angels, don't you?

I've been saying that all along... if you read my posts.

People like reassurance that God still interacts with individuals in the here and now. It is not so much believing everybody, but it is wondering what happened and hoping it was God’s doing. One should not be gullible or dismissively skeptical. Take a look around and see the great diversity in God’s creation on earth. How is it not possible that the spiritual realm is equally diverse?

You obviously are sincere about how you feel about this, but I want to encourage you to give serious thought to reconsidering your view on this Jerry.

We know from scriptures that Satan misleads many... even more so, now that he and his angels are living ight here on earth... up close and personal. Revelation 12:9, 12
We know from scriptures that people will believe the lie, and turn to false stories... listening to angels of Satan. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12; 2 Timothy 4:4; 1 Timothy 4:1

You seem to be suggesting that one should go by gut feeling or supposition, instead of knowing what the scriptures precisely say about God communicating with his followers at this time.
Are you of the view that Satan will not tell you what is in scripture, or tell you something that is true, till he's got you by the neck.... only he won't squeeze till he's ready?

Satan quoted scripture to Jesus Matthew 4:6, for one to think they can check scripture to find out if it was Satan's angel or God's that spoke to them, one would be underestimating Satan.
The scriptures used the expression, "ignorant of Satan's schemes, (or designs)". 2 Corinthians 2:11

The Bible says Satan has blinded people so that they do not see the truth. 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4
So, it is clear many don't understand what it means to transform himself into an angel of light.
You don't think that's talking about a physical change, do you?

I’m not sure what you are implying, unless you think God never communicates with us except through Scripture.

I hope you did not get that idea.
If you did, may I suggest you go back and read my posts.

If I ask God to heal my friend, and my friend gets better, hasn’t God communicated that He answered my prayer?

An answer to our prayer is a response more so than communication.
If you said something to a girl, for example, and she slaps you hard, she has responded to what you said.
Of course, you may say she communicated to you how she feels, but that's not always the case. Someone cooking a meal for you, does not necessarily communicate how they feel about you.
They may not like you at all.

Likewise, God did not communicate that he answered your prayer.
You believe that he did, and oftentimes that is the case. We believe.
Sometimes we are correct. Sometimes we are not... Like the man that found the $300.00 and believed that God answered his prayer, to be able to buy the galvanize sheet to repair his leaky roof. Only to hear that someone dropped the money and was searching desperately for it.
So he gave it to the owner, and...

I don't know how you feel about this, but this matter of praying for people to be healed often has serious backlash, on people's life.
Sadly, some people who adopt this strong belief that God healed their sickness, or that of someone else, when something terrible happens, even though they had prayed sincerely about this, they get upset with God, and say he did not answer their prayer.

 

[CoreyD]

It has nothing to do with me, but everything to do with whether Caiaphas understood what he was saying, let alone those who were listening to the words he spoke by the Spirit.

The Scripture doesn’t say one way or the other whether those listening understood what was said by God/Caiaphas; but even Elijah thought he was alone, like Simeon who knew the Christ would come in his lifetime, as well as Anna, and this before John the Baptist began preaching in the wilderness, or before a disciple was ever chosen ...

People are touched in different ways (according to the increase of Christ in them) or where they are at in the journey inwards) when they hear a word spoken from their local church (which 95% of the one's speaking (in lieu of God) have no clue to what their words mean to those who are listening to them), even though this is not by any means held to that ... though the scripture does not delve into this much (in a right out in the open fashion) … a voice comes from heaven , and the only one stated as recognizing whose voice it was is Jesus, even though he said it was for their sakes that it came … and we know the devil snatches the word away, when there is no understanding of the word …

Perception is everything ...

Comparing yourself with others is a carnal attribute … holding one above the other is as well, to the extent that Christ is included in this (for reason of the carnal minds of those the writer was addressing)… we are all one or we are not, there is no middle ground …

The story of Cornelius’s conversion depicts the whole gambit … as far as Peter was concerned (even after a vision (thrice) the gentiles were not in the picture (but thru a vision, a seed was planted), even though the scriptures (OT) state this as fact, and which (again) was known of Simeon, (most likely while Peter was still on his mother’s breast) … Peter's understanding was solidified by God in him with his encounter with a gentile (who was visited by an angel, who was not an apostle/disciple, and a gentile to boot ...) all to which Cornelius was not privy to before the arrival of Peter. This situation spoke to Peter, confirming what he was beginning by the communication of revelation to understand ...

... more then three pages ...

We are not talking about Peter.
We are talking about you, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh, Joseph Smith, and everyone else that claims God's angel visited them.
When you can raise the dead, we can talk about comparing you to Peter.
Until then, we just have your claim... obviously based on your presuppositions.

 

[Jerry N.]

The Revelation to John was the completion of scripture. So, nothing will be written after.
Neither the Book of Mormon, nor the Quran can be said to be inspired of God.

So, why do you not accept these, since you believe God sends angels to people today, since God has sent angels to His followers in New Testament times?

I studied The Book of Mormon and the Quran, but they don't conform to the teachings of the Bible.

You obviously are sincere about how you feel about this, but I want to encourage you to give serious thought to reconsidering your view on this Jerry.

We know from scriptures that Satan misleads many... even more so, now that he and his angels are living ight here on earth... up close and personal. Revelation 12:9, 12
We know from scriptures that people will believe the lie, and turn to false stories... listening to angels of Satan. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12; 2 Timothy 4:4; 1 Timothy 4:1

You seem to be suggesting that one should go by gut feeling or supposition, instead of knowing what the scriptures precisely say about God communicating with his followers at this time.
Are you of the view that Satan will not tell you what is in scripture, or tell you something that is true, till he's got you by the neck.... only he won't squeeze till he's ready?

Satan quoted scripture to Jesus Matthew 4:6, for one to think they can check scripture to find out if it was Satan's angel or God's that spoke to them, one would be underestimating Satan.
The scriptures used the expression, "ignorant of Satan's schemes, (or designs)". 2 Corinthians 2:11

The Bible says Satan has blinded people so that they do not see the truth. 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4
So, it is clear many don't understand what it means to transform himself into an angel of light.
You don't think that's talking about a physical change, do you?

I understand what you mean; however, if I remember correctly, we were discussing personal things that are not found in the Bible. Suppose we take a common story about angels. Parents are sitting by the bedside of a sick child, and they vaguely see a figure over the child. The next day the child is better. So the parents assume it was an angel. It may have been something else or their imagination, but they praise God for the child's recovery. I'm not going to tell them it wasn't an angel, it wouldn't seem right even if I don't believe them. When it comes to gut feelings, that is something else. Sometimes that is all we have. I have experienced situations where a gut feeling told me not to go someplace. Fortunately, the feeling was correct and I was saved from a dangerous situation. It is a bit like your conscious telling you what you are thinking about doing is wrong.

An answer to our prayer is a response more so than communication.
If you said something to a girl, for example, and she slaps you hard, she has responded to what you said.
Of course, you may say she communicated to you how she feels, but that's not always the case. Someone cooking a meal for you, does not necessarily communicate how they feel about you.
They may not like you at all.

Likewise, God did not communicate that he answered your prayer.
You believe that he did, and oftentimes that is the case. We believe.
Sometimes we are correct. Sometimes we are not... Like the man that found the $300.00 and believed that God answered his prayer, to be able to buy the galvanize sheet to repair his leaky roof. Only to hear that someone dropped the money and was searching desperately for it.
So he gave it to the owner, and...

I don't know how you feel about this, but this matter of praying for people to be healed often has serious backlash, on people's life.
Sadly, some people who adopt this strong belief that God healed their sickness, or that of someone else, when something terrible happens, even though they had prayed sincerely about this, they get upset with God, and say he did not answer their prayer.

God healing is more than communication, but communication is also included. Just like the slapping girl. When it comes to "backlash," it is a matter of trust and faith in God. He does whatever He wants, and we must accept it without getting upset. I've seen others get angry at God because He didn't do what they wanted, and it is a terrible thing that demonstrates a lack of faith.

Believing that God answered prayer when He actually didn't and thanking Him for it is better than not thanking Him at all. I'm not very good at it, but we should thank God for all good things and even some bad. We have a little animal hospital, and my wife and I always pray for their recovery; however, they often die and I thank God that He stopped the suffering.

There is also the problem that God is part of all things. You go to work, and bring the money home. Then, you go to the supermarket and buy good food. You cook it and thank God for it. God's hand goes all of the back to a thousand things that made it possible, but you did the work.

Of course they are not lying.
They have been visited by angels.
I'm saying they are not God's angels that visited them.
You do know God's angels are not the only angels, don't you?

One has to be careful about assuming that it was God's angels, but I believe that careful study of Scripture, prayer, and a little common sense can help to determine the truth. God is our father, and He wants good things for us. If we are not blinded by our own ego and foolishness, He will help us. If I hear voices in my head, the sensible thing to do is to assume there is something wrong with me not that it came from God. God won't be offended, because we are to test all things. People will be fooled by fallen angels, but we must always guard against it.

 

[CoreyD]

I studied The Book of Mormon and the Quran, but they don't conform to the teachings of the Bible.

So, what makes what you say different to them,
Why do you say what you say conforms with the Bible, when in fact it does not?
What about the Book of Mormon does not conform with the Bible, that is different to what you say?

I can think of a number of examples.
One of them, is being discussed here, and the book of Mormon says the very same thing you are saying.
So, how do you differentiate between the two?

I understand what you mean; however, if I remember correctly, we were discussing personal things that are not found in the Bible.

We were?
I was not aware of that.
This thread is not about personal things not found in the Bible.

It's against forum rules to derail a thread.
We are to Submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.

If a person wants to talk about personal things not found in the Bible, they should probably find a thread that allows them to say anything outside the Bible, without the need to support those claims.
This thread is in the subforum Christian Scriptures.

It requires either a study and exposition of specific scriptures, or a study of the Bible and scriptures.
I usually choose this subforum to stay focused on the scriptures, and avoid people making claims running with them, without feeling obligated to support those claims

So, anyone has the idea of derailing the thread, I would suggest they get rid of that idea.

Suppose we take a common story about angels. Parents are sitting by the bedside of a sick child, and they vaguely see a figure over the child. The next day the child is better. So the parents assume it was an angel. It may have been something else or their imagination, but they praise God for the child's recovery. I'm not going to tell them it wasn't an angel, it wouldn't seem right even if I don't believe them. When it comes to gut feelings, that is something else.

You are not hearing me for some reason.
You assume it is an angel of God, because you presume that an angel of Satan is not going to do a good deed for anyone. Isn't that so?

It is a fact that when something we pray for materializes, we praise God, but what happens when what we pray for does not materialize... do we praise God?
I make it a habit to pray "if it is God's will, let it be."
For example, when my mom was gravely ill, I prayed that if it be God's will that her life be extended..." She fell asleep in death.
I thank God that he heard my prayer, nonetheless, and thanked him for the hope of the resurrection,

So, someone tells you it's an angel of Satan. You deny it on what scriptural basis?

Sometimes that is all we have. I have experienced situations where a gut feeling told me not to go someplace. Fortunately, the feeling was correct and I was saved from a dangerous situation. It is a bit like your conscious telling you what you are thinking about doing is wrong.

Well, if you have a gut feeling about angels, I am not interested in that.
People are entitled to have gut feelings if they like, but I am not interested in debating such persons.
Such debates are never ending, because they have no objective evidence... just subjective opinions.

God healing is more than communication, but communication is also included. Just like the slapping girl.

That's an opinion I will not spend time arguing back and forth about.

When it comes to "backlash," it is a matter of trust and faith in God. He does whatever He wants, and we must accept it without getting upset. I've seen others get angry at God because He didn't do what they wanted, and it is a terrible thing that demonstrates a lack of faith.

On the contrary, it is a case of being misled into believing what a pastor says, because the pastor failed to use the scriptures rather than give his personal view.
Telling people to pray to be healed, or pray that others be healed, is not scriptural.

When people fell sick, it was either they would recover, or die.
During the time that Jesus and his apostles were on earth, people either brought their sick to Jesus, in order for them to be made well, or they were shocked out of their wits, to see their sick ones made well, when a miracle was performed.

The modern idea of praying for the sick to be healed, has not only had a backlash on those who believe their pastors, it has resulted in Christianity being made a mockery, when these "miracle" prayers fail, and those claims are debunked.
The so-called faith healing is the same.

The claim that it requires faith, is unscriptural also.
Just as Jesus healed all who were ailing, when they followed him... despite many of them not having faith, but tagging along to get a meal, or just see signs, or just as crowds also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those tormented by unclean spirits, and all of them were healed, those making such claims should be able to walk into a children's hospital, and heal all the children they say are so pure and innocent. Shouldn't they?

The reason they can't do that, is because they are going against what the scriptures say. Matthew 7:21-23
They are assuming that what they believe, must be true, but have they not failed to make correct application to the scriptures?

Believing that God answered prayer when He actually didn't and thanking Him for it is better than not thanking Him at all.

Okay.

I'm not very good at it, but we should thank God for all good things and even some bad.

Always give thanks, yes.
That is what the scriptures say.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 - Give thanks in every circumstance / everything, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
I agree.

We have a little animal hospital, and my wife and I always pray for their recovery; however, they often die and I thank God that He stopped the suffering.

It's good that you care for animals.
I'm sure you have a good heart, and you are sincere, but Jerry. God did not kill the poor animal. It succumbed to its injuries.

It's one thing to thank God. It's another to accuse him wrongfully, or attribute every outcome to God.
Everything that happens is not God or Satan.
Solomon said,

I again saw under the sun that the race is not to the swift and the battle is not to the mighty, and neither is bread to the wise nor riches to the discerning nor favor to men who know; for time and misfortune overtake them all.

Ecclesiastes 9:11

We live in a world where anything can happen that goes against what we want, until God makes things new.
This is what I meant by it being a case of being misled by pastors.
What we often hear in churches, is not true, but we adopt the view, and sooooooooooooooo many people believe without considering if the Bible says it.

This habit then permeates their life.
If I asked you to show me where in the Bible God committed euthanasia on an animal, I'm sure you would tell me, it's not there, but we can assume... i.e. have a gut feeling, and stick to it. Am I right?
Some people go as far as to say, it's no "kill cow". In other words, it's not that important.
However, Jerry, that is not true. Some people are just too lazy to be bothered about what is true or false, when it comes to God.

That is not the attitude Jesus had, nor encouraged.
Jesus said it is important to know his father John 17:3, and the truth about his father John 8:31, 32, because otherwise we miss out on worshipping the father acceptably. John 4:23, 24

There is also the problem that God is part of all things. You go to work, and bring the money home. Then, you go to the supermarket and buy good food. You cook it and thank God for it. God's hand goes all of the back to a thousand things that made it possible, but you did the work.

Give thanks for everything... even a mint that you put in your mouth.

One has to be careful about assuming that it was God's angels, but I believe that careful study of Scripture, prayer, and a little common sense can help to determine the truth. God is our father, and He wants good things for us. If we are not blinded by our own ego and foolishness, He will help us. If I hear voices in my head, the sensible thing to do is to assume there is something wrong with me not that it came from God. God won't be offended, because we are to test all things. People will be fooled by fallen angels, but we must always guard against it.

So, Jerry... Your mom is going on a vacation.
She tells you, 'John. I will contact you through "this secure app", and anything I send you will be through "this secure app". Only respond to "this secure app" and do not send anything to me, except through "this secure app".

You receive a message from your mom, through something other than "this secure app".
How do you carefully study this message and use a little common sense to help you determine the truth?

Jesus is going away. Jesus told us through the scriptures, how he will communicate with his followers.
You receive a message, that is not the way Jesus said he will communicate with his followers.

Please tell me how you have studied the scriptures, prayed, and used a little common sense to determine the truth, and still believe that Jesus sent the message that is not the way Jesus said he would communicate with his followers?

 

[Jerry N.]

So, what makes what you say different to them,
Why do you say what you say conforms with the Bible, when in fact it does not?
What about the Book of Mormon does not conform with the Bible, that is different to what you say?

I can think of a number of examples.
One of them, is being discussed here, and the book of Mormon says the very same thing you are saying.
So, how do you differentiate between the two?


We were?
I was not aware of that.
This thread is not about personal things not found in the Bible.

It's against forum rules to derail a thread.
We are to Submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.

If a person wants to talk about personal things not found in the Bible, they should probably find a thread that allows them to say anything outside the Bible, without the need to support those claims.
This thread is in the subforum Christian Scriptures.

It requires either a study and exposition of specific scriptures, or a study of the Bible and scriptures.
I usually choose this subforum to stay focused on the scriptures, and avoid people making claims running with them, without feeling obligated to support those claims

So, anyone has the idea of derailing the thread, I would suggest they get rid of that idea.


You are not hearing me for some reason.
You assume it is an angel of God, because you presume that an angel of Satan is not going to do a good deed for anyone. Isn't that so?

It is a fact that when something we pray for materializes, we praise God, but what happens when what we pray for does not materialize... do we praise God?
I make it a habit to pray "if it is God's will, let it be."
For example, when my mom was gravely ill, I prayed that if it be God's will that her life be extended..." She fell asleep in death.
I thank God that he heard my prayer, nonetheless, and thanked him for the hope of the resurrection,

So, someone tells you it's an angel of Satan. You deny it on what scriptural basis?


Well, if you have a gut feeling about angel, I am not interested in that.
People are entitled to have gut feelings if the like, but I am not interested in debating such persons.
Such debates are never ending, because they have no objective evidence... just subjective opinions.


That's an opinion I will not spend time arguing back and forth about.


On the contrary, it is a case of being misled into believing what a pastor says, because the pastor failed to use the scriptures rather than give his personal view.
Telling people to pray to be healed, or pray that others be healed, is not scriptural.

When people fell sick, it was either they would recover, or die.
During the time that Jesus and his apostles were on earth, people either brought their sick to Jesus, in order for them to be made well, or they were shocked out of their wits, to see their sick ones made well, when a miracle was performed.

The modern idea of praying for the sick to be healed, has not only had a backlash on those who believe their pastors, it has resulted in Christianity being made a mockery, when these "miracle" prayers fail, and those claims are debunked.
The so-called faith healing is the same.

The claim that it requires faith, is unscriptural also.
Just as Jesus healed all who were ailing, when they followed him... despite many of them not having faith, but tagging along to get a meal, or just see signs, or just as crowds also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those tormented by unclean spirits, and all of them were healed, those making such claims should be able to walk into a children's hospital, and heal all the children they say are so pure and innocent. Shouldn't they?

The reason they can't do that, is because they are going against what the scriptures say. Matthew 7:21-23
They are assuming that what they believe, must be true, but have they not failed to make correct application to the scriptures?


Okay.


Always give thanks, yes.
That is what the scriptures say.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 - Give thanks in every circumstance / everything, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
I agree.


It's good that you care for animals.
I'm sure you have a good heart, and you are sincere, but Jerry. God did not kill the poor animal. It succumbed to its injuries.

It's one thing to thank God. It's another to accuse him wrongfully, or attribute every outcome to God.
Everything that happens is not God or Satan.
Solomon said,

Ecclesiastes 9:11

We live in a world where anything can happen that goes against what we want, until God makes things new.
This is what I meant by it being a case of being misled by pastors.
What we often hear in churches, is not true, but we adopt the view, and sooooooooooooooo many people believe without considering if the Bible says it.

This habit then permeates their life.
If I asked you to show me where in the Bible God committed euthanasia, I'm sure you would tell me, it's not there, but we can assume... i.e. have a gut feeling, and stick to it. Am I right?
Some people go as far as to say, it's no "kill cow". In other words, it's not that important.
However, Jerry, that is not true. Some people are just too lazy to be bothered about what is true or false, when it comes to God.

That is not the attitude Jesus had, nor encouraged.
Jesus said it is important to know his father John 17:3, and the truth about his father John 8:31, 32, because otherwise we miss out on worshipping the father acceptably. John 4:23, 24


Give thanks for everything... even a mint that you put in your mouth.


So, Jerry... You mom is going on a vacation.
She tells you, 'John. I will contact you through "this secure app", and anything I send you will be through "this secure app". Only respond to "this secure app" and do not send anything to me, except through "this secure app".

You receive a message from your mom, through something other than "this secure app".
How do you carefully study this message and use a little common sense to help you determine the truth?

Jesus is going away. Jesus told us through the scriptures, how he will communicate with his followers.
You receive a message, that is not the way Jesus said he will communicate with his followers.

Please tell me how you have studied the Scripture, prayed, and used a little common sense to determine the truth, and still believe that Jesus sent the message that is not the way Jesus said he would communicate with his followers?

I guess we are not understanding each other. Are you saying that there are no more miracles? God no longer heals? I'll have to unpack your post more carefully tomorrow if I have a chance.

 

[CoreyD]

I guess we are not understanding each other.

I thoroughly understand you Jerry.
I don't see why you can't understand me, since I'm not speaking a foreign language, but what I am saying is simple enough for a child to understand.

Are you saying that there are no more miracles? God no longer heals? I'll have to unpack your post more carefully tomorrow if I have a chance.

Please do, and I will answer your question tomorrow if you do get that chance.

 

[Jerry N.]

So, what makes what you say different to them,
Why do you say what you say conforms with the Bible, when in fact it does not?
What about the Book of Mormon does not conform with the Bible, that is different to what you say?

I can think of a number of examples.
One of them, is being discussed here, and the book of Mormon says the very same thing you are saying.
So, how do you differentiate between the two?

Jesus and Satan are not brothers, and Jesus didn't give the Sermon on the Mount in South America.

So, anyone has the idea of derailing the thread, I would suggest they get rid of that idea.

Another poster was saying he was visited by angels.

On the contrary, it is a case of being misled into believing what a pastor says, because the pastor failed to use the scriptures rather than give his personal view.
Telling people to pray to be healed, or pray that others be healed, is not scriptural.

When people fell sick, it was either they would recover, or die.
During the time that Jesus and his apostles were on earth, people either brought their sick to Jesus, in order for them to be made well, or they were shocked out of their wits, to see their sick ones made well, when a miracle was performed.

The modern idea of praying for the sick to be healed, has not only had a backlash on those who believe their pastors, it has resulted in Christianity being made a mockery, when these "miracle" prayers fail, and those claims are debunked.
The so-called faith healing is the same.

The claim that it requires faith, is unscriptural also.
Just as Jesus healed all who were ailing, when they followed him... despite many of them not having faith, but tagging along to get a meal, or just see signs, or just as crowds also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those tormented by unclean spirits, and all of them were healed, those making such claims should be able to walk into a children's hospital, and heal all the children they say are so pure and innocent. Shouldn't they?

The reason they can't do that, is because they are going against what the scriptures say. Matthew 7:21-23
They are assuming that what they believe, must be true, but have they not failed to make correct application to the scriptures?

James 5:13-16: "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working."
You are not going to convince me that God doesn’t still heal. It happened to me and people dear to me. I have known doctors who have seen it. I’m not talking about some silly televangelist. It is rare and usually private and quiet. Sometimes God does miracles-- when He chooses and not always when we choose.

God did not kill the poor animal. It succumbed to its injuries.

I never wrote that God killed them. God knows the time of death for all creatures. I was just thankful it came when it did. You are reading into what I wrote.

So, Jerry... Your mom is going on a vacation.
She tells you, 'John. I will contact you through "this secure app", and anything I send you will be through "this secure app". Only respond to "this secure app" and do not send anything to me, except through "this secure app".

You receive a message from your mom, through something other than "this secure app".
How do you carefully study this message and use a little common sense to help you determine the truth?

I don't know what you are play at here, but common sense makes it obvious.

Please tell me how you have studied the scriptures, prayed, and used a little common sense to determine the truth, and still believe that Jesus sent the message that is not the way Jesus said he would communicate with his followers?

So you are saying that God can only communicate through the Holy Spirit, because Jesus said He would send Him to teach and to guide. That is limiting the workings of God. If He wants to send a unicorn to lead me out of a forest, He can do it. One method of communication doesn't exclude another.
By the way, thank you for the reply button help. I can fix computers, but I can't use them very well.